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_olllllllo_

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I will if the stock one starts to slip, but I don't really have any problem with the stock dual mass flywheel/twin disk clutch setup. By the way, south bend has some clutches for this platform too. They make great stuff.
When the stock clutch's life comes to an end I will replace it with a South Bend version.
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_olllllllo_

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So… this is why I don’t actually have a problem with manual transmission owners (or two door owners for that matter) shaming automatic owners (and four door owners).

I fall in both camps (I own a manual transmission 2 door Rubicon). And in real life, and generally on these forums, I won’t begrudge any individual for getting an automatic jeep or a four door jeep. Tons of my friends fall in to this category.

The problem is that when ALL OF YOU buy automatic, four door Jeeps, eventually I won’t be able to buy the jeep I want. And that’s super unfortunate.

So in the coming decades I’m going to be a little (read: a lot) salty as I’m forced to maintain older, manual transmission, ICE-powered vehicles at exponentially increasing costs while everyone around me sits in their self driving, electric transporto-pods.
My long-term plan is to convert my JLUR with MT to electric once the batteries mature and solid state is available (half the weight of cell or pouches and charging in 10 minutes) and axial flux motors (current radial flux motors are 150-year old tech) can be dropped in. See the Magneto and Magneto 2 concept vehicles from Jeep at EJS the last two years. I like to drive and although the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are good vehicles, they are simply this generations Prius. They are higher-tech commuter vehicles with spartan interiors. I have no interest in Full Self Driving and with my MT I tell people my Jeep is FSD level zero .... I do everything include shift, because I love to drive.
 

Ratbert

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I find it nigh impossible to stall in 4lo as well
It happened quite a bit to me. And yes, I'm thinking that I've been driving manuals for longer than most people here have been alive.

There's a possibility, of course, that there was something wrong with mine. My experiences seem to differ dramatically from that of others.
 

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It happened quite a bit to me. And yes, I'm thinking that I've been driving manuals for longer than most people here have been alive.

There's a possibility, of course, that there was something wrong with mine. My experiences seem to differ dramatically from that of others.
I don't know. I don't have any issues stalling in low or high. But in low, I'd have to try very hard to make it stall. It'll pull even if the e-brake is up on a hill, without stalling, with no throttle input.

Last time I was out at Rausch Creek, there were two other manuals with us, and maybe 4 automatics. None of us had any issues stalling (obviously the automatics didn't), so yours could have been a vehicle issue. In low range with the 4:1 TC, it feels like a mountain goat. It'll go up and over anything. I mostly start in 2nd gear in 4lo, unless it's extremely steep, or I need to go extremely slow.

But I'm also one of those people who has never owned or really driven an automatic. I don't have anything against them. I won't say anything bad about them. But, I'm more comfortable in a manual in just about any situation. The only automatics I've ever driven were borrowed or rentals. Hopefully this one holds me over until I go full electric.
 
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_olllllllo_

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I don't know. I don't have any issues stalling in low or high. But in low, I'd have to try very hard. It'll pull even if the e-brake is up on a hill, without stalling, with no throttle input.

Last time I was out at Rausch Creek, there were two other manuals with us, and maybe 4 automatics. None of us had any issues stalling (obviously the automatics didn't), so yours could have been a vehicle issue. In low range with the 4:1 TC, it feels like a mountain goat. It'll go up and over anything. I mostly start in 2nd gear in 4lo, unless it's extremely steep, or I need to go extremely slow.

But I'm also one of those people who has never owned or really driven an automatic. I don't have anything against them. I won't say anything bad about them. But, I'm more comfortable in a manual in just about any situation. The only automatics I've ever driven were borrowed or rentals. Hopefully this one holds me over until I go full electric.
I switched to 5.13s and mine is crazy at climbing and descending now. I also start in 2nd most of the time, but will use 1st when I am climbing steep or very technical sections or going down loose and steep trails. The autos behind me complain they are dragging their brakes and I never touch mine. I tell them to stop and wait for me to descend further before coming up behind me. I swear I am doing .5 mph downhill and it is so controlled.
 

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This might sound odd to a lot of you but in my case after 25 years of driving all the hard trails in a built CJ-7 then in an LJ Rubicon, I have absolutely zero experience driving an automatic equipped Jeep off road. None, nada. And frankly it scares me. I can't imagine having to ride the brakes rockcrawling downhill, for example, yet you guys are able to do it. Yeah, I've heard everyone complaining about how bad the 6-spd is in the new JL's on pavement, but I'll make that tradeoff. Someday I'll get a chance to either ride with someone in an automatic or maybe even drive one, but in my entire life I have never experienced rockcrawling in a slushbox.

Full disclosure: my daily driver is a Subaru Outback (don't hate me, I live in Colorado) and I have driven that on dirt roads. But it ain't the same...
 

Ratbert

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This might sound odd to a lot of you but in my case after 25 years of driving all the hard trails in a built CJ-7 then in an LJ Rubicon, I have absolutely zero experience driving an automatic equipped Jeep off road. None, nada. And frankly it scares me. I can't imagine having to ride the brakes rockcrawling downhill, for example, yet you guys are able to do it. Yeah, I've heard everyone complaining about how bad the 6-spd is in the new JL's on pavement, but I'll make that tradeoff. Someday I'll get a chance to either ride with someone in an automatic or maybe even drive one, but in my entire life I have never experienced rockcrawling in a slushbox.

