Next-Gen Uconnect 5 Infotainment System Gains Wireless CarPlay and More

[wired]

Does it have aux switch settings?

Yes. Retains all 8.4 abilities (except compass on small display above steering) and adds stuff like ability to change tire pressure settings, ESS memory, etc

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[angustx]

Yes. Retains all 8.4 abilities (except compass on small display above steering) and adds stuff like ability to change tire pressure settings, ESS memory, etc

If it had built in 4g/5g capability without leveraging a phone, I would be all in. Given how cheap the 4g/5g capabilities are, I don’t understand why they don’t at least offer a module.

 

[Big Red Rubicon]

Yeah, my 8.4 just went nuts a few weeks ago and I'm replacing with the heigh10. Lose no functionality from the 8.4 (except compass in center display-- shows in main) and adds some taser like functionality (persistent ESS off, for example) as well as better audio, better interface etc.

Awesome. I would do similar but I'm under warranty and until that goes away it's going to be Jeeps problem. I'm just the pain in the ass that will annoy them until it's fixed.

 

[mike.g]

When UConnect 5 is out, wouldn't it be possible to replace the current UConnect 4 in a JL? Like replacing the hardware? If you can install aftermarket audio system, what would hold you back to do a full upgrade?

 

[Arterius2]

If it had built in 4g/5g capability without leveraging a phone, I would be all in. Given how cheap the 4g/5g capabilities are, I don’t understand why they don’t at least offer a module.

The old uconnect already has 4g/5g capability

 

[pablo_max3045]

If it had built in 4g/5g capability without leveraging a phone, I would be all in. Given how cheap the 4g/5g capabilities are, I don’t understand why they don’t at least offer a module.

because it's pretty expensive to add a transmitter to a product that requires world wide type approvals.
I am currently certifying a 5G radio for the automotive world.. just the radio, which will get placed into a black box like the "brains" for an infotainment unit which must also get approvals. Even with the super, duper COVID discount, it's still over 4 million € for US/Canada and Europe. That's only the certifications... you also have to pay the engineers who designed it, managers, sales, PMs and all the rest, plus the ODM to build the things. If you have a lower volume Vehicle, it would be hard to spread that cost.

 

[angustx]

The old uconnect already has 4g/5g capability

Yes but the heigh10 does not.

 

[angustx]

because it's pretty expensive to add a transmitter to a product that requires world wide type approvals.
I am currently certifying a 5G radio for the automotive world.. just the radio, which will get placed into a black box like the "brains" for an infotainment unit which must also get approvals. Even with the super, duper COVID discount, it's still over 4 million € for US/Canada and Europe. That's only the certifications... you also have to pay the engineers who designed it, managers, sales, PMs and all the rest, plus the ODM to build the things. If you have a lower volume Vehicle, it would be hard to spread that cost.

For OEM sales of new tech, tier one suppliers, and even major aftermarket brands, sure it adds significant cost. For third party, smaller companies in the aftermarket space, they aren’t pursuing certification anywhere so why would they if they drop a cellular modem in?

 

[pablo_max3045]

For OEM sales of new tech, tier one suppliers, and even major aftermarket brands, sure it adds significant cost. For third party, smaller companies in the aftermarket space, they aren’t pursuing certification anywhere so why would they if they drop a cellular modem in?

Just as a FYI... Type certifications are not a "fun" extra to get. They are a legal requirement.
A head unit in the EU as an example is required to be CE marked. So, this means applying all the RED standards for Radio, EMC, Electrical safety and being eMarked. It's not optional. If you are using a pre-certified module, you can avoid the radio testing, which is a lot, but the other tests are applicable to the end product and cannot be re-used. It doesnt matter if you are talking about 5G NR or Bluetooth 1.0. How old the tech is has no impact on whether or not certification is needed.
Having worked in this field for 20 years, there is no F'ing way I would connect anything to my CAN bus that has not been eMarked.
I have seen even USB cigarette adapter by a very major brand that had so much noise that it physically damaged the CAN BUS testing system.
If there is 5G, that means they also need to have a notified body review everything and give an expert opinion since the standards for the EU are not yet harmonized.
There are avoidable things in the EU, like GCF certification which is for cellular radios. Though, if your product is stocked by a carrier, you have no choice. There we are talking 10 of thousands of tests.

