NHTSA Development - petition for frame welds investigation

Avl2294

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
66
Reaction score
60
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara 2014 JKU Sahara 2004 Dodge Viper
Well I'm OK then because you posted my picture and that's what 80% of my welds look like. :)
What are the chances...in that case yeah, you're fine. I'd still hit the welds with a wire brush real quick and get some paint on them. That rust will eventually spread like cancer.



Advertisement



 

mgroeger

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
3,003
Reaction score
3,444
Location
Apex, NC
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Saharicon "Mud Muffin" (Wife), 2018 JLUR "Fat Ninja" (Me)
Occupation
I make microchips for a living.
Vehicle Showcase
1
What are the chances...in that case yeah, you're fine. I'd still hit the welds with a wire brush real quick and get some paint on them. That rust will eventually spread like cancer.
That's the weird thing it really isn't rust. I have this great rust converter, it turns rust black and I sprayed it on there and nothing. That's why in that picture it looks glossy. I'll keep my eye on it.
 

Avl2294

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
66
Reaction score
60
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara 2014 JKU Sahara 2004 Dodge Viper
That's the weird thing it really isn't rust. I have this great rust converter, it turns rust black and I sprayed it on there and nothing. That's why in that picture it looks glossy. I'll keep my eye on it.
Sometimes if you don't clean the steel well enough and you don't have quite enough shielding gas, some silica(essentially glass) will rise to the surface of the weld. though I've NEVER seen that much silica on a weld.
silica.jpg
 

NCJeepn73

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
173
Reaction score
237
Location
North Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Rubicon JLU, Bld date: 2/2018
Occupation
Technical SEO & Web Development
Sometimes if you don't clean the steel well enough and you don't have quite enough shielding gas, some silica(essentially glass) will rise to the surface of the weld. though I've NEVER seen that much silica on a weld.
silica.jpg
@Avl2294

So, the bronze-ish/gold color shown in these welds in the pics attached is silica?

Thanks

20180712_191045.jpg


20180715_153020.jpg
 

Avl2294

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
66
Reaction score
60
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara 2014 JKU Sahara 2004 Dodge Viper
@Avl2294

So, the bronze-ish/gold color shown in these welds in the pics attached is silica?

Thanks

20180712_191045.jpg


20180715_153020.jpg
It looks like it. Mgroegers Jeep is OK...yours on the other hand, yours are properly bad welds. The red arrow shows the weld that basically hasn't penetrated the frame at all, and the yellow shows welds full of porosity(resulting in a VERY weak weld). I would feel comfortable saying that yours isn't safe to drive.
bad welds.jpg
bad welds2.jpg
 

NavyVet1959

Banned
First Name
OldFart
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Messages
1,265
Reaction score
1,131
Location
Texas, ya'll
Vehicle(s)
XJ (sold), WJ (sold), Ram 1500 QC 4x4 (sold 2018.06.07), Wrangler JL Sport 2-door (ordered 2018.06.08)
Occupation
Retired engineer (NASA, aerospace, DoD); ex-Navy
Vehicle Showcase
1
This is very basic stuff... There's no excuse for not getting this right...
 

NCJeepn73

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
173
Reaction score
237
Location
North Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Rubicon JLU, Bld date: 2/2018
Occupation
Technical SEO & Web Development
It looks like it. Mgroegers Jeep is OK...yours on the other hand, yours are properly bad welds. The red arrow shows the weld that basically hasn't penetrated the frame at all, and the yellow shows welds full of porosity(resulting in a VERY weak weld). I would feel comfortable saying that yours isn't safe to drive.
bad welds.jpg
bad welds2.jpg
@Avl2294 & @Capt-Zoom

That's what I've been told by several auto weld professionals who have a combined 43 years of experience and numerous certificates and who has also inspected the welds on the Jeep.

UPDATE (07-25-18): I have been in contact as of this morning with another representative higher up from within Chrysler. They are having me set up an appt with the dealership service dept (which I've set up for Monday next week) to get the steering TSB performed to hopefully improve the loose steering and Chrysler is also sending out FCA technicians to inspect the welds while the vehicle is there. I'll be provided a rental.

I don't see any welder in any country, and with a variety of training and/or certificates, saying these welds look even remotely safe or non-defective. But I'll know more probably by Tuesday.
 

beachbumm78

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kristy
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
305
Reaction score
328
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicle(s)
2019 Jeep Rubicon (ordered)
Occupation
Athletic trainer & Massage therapist
@Avl2294 & @Capt-Zoom

That's what I've been told by several auto weld professionals who have a combined 43 years of experience and numerous certificates and who has also inspected the welds on the Jeep.