Full disclosure: my daily driver is a Subaru Outback (don't hate me, I live in Colorado) and I have driven that on dirt roads. But it ain't the same...
Learning how to rock crawl with an automatic should be interesting. Feet on both the gas and the brake at the same time is supposed to be the preferred technique. We'll see when I eventually get my diesel.
 

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Learning how to rock crawl with an automatic should be interesting. Feet on both the gas and the brake at the same time is supposed to be the preferred technique. We'll see when I eventually get my diesel.
I think the "off-road" cruise control feature should make it a cinch. Especially with the diesel torque, you shouldn't have any issues. The diesel drivers I've wheeled with (mostly 3.0 gladiators) love them off road.
 

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I took training at Overland Expo last October with 7P Overland and many of the instructors were former Camel Trophy participants. In 4-Lo with the manual they had me use the brakes with no gas and you have to stand on the brakes to stall the engine on level ground. It was very informative. I stalled last weekend at Jeep Jamboree, but realized I was in second gear instead of first. It has been quite a while since I have stalled, of course I have over 74,000 miles on my Jeep so I should have a better feel for the clutch.

Interesting. This is my first venture into off-roading as well. I do want to do a class. Just havent had a chance. Work single dad. Crazy schedule. I still have a ton to learn and when i do get off road i experiment w 4 low and high and i def agree 4low is awesome.
 

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So why not get a different clutch? My plan is to teach my wife to drive a stick on the stock clutch before I invest in a Centerforce Dual Friction clutch. The kit through Quadratech looks like it replaces the slave cylinder as well.
I followed the initial centerforce debacle on this forum and am glad i waited. Hadnt really seen if anyone got a new one and if they got it straightened out. Same thing w the other company mentioned later in this post. At the time they didnt have one out. Plus single dad w kid. So priority is bills fun then build jeep lol.
 

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I followed the initial centerforce debacle on this forum and am glad i waited. Hadnt really seen if anyone got a new one and if they got it straightened out. Same thing w the other company mentioned later in this post. At the time they didnt have one out. Plus single dad w kid. So priority is bills fun then build jeep lol.
Oh, I totally get it. I guess I'm just thinking a clutch kit is $1800, an automatic is $2500. I'd rather save $700 and have what I want. As far as the Centerforce debacle, I got a response from them today:

"Hello Michael,

In regard to the kits for the Jeep JL there were some engineering changes and we are currently still moving forward with the kits. However, it looks like we will not be shipping any new orders until July/August."
 

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Learning how to rock crawl with an automatic should be interesting. Feet on both the gas and the brake at the same time is supposed to be the preferred technique. We'll see when I eventually get my diesel.
Frankly I find the Auto much easier off-road because it doesn't stall. Of course, I didn't do the two foot driving much, it was usually not much different than a stick using the right foot for brake and gas and the right hand for handbreak.

Where I really appreciate the stick is in mud and water. I find they are far less prone to issues than autos (at least of past years like the AW4).
 

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I'm not sure how I feel about teaching my wife on mine. I only have 200 miles at the moment and I figure if I'm having hiccups here and there I don't want her destroying the new one lol.

I had my JKU for 10 years and we tried a few times to teach her but she got frustrated. I had a JK prior that we had just started dating so teaching wasn't really an option at that point.
My suggestion, if you can find someplace muddy or sandy, or even a grassy area after a rain or heavy dew, it makes it a lot easier and less frustration. There is less stalling from popping the clutch because the tires just spin, and once they find the friction point, the Jeep doesn't even need gas to get rolling. At least that's been my past experience.

But I really want the Centerforce clutch kit, so I just need this clutch to hold me over till they start shipping and there are a few beta testers out there. =)
 

yeti1951

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Does anyone know if the manual will return for the 2023 model year was hoping to order a manual two door Rubicon?
 

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I switched to 5.13s and mine is crazy at climbing and descending now. I also start in 2nd most of the time, but will use 1st when I am climbing steep or very technical sections or going down loose and steep trails. The autos behind me complain they are dragging their brakes and I never touch mine. I tell them to stop and wait for me to descend further before coming up behind me. I swear I am doing .5 mph downhill and it is so controlled.
I think you said before you are on 35"s. I am on 33"s with the 4.88s and my experience seems to be the same. There is no acceleration needed in 1st or reverse in 2/4 hi. I treat it as a 3spd with 2 overdrives. Unless I am on a hill (>20deg or so), I run 2>3>4>6. 5th is reserved for cruising at 45 or so. As I mentioned before, I think the gearing has a lot to do with it, but it should be also noted that I am driving a 2dr with half doors and the top off for most of my experience. I didn't notice much difference with the top/doors on, however. I also typically drive between 3k-6k in elevation. Most of my manual experience is with trucks and my joy with the manual may also completely depend on my driving style. There is also the possibility that Stellantis/FCA/Jeep/Whomever has fixed some issues before I got my 2022.
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