Anyhow... yeah.. if a product you are using is not certified for CE, it was sold to you illegally.


In the US, if you have a cellular radio you MUST have PTCRB certification, unless you are using sprint..then they require GCF.
If you have a non licensed radio like Bluetooth, and you are using a module, it's pretty easy. Just some part 15b and some other small tests. Nothing else. Like 10k USD maybe. Same for Canada.
If it can only be used in the car, you dont even need 15b. Same for medical devices, ironically. In the US, you have UL safety testing, but that is a market requirement, not a legal one.

 

[angustx]

Just as a FYI... Type certifications are not a "fun" extra to get. They are a legal requirement.
A head unit in the EU as an example is required to be CE marked. So, this means applying all the RED standards for Radio, EMC, Electrical safety and being eMarked. It's not optional. If you are using a pre-certified module, you can avoid the radio testing, which is a lot, but the other tests are applicable to the end product and cannot be re-used. It doesnt matter if you are talking about 5G NR or Bluetooth 1.0. How old the tech is has no impact on whether or not certification is needed.
Having worked in this field for 20 years, there is no F'ing way I would connect anything to my CAN bus that has not been eMarked.
I have seen even USB cigarette adapter by a very major brand that had so much noise that it physically damaged the CAN BUS testing system.
If there is 5G, that means they also need to have a notified body review everything and give an expert opinion since the standards for the EU are not yet harmonized.
There are avoidable things in the EU, like GCF certification which is for cellular radios. Though, if your product is stocked by a carrier, you have no choice. There we are talking 10 of thousands of tests.

Anyhow... yeah.. if a product you are using is not certified for CE, it was sold to you illegally.


In the US, if you have a cellular radio you MUST have PTCRB certification, unless you are using sprint..then they require GCF.
If you have a non licensed radio like Bluetooth, and you are using a module, it's pretty easy. Just some part 15b and some other small tests. Nothing else. Like 10k USD maybe. Same for Canada.
If it can only be used in the car, you dont even need 15b. Same for medical devices, ironically. In the US, you have UL safety testing, but that is a market requirement, not a legal one.

Any cellular module the head unit manufacturer would use would already have PTCRB. Head unit manufacturers are not designing or fabbing their own hardware or cellular modem. They are integrating existing parts or modules from OEMs and designing the applications that run on top of the android ecosystem.

When I was speaking about certification, I was speaking about automotive certifications as presumably any hardware used by the head unit manufacturer already has basic industry certifications outside of automotive. It is relatively inexpensive to integrate a 3g/4g modem from gemalto (cinterion) as an example.

 

[pablo_max3045]

Any cellular module the head unit manufacturer would use would already have PTCRB. Head unit manufacturers are not designing or fabbing their own hardware or cellular modem. They are integrating existing parts or modules from OEMs and designing the applications that run on top of the android ecosystem.

When I was speaking about certification, I was speaking about automotive certifications as presumably any hardware used by the head unit manufacturer already has basic industry certifications outside of automotive. It is relatively inexpensive to integrate a 3g/4g modem from gemalto (contention) as an example.

