No PHEV Wrangler Reveal at LA Auto Show 2019

Jeep-Noob

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I was hoping this was the week...but it looks like it's not happening. If the diesels were on dealer lots, I would probably be calling uncle. I was excited for the prospect of being able to run the HVAC all night on the battery. I can do this on the Tesla, and it would be perfect for camping in a wrangler / gladiator.

 

DocTwinkie

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Doc... Duh.
Current electric car offerings are chevette and Bentley with nothing in between. You’re either getting an econocar like a leaf for pushing 100k in a model x, epace, or etron. The one exception is a the model 3 which is essentially a nice Camry for 50+k
 


DocTwinkie

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Doc... Duh.
I’ll also add that I’d guess this puts the PHEV at least a year out. Probably a 2021 model at the earliest.
 

BearJewJonny

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Yea when we didn’t hear anything in the last few weeks I knew it was gonna be a no go. So fucking frustrating. Excited to see what this Tesla truck looks like. Maybe that’ll be an option.
 

DocTwinkie

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Doc... Duh.
Yea when we didn’t hear anything in the last few weeks I knew it was gonna be a no go. So fucking frustrating. Excited to see what this Tesla truck looks like. Maybe that’ll be an option.
Sure. That and Rivian... assuming you have 100k to burn.
 

BearJewJonny

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Haha don’t worry I don’t. The day I give in and just go buy a regular JL is the day it’ll come out I’m sure.
 


DocTwinkie

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Doc... Duh.
I pulled the trigger on a JL. I can buy two of them with money to spare for the price of a Rivian or Tesla. I want to go electric but the prices are just plain stupid. Your only choices are econobox or mortgage payment.
 

Karl_in_Chicago

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I was hoping this was the week...but it looks like it's not happening. If the diesels were on dealer lots, I would probably be calling uncle. I was excited for the prospect of being able to run the HVAC all night on the battery. I can do this on the Tesla, and it would be perfect for camping in a wrangler / gladiator.
Not owning an electric vehicle myself I'll defer to your actual experience . . . but is running HVAC all night off battery a realistic expectation for the PHEV Wrangler? Unless FCA has some radically improved powerplant they'll be releasing with this model I'd assume they'll be using some variant of the one currently found in the PHEV Pacifica. Like most PHEV's the Pacifica has a very limited range (~32 miles - actually better than many other PHEV's) on battery when compared to electric-only vehicles like the Tesla - which if it isn't *the* market leader in range is certainly among them. I'm not seeing how there's enough juice in the current Pacifica offering to power something as demanding as HVAC for ~8 hours. Again, no first-hand experience with electric vehicles but I do have experience with sailboats where aggressively managing every little bit of electricity is de riguer, and aside from mega-yachts nobody runs their HVAC overnight in a boat off battery only (and instead runs off a generator to the chagrin of people at moorings around them due to the noise).

Just my $0.02 . . . and I'm very interested to see the details when Jeep finally does introduce their PHEV variant. As an inner-city dweller it holds a lot of interest for me.
 
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OP

Jeep-Noob

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Not owning an electric vehicle myself I'll defer to your actual experience . . . but is running HVAC all night off battery a realistic expectation for the PHEV Wrangler? Unless FCA has some radically improved powerplant they'll be releasing with this model I'd assume they'll be using some variant of the one currently found in the PHEV Pacifica. Like most PHEV's the Pacifica has a very limited range (~32 miles - actually better than many other PHEV's) on battery when compared to electric-only vehicles like the Tesla - which if it isn't *the* market leader in range is certainly among them. I'm not seeing how there's enough juice in the current Pacifica offering to power something as demanding as HVAC for ~8 hours. Again, no first-hand experience with electric vehicles but I do have experience with sailboats where aggressively managing every little bit of electricity is de riguer, and aside from mega-yachts nobody runs their HVAC overnight in a boat off battery only (and instead runs off a generator to the chagrin of people at moorings around them due to the noise).

Just my $0.02 . . . and I'm very interested to see the details when Jeep finally does introduce their PHEV variant. As an inner-city dweller it holds a lot of interest for me.
Great question. I have some experience sleeping in my car. In the case of the Model S (75kWh) The battery can easily run the AC overnight. It's bizarrely efficient, and I would estimate it could be run 3-4 days straight. I have been told this is related to the high voltage AC compressor (400v) being very efficient. The Heater is much less efficient, but I still think it would be able to do 2 days at any temperature when I would be camping. Tesla uses a simple resistance heater in a liquid system, but some EVs use a small heat pump which is apparently much more efficient. Of course, in a pure EV, you can't completely deplete the battery because it's needed to get home...but a Hybrid wouldn't have that issue.

The federal tax situation makes most PHEV makers target around 16kWh. I think that would be able to provide HVAC for a night of camping.
 

DocTwinkie

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Doc... Duh.
Is electric cleaner? Yes given that we are moving more and more to a green power grid.

Is it more efficient? Yes. An electric motor is far more efficient at putting the energy in the batteries on the road as opposed to losing energy to heat and friction that ICE engines do.

BUT... lithium ion batteries are expensive and rely on lithium which is a rare earth element. They are heavy, prone to overheat, and most importantly they are piss poor in their energy density. Gasoline is 100x more energy dense than a battery.

At some point the next generation of battery will happen. A battery that is as energy dense as gas, doesn’t use rare elements, and is cheaper to produce. When that happens the ICE is done. You’ll have the same energy to weight as gas and a far more efficient and simple drivetrain that is far cleaner.

We aren’t there yet though. Lithium ion means you get the equivalent of an ICE car for double the price with a lot of trade offs. I was really hoping to join the electric route and I absolutely will once it’s feasible. But we just aren’t there yet.
 

Toycrusher

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Is electric cleaner? Yes given that we are moving more and more to a green power grid.

Is it more efficient? Yes. An electric motor is far more efficient at putting the energy in the batteries on the road as opposed to losing energy to heat and friction that ICE engines do.

BUT... lithium ion batteries are expensive and rely on lithium which is a rare earth element. They are heavy, prone to overheat, and most importantly they are piss poor in their energy density. Gasoline is 100x more energy dense than a battery.

At some point the next generation of battery will happen. A battery that is as energy dense as gas, doesn’t use rare elements, and is cheaper to produce. When that happens the ICE is done. You’ll have the same energy to weight as gas and a far more efficient and simple drivetrain that is far cleaner.

We aren’t there yet though. Lithium ion means you get the equivalent of an ICE car for double the price with a lot of trade offs. I was really hoping to join the electric route and I absolutely will once it’s feasible. But we just aren’t there yet.
Well put. The issue is, that next "battery breakthrough" is not likely to happen, ever. Same could be said for anti-gravity thrusters. They would be a great solution to all kinds of problems but you can hardly bet the farm on ever seeing them.

 

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