Now It Gets Interesting. Tommy's Dad Purchased A Bronco With Sasquatch Package.

[viper88]

Ahh

Do this in 5 years when the market is normal, and what does a used 5K SUV have to do with a new purchase? yes I guess if you have a 1 yr old Rubicon the trade as a % of MSRP is better verus a 1 yr old willys. So maybe if the market is TFUd in a year and he wants to dump it, maybe the Rubicon is better value.

He bought what he could afford and wanted.

I do think it is stupid comparing a 33K willys to a bronco with a sticker over 65K
About as dumb as comparing a V6 Mustang to a Hellcat

I looked up the numbers because there were post about building a Rubicon equivalent from a Sport for less money.

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[displayname]

A base Rubicon is the better buy then a base Willys with A/C in the long run.

Out of curiosity I ran the numbers for both a base Willys w/ A/C and a base Rubicon. A base Rubicon is actually a cheaper vehicle to buy and drive than a base Willys if you take depreciation into consideration. I am not taking into consideration the time value of money or financing interest. I also used msrp even though it is fairly easy to buy either for 4%-8% under invoice. You would actually make money on the base Rubicon if you take that into consideration.

A new base Rubicon has new msrp of $41,040. A new base Willys with A/C has a msrp of $33,935. KBB used values on a 2020 with 5K miles are $41,132 for the Rubicon and $30,344 for the Willys.

NEW MSRP
$41,040 Base Rubicon.
$33,935 Base Willys with A/C

$7105 difference in cost new.

KBB used values for 2020 with 5K miles
$41,132 Base Rubicon
$30,344 base Willys with A/C

Depreciation
-$92 Base Rubicon
-$3591 Base Willys with A/C

This is making a lot of assumptions.
- The buyer has the ability or willingness to afford an extra $7K on a vehicle
- The the buyer is going to sell in a year
- The buyer is only going to drive 5K miles in year
- That both vehicles are in fair condition (might not be considered so if off roading regularly)
- That the market is going to still be upside down on used vehicle prices in a year

That's a whole lot of ifs. Sure, if you happened to have purchased a Rubi in 2020 and sold it this year, you made out nicely. But if you're using this pricing model to justify stretching an extra $7K on your budget, you'll more than likely not make nearly as much back. A rubi will certainly sell faster. But if you never used any of those rubi features, $7K can can go a long way elsewhere. If you even have it to start with.

It's all personal choices that everyone has to make. But this pricing theory holding up into the future doesn't pain any type of realistic view into the future in my opinion.

 

[Sorbs]

 

[viper88]

This is making a lot of assumptions.
- The buyer has the ability or willingness to afford an extra $7K on a vehicle
- The the buyer is going to sell in a year
- The buyer is only going to drive 5K miles in year
- That both vehicles are in fair condition (might not be considered so if off roading regularly)
- That the market is going to still be upside down on used vehicle prices in a year

That's a whole lot of ifs. Sure, if you happened to have purchased a Rubi in 2020 and sold it this year, you made out nicely. But if you're using this pricing model to justify stretching an extra $7K on your budget, you'll more than likely not make nearly as much back. A rubi will certainly sell faster. But if you never used any of those rubi features, $7K can can go a long way elsewhere. If you even have it to start with.

It's all personal choices that everyone has to make. But this pricing theory holding up into the future doesn't pain any type of realistic view into the future in my opinion.

What I looked up is just a snap shot of msrp and resale values that are current. A 12 month or one year look. Anyone interested can research back as many years as they want.

I should have phrased it better. I was not really addressing the purchase by Tommy. I used his build as an example because others on this thread mentioned building up a Sport. I looked it up because there were a few post in this thread about building a Sport up to a Rubicon for less money.

The extra $7K for the Rubicon is not really $7K if you take into consideration you will get back a portion of the cost at resale. Assume 50% residual of $3500 for everything you get with a Rubicon. That's pretty great value. If you want it and can afford it. No matter how you look at it, buying a Rubicon from the start is way cheaper than trying to build one out of something else like a Sport. That was the point of my post.

 

[Jamrock]

A base Rubicon is actually a cheaper vehicle to buy and drive than a base Willys if you take depreciation into consideration. I am not taking into consideration the time value of money or financing interest. I also used msrp even though it is fairly easy to buy either for 4%-8% under invoice. You would actually make money on the base Rubicon if you take that into consideration.

I remember purchasing a shirt in a store during a sale. The salesperson said "You have saved $5 on that shirt. If you buy another you will save $10."

I guess I should have purchased 20 and saved $100. There are days when that extra $100 would have come in handy.

 

[omnitonic]

You should still be able to sell your F150 for a premium now.

That's what I figured, but I'm going to have to sell it for almost half what I expected if I want to sell it anytime soon. I already made the rounds and got offers from everybody.

 

[displayname]

What I looked up is just a snap shot of msrp and resale values that are current. A 12 month or one year look. Anyone interested can research back as many years as they want.

I should have phrased it better. I was not really addressing the purchase by Tommy. I used his build as an example because others on this thread mentioned building up a Sport. I looked it up because there were a few post in this thread about building a Sport up to a Rubicon for less money.

The extra $7K for the Rubicon is not really $7K if you take into consideration you will get back a portion of the cost at resale. Assume 50% residual of $3500 for everything you get with a Rubicon. That's pretty great value. If you want it and can afford it. No matter how you look at it, buying a Rubicon from the start is way cheaper than trying to build one out of something else like a Sport. That was the point of my post.

