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Not sure where to start so I guess I'll just say... Help?

AVGeek99

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I've had my Jeep 11 months today. I went over 20,000 miles today. I have had zero problems to date, until today. After a day of fun, my clutch appears to have issues, and it won't even turn over. Sorry for the long post, but I assume something I did today is causing, or at least contributing to my issue. Here's my day...

Today started out really fun. Went to 4-Fest MN, ran a bunch of trails. Played in the mud (pics below) and gravel pits where they had made some obstacles. Then later in the afternoon I started having some issues.

After playing in the mud we were on some other trails. I noticed the temp gauge was running warm. Until today I had never seen it go above normal. I monitored closely and it kept climbing so we got off the trail. We headed for the car wash, I was thinking maybe I got some mud in the radiator. On the way to the car wash, about six miles, the temp guage maxed out. It was maxed out for about 1.5 miles but we got to the car wash ok.

I washed the exterior spraying a lot of water into the radiator. Then I lifted the hod and there was mud everywhere, so I carefully cleaned the engine compartment careful not to directly spray electrical stuff. When I was done we headed back to 4-Fest. For the entire 6 miles the temp guage had it's normal reading. As soon as we got off the highway, driving slower through the OHV park, the temp started to climb again. Back to the car wash I went to clean the radiator from the inside.

At this point I remembered the actual coolant temp gauge. On the 6 mile trip back to the car wash it climbed to a max of 275. Hovered between 270 and 275 for the last 2 miles, but ran fine and didn't give any issues. I should make it clear that up to this point, the only problem was the overheating. Throughout all of this the Jeep ran fine with no dashlights, just the engine high temp warning anytime the coolant temp went above 255. We made it to the carwash and I cleaned the radiator from the inside this time.

Then we headed home, about 50 minutes. The whole way home I was keeping check on the coolant temp. For the most part hovered between 220 and 225. The warmest it got was 230, coolest was about 210. The fan was running as it should only turning off when it got below about 212 +/-. The temp guage never went beyond the normal reading, just under half.

On the way home I noticed the clutch got softer than normal, and it wouldn't go all the way to the floor like normal. It would stop about two inches from the floor, and would go further if I pressed really hard. Then I noticed it was getting more difficult to shift into gear. Downshifting when slowing down was a little easier, but when accelerating, 2nd through 5th were much more difficult than normal to engage.

We made it home fine, the Jeep ran great the whole way. Once home I figured I'd clean it a little better. I cleaned the under carriage. I also pulled the air filter off and moved the air intake out of the way so I could get at the radiator better to give it one final cleaning.

Once done I got into start it and put it in the garage... and nothing. All the electrical seems fine, but it doesn't even attempt to turn over. When I press the ignition button it's really kind of acting like I don't have the clutch depressed. One push to 'Acc', a second push to 'Run', third press turns it off. I have one foot on the brake, the other on the clutch as per usual, but it doesn't do anything, not even any clicks. I do notice that if I leave it in Run there is an audible highish pitched tone coming from the engine compartment. I think it's coming from the driver side back near the firewall. The tone only happens when in the ignition is in 'Run'. Doesn't do it in 'Acc'

For the night it is just sitting in the driveway. I'm hoping it will start in the morning.

Anyone have any ideas on what may be happening?
Jeep Wrangler JL Not sure where to start so I guess I'll just say...  Help? 20221001_1128592
Jeep Wrangler JL Not sure where to start so I guess I'll just say...  Help? 309257168_1802866440051937_8737264669698710431_n
Jeep Wrangler JL Not sure where to start so I guess I'll just say...  Help? 310021086_1802858770052704_766647763446418446_n
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mwilk012

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Well for one, you very likely permanently damaged the engine. 275 is absurdly hot.

If you really want to diagnose it yourself, you’re going to need a test light or volt meter. Start at the starter. If no power at starter when pressing the button, move on up the line.
 

bjm00se

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Your latest symptoms are consistent with clutch not being fully depressed - clutch feel, shifting hard, and finally - fail to start with clutch position sensor failing to register that the clutch is depressed.