UPDATE (07-25-18): I have been in contact as of this morning with another representative higher up from within Chrysler. They are having me set up an appt with the dealership service dept (which I've set up for Monday next week) to get the steering TSB performed to hopefully improve the loose steering and Chrysler is also sending out FCA technicians to inspect the welds while the vehicle is there. I'll be provided a rental.

I don't see any welder in any country, and with a variety of training and/or certificates, saying these welds look even remotely safe or non-defective. But I'll know more probably by Tuesday.
As a soon to be Jeep owner...thanks for taking the time to keep us updated on this!
 

Jeep_Dude

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
15
Reaction score
14
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JKU
Sometimes if you don't clean the steel well enough and you don't have quite enough shielding gas, some silica(essentially glass) will rise to the surface of the weld. though I've NEVER seen that much silica on a weld.
silica.jpg
Nice looking weld there. Next time try welding with some metal core weld wire and see how more silica is on the surface of the weld. Then maybe you will understand what is going on at that factory.
 

Avl2294

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
66
Reaction score
60
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara 2014 JKU Sahara 2004 Dodge Viper
Nice looking weld there. Next time try welding with some metal core weld wire and see how more silica is on the surface of the weld. Then maybe you will understand what is going on at that factory.
I don't weld with metal cored wire...never have, no matter what wire they're using there's no excuse for the issues people are having. The bad welds are a disgrace and I have no idea how the frames got through with those welds, and those frame welds that weren't properly prepped for paint, They should've put a few guys(or girls) on the line with some pneumatic needle scalers or something chipping the welds before paint. BUT, they didn't. Hopefully they have fixed these issues on the line. They will make it right at the end of the day.
 

Avl2294

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
66
Reaction score
60
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara 2014 JKU Sahara 2004 Dodge Viper
Nice looking weld there. Next time try welding with some metal core weld wire and see how more silica is on the surface of the weld. Then maybe you will understand what is going on at that factory.
But you are absolutely correct. FARRR more "silicon islands" come to the surface of welds done with metal cored wire as opposed to using solid GMAW wire. All that fact tells me is they should've known to remove the silicon.
 

NCJeepn73

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
173
Reaction score
237
Location
North Carolina
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Rubicon JLU, Bld date: 2/2018
Occupation
Technical SEO & Web Development
So, got an update today on my JLR that's been at the dealership since Monday (4 days now). The service advisor and a representative from FCA have been in communication with each other and with me a few times this week.

The welds are so bad on my Jeep that they have forwarded the pictures to whomever at FCA that manages stuff like this and they have decided to send an FCA "crew" (at least a couple of FCA technicians) out to inspect the welds and reweld problem areas. The current bad problem areas are the front track bar bracket weld and the rear sway bar welds. Those two areas of welds are pretty horrible, as I've shown in several threads here in the forums. But just to iterate again, I've attached the front track bar outer weld pic below.

So, I'm in a rental (Durango) provided by the dealership now and may be until sometime next week, or until who knows how long.

I'll update once I know more. If they do decide to just reweld the known problem areas I will have them re-inspected by my own certified welder. I may even see if my welder will go with me to pick up the vehicle. Also, I don't plan on taking the vehicle if the reweld look any bit suspicious or if they don't look rock solid.

This all sucks. I may also ask for a reimbursement for my monthly payment at the very least. I'm sure that will go smoothly. :headbang:

20180712_191110.jpg
 

ALRUI

Well-Known Member
First Name
Arnold
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
312
Reaction score
100
Location
Murphy, NC
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara, 2003 F150 S-Crew FX4, Others
So the picture with the white plastic "T" is good? A tad confused here.
 

old8tora

Banned
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
2,339
Reaction score
998
Location
Cali
Vehicle(s)
2016 JK Sport
So, got an update today on my JLR that's been at the dealership since Monday (4 days now). The service advisor and a representative from FCA have been in communication with each other and with me a few times this week.

The welds are so bad on my Jeep that they have forwarded the pictures to whomever at FCA that manages stuff like this and they have decided to send an FCA "crew" (at least a couple of FCA technicians) out to inspect the welds and reweld problem areas. The current bad problem areas are the front track bar bracket weld and the rear sway bar welds. Those two areas of welds are pretty horrible, as I've shown in several threads here in the forums. But just to iterate again, I've attached the front track bar outer weld pic below.

So, I'm in a rental (Durango) provided by the dealership now and may be until sometime next week, or until who knows how long.

I'll update once I know more. If they do decide to just reweld the known problem areas I will have them re-inspected by my own certified welder. I may even see if my welder will go with me to pick up the vehicle. Also, I don't plan on taking the vehicle if the reweld look any bit suspicious or if they don't look rock solid.

This all sucks. I may also ask for a reimbursement for my monthly payment at the very least. I'm sure that will go smoothly. :headbang:
They will tell you " no reimbursement until you go to welding school , because it's a Jeep thing ."
 











Top