Ah, that makes sense and I totally agree. I thought you were going in a different direction. I totally agree, if you want the Rubicon features, getting it from the factory is the most price effective way to get there. I think the same of the new XR package.

I was leaning into the point that others have made that maybe most people don't need rubi, can could be saving a good chunk by purchasing features that they will use. But you're right, building a sport into a rubicon wouldn't financially make sense... regardless of resale. Now building a sport PAST a rubi (even bigger axels, regear, etc etc) that's where the sport might come into play again. But you're pretty deep into 4x4 if you're taking those extremes.

 

[Jamrock]

What I looked up is just a snap shot of msrp and resale values that are current. A 12 month or one year look. Anyone interested can research back as many years as they want.

I should have phrased it better. I was not really addressing the purchase by Tommy. I used his build as an example because others on this thread mentioned building up a Sport. I looked it up because there were a few post in this thread about building a Sport up to a Rubicon for less money.

The extra $7K for the Rubicon is not really $7K if you take into consideration you will get back a portion of the cost at resale. Assume 50% residual of $3500 for everything you get with a Rubicon. That's pretty great value. If you want it and can afford it. No matter how you look at it, buying a Rubicon from the start is way cheaper than trying to build one out of something else like a Sport. That was the point of my post.

If you want a Rubicon and you can afford it, go for it. It is the top of the line. From what I have seen, many on this forum have been working, saving and investing for a while and can afford some of the nicer things in life.

Not everyone is like this. Tommy is younger than many on the forum and has less years of work, savings and investment behind him. In time, he will be able to afford the extra $7k.

For now, he can meet his monthly payments and keep his credit score high. It is not always about the numbers. It is often about making the monthly payments on time.

Depreciation or no depreciation, he needs to make his monthly payments on time, even when unexpected expenses appear out of nowhere. His ability to buy his future home depends on it.

 

[Il Commandante]

Not surprised it was the Defender that did not make it home!

 

[viper88]

If you want a Rubicon and you can afford it, go for it. It is the top of the line. From what I have seen, many on this forum have been working, saving and investing for a while and can afford some of the nicer things in life.

Not everyone is like this. Tommy is younger than many on the forum and has less years of work, savings and investment behind him. In time, he will be able to afford the extra $7k.

For now, he can meet his monthly payments and keep his credit score high. It is not always about the numbers. It is often about making the monthly payments on time.

Depreciation or no depreciation, he needs to make his monthly payments on time, even when unexpected expenses appear out of nowhere. His ability to buy his future home depends on it.

The really great thing about Wranglers. There is something for every budget. I can't believe how many different drivetrains and configurations there are now. The product price range is $30K to probably over $80K now.

I agree with his statement that most people probably do not need the Rubicon's extra gear. People will want it for different reasons. It's no different than any other vehicle. How many sports cars actually see the track?

I like that he went for the Willys. Its one of my favorite models. I would have considered one if they were available when I bought my JLR. I hope they do some content that showcases how capable a much more affordable Wrangler is. I suspect they already have? He hinted at how easy his Willys got to the Defender when he rescued it.

The $7K extra for the Rubicon is a lot of money. It's also a great deal for what you get. There is definitely some residual value with the Rubicon. It does not really cost $7K to use the equipment. You will get back a good part of the $7K at resale. You can't build one out of a Sport for less. Plus the return on mods is very low. I would just buy the Rubicon if someone wanted the equipment and be done with it.

 

[Jamrock]

The Rubicon is the best option for someone who is going to spend a lot of time offroad. No question about it. Lockers are definitely superior to limited slip.

It is definitely cheaper to buy a basic Rubicon than it is to build up a Sport into an offroading machine. No doubts there.

I have seen members purchase Sport or Sahara models and then want to put on 37' tires. Not such a good idea without some other expensive changes.

However, not everyone is going to do serious offroading. Not everyone is willing or able to spend the additional money. FCA sells a whole lot of Sport, Sahara and Willys models for a reason.

 

[ThirtyOne]

The Rubicon is the best option for someone who is going to spend a lot of time offroad. No question about it. Lockers are definitely superior to limited slip.

It is definitely cheaper to buy a basic Rubicon than it is to build up a Sport into an offroading machine. No doubts there.

I have seen members purchase Sport or Sahara models and then want to put on 37' tires. Not such a good idea without some other expensive changes.

However, not everyone is going to do serious offroading. Not everyone is willing or able to spend the additional money. FCA sells a whole lot of Sport, Sahara and Willys models for a reason.

Truth

 

[sardog12]

The Rubicon is the best option for someone who is going to spend a lot of time offroad. No question about it. Lockers are definitely superior to limited slip.

It is definitely cheaper to buy a basic Rubicon than it is to build up a Sport into an offroading machine. No doubts there.

I have seen members purchase Sport or Sahara models and then want to put on 37' tires. Not such a good idea without some other expensive changes.

However, not everyone is going to do serious offroading. Not everyone is willing or able to spend the additional money. FCA sells a whole lot of Sport, Sahara and Willys models for a reason.

Despite what others would make you think and my owning a Rubicon, there is nothing at all lesser about wheeling any other model. In fact, I think too many people get hung up on "having to have a Rubicon to wheel properly" and don't realize that, while the lockers are great, learning how to drive a Jeep without them is infinitely better, imo. You become a better driver overall, being forced to look ahead more and choose better lines. Also, what happens when your locker fails? There is a whole new group who have learned how to wheel dependent on, what was for a long time, these extra enhancements. I am not looking forward to the new Bronco owners who are going to learn to be dependent on even more gizmos crippling their experience by telling them what to do to wheel.

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