Given the mud and gravel - there are two possible avenues -
1. Some kind of gunk physically blocking the clutch lever/actuator travel
2. air in the hydraulics, so the pedal isn't controlling the clutch operation as expected.

That's all I got.

EDIT and PS: I hate and avoid mud. For exactly reasons such as this.
 
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AVGeek99

AVGeek99

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Well for one, you very likely permanently damaged the engine. 275 is absurdly hot.

If you really want to diagnose it yourself, you’re going to need a test light or volt meter. Start at the starter. If no power at starter when pressing the button, move on up the line.
Agree, 275 is absurdly hot!! I think the engine is ok. It ran perfectly fine for an hour afterward.

Looks like I have something to do tomorrow.
 

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mwilk012

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Agree, 275 is absurdly hot!! I think the engine is ok. It ran perfectly fine for an hour afterward.

Looks like I have something to do tomorrow.
it sounds like your bell housing is packed full of mud. I’d put a water hose on it for an hour or so and let it flush out.
 

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My dad once taught me a trick when a temp gauge is rising and you’re on the road: turn the heat on in the car as high as it will go. It draws heat from the engine and will lower the temp. We just had that situation with my son’s TJ. Turned on the heat and the temp came down long enough to get to where we could buy some coolant and put it in reservoir. Not the most comfortable situation in SD heat, but saved the engine. Of course, that’s the nearly bullet-proof 4.0L in-line six and not much electronics, etc.
 
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AVGeek99

AVGeek99

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Your latest symptoms are consistent with clutch not being fully depressed - clutch feel, shifting hard, and finally - fail to start with clutch position sensor failing to register that the clutch is depressed.

Given the mud and gravel - there are two possible avenues -
1. Some kind of gunk physically blocking the clutch lever/actuator travel
2. air in the hydraulics, so the pedal isn't controlling the clutch operation as expected.

That's all I got.

EDIT and PS: I hate and avoid mud. For exactly reasons such as this.
I got down and looked inside by the clutch lever inside and there wasn't anything blocking it't travel. I did test it and it does roll freely with the clutch pedal depressed.

I'll look into the hydraulics.
 
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AVGeek99

AVGeek99

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Just curious, why did you drive the 2 miles with the temp gauge at 275? Why didn't you pull over and shut the Jeep off??
My dad once taught me a trick when a temp gauge is rising and you’re on the road: turn the heat on in the car as high as it will go. It draws heat from the engine and will lower the temp. We just had that situation with my son’s TJ. Turned on the heat and the temp came down long enough to get to where we could buy some coolant and put it in reservoir. Not the most comfortable situation in SD heat, but saved the engine. Of course, that’s the nearly bullet-proof 4.0L in-line six and not much electronics, etc.
Actually the second quote above jogged my memory. On my second trip to the car wash it was only at 275 for maybe 1/4. I took the first pullout I came to. I then did what @Morrepe mentioned and turned the heater on. That brought the temp down to about 255 for the last couple miles to the car wash.

On my first trip to the car wash the temp guage was maxed for about the last 1.5 miles. That may have been 270+.
 

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AVGeek99

AVGeek99

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AVGeek99

AVGeek99

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A 3.6 that had a real bad day. 5 years with no oil changes, radiator started leaking at some point during that period.
Yikes!!
Has your coolant level stayed steady throughout all of this?
When it was hot, when I got to the car wash the first time it was at or near the max line. When I was done cleaning it at home and the engine had fully cooled I think it was at or maybe a little below the large seam in the reservoir. I'll confirm tomorrow.
 

mwilk012

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Yikes!!

When it was hot, when I got to the car wash the first time it was at or near the max line. When I was done cleaning it at home and the engine had fully cooled I think it was at or maybe a little below the large seam in the reservoir. I'll confirm tomorrow.
That’s good. Disruption in flow of coolant is what really causes major damage.

I wouldn’t worry too much more about that part and just break out the volt meter and get to poking tomorrow.
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