Even if the module has PTCRB, this is only relevant so far as determining which tests are applicable. An "integrator" as they are call in the PTCRB world, still must get PTCRB certification in order to operate on a US carrier. Otherwise they (the carriers) will blacklist the IMEI range.
They just have a limited scope of testing which is depending on where the antenna is, how long the cable it and the MMI of the device as well as some other factors. Say the head unit has a built in antenna, that means OTA is also required. Only in the free space condition though. But, if you add 5G and support a lot of carrier aggregation bands as well EN-DC, the cost will ramp up a lot. If you have WiFi AND a cellular module, then you need to do wifi OTA as well. Which is a pain.
I've been doing US radio certifications since I got out of the Air Force and went to work at Motorola some 20 years ago. I am pretty familiar with the requirements by now

In the US, there is no "automotive" certification's as such. There are regulatory, carrier and market requirements. As I say, in the US, if you are using a module on the regulatory side, there is very little which you have to take care of. Just radiated emission for the corresponding radio part (22/24/27 and 90). Those are outlined in a FCC KDB. So, it's cut and dry.
For the carrier stuff....see above.
The market requirements are things like UL marking. Big box stores require UL to sell the product in most cases.

 

[angustx]

Just as a FYI... Type certifications are not a "fun" extra to get. They are a legal requirement.
A head unit in the EU as an example is required to be CE marked. So, this means applying all the RED standards for Radio, EMC, Electrical safety and being eMarked. It's not optional. If you are using a pre-certified module, you can avoid the radio testing, which is a lot, but the other tests are applicable to the end product and cannot be re-used. It doesnt matter if you are talking about 5G NR or Bluetooth 1.0. How old the tech is has no impact on whether or not certification is needed.
Having worked in this field for 20 years, there is no F'ing way I would connect anything to my CAN bus that has not been eMarked.
I have seen even USB cigarette adapter by a very major brand that had so much noise that it physically damaged the CAN BUS testing system.
If there is 5G, that means they also need to have a notified body review everything and give an expert opinion since the standards for the EU are not yet harmonized.
There are avoidable things in the EU, like GCF certification which is for cellular radios. Though, if your product is stocked by a carrier, you have no choice. There we are talking 10 of thousands of tests.

Anyhow... yeah.. if a product you are using is not certified for CE, it was sold to you illegally.


In the US, if you have a cellular radio you MUST have PTCRB certification, unless you are using sprint..then they require GCF.
If you have a non licensed radio like Bluetooth, and you are using a module, it's pretty easy. Just some part 15b and some other small tests. Nothing else. Like 10k USD maybe. Same for Canada.
If it can only be used in the car, you dont even need 15b. Same for medical devices, ironically. In the US, you have UL safety testing, but that is a market requirement, not a legal one.

Any cellular module the head unit manufacturer would use would already have PTCRB. Head unit manufacturers are not designing or dabbing their own hardware or cellular modem. They are integrating existing parts or modules from OEMs and designing the applications that run on top of the android ecosystem.

When I was speaking about certification, I was speaking about automotive certifications as presumably any hardware used by the head unit manufacturer already has basic industry certifications outside of automotive. It is relatively inexpensive to integrate a 3g/4g modem from gemalto (cinterionas an example.

Even if the module has PTCRB, this is only relevant so far as determining which tests are applicable. An "integrator" as they are call in the PTCRB world, still must get PTCRB certification in order to operate on a US carrier. Otherwise they (the carriers) will blacklist the IMEI range.
They just have a limited scope of testing which is depending on where the antenna is, how long the cable it and the MMI of the device as well as some other factors. Say the head unit has a built in antenna, that means OTA is also required. Only in the free space condition though. But, if you add 5G and support a lot of carrier aggregation bands as well EN-DC, the cost will ramp up a lot. If you have WiFi AND a cellular module, then you need to do wifi OTA as well. Which is a pain.
I've been doing US radio certifications since I got out of the Air Force and went to work at Motorola some 20 years ago. I am pretty familiar with the requirements by now

In the US, there is no "automotive" certification's as such. There are regulatory, carrier and market requirements. As I say, in the US, if you are using a module on the regulatory side, there is very little which you have to take care of. Just radiated emission for the corresponding radio part (22/24/27 and 90). Those are outlined in a FCC KDB. So, it's cut and dry.
For the carrier stuff....see above.
The market requirements are things like UL marking. Big box stores require UL to sell the product in most cases.

I do testing on them and that is true if you are buying the radio part or chip. The head unit manufacturers are not doing that level of integration. The modules for these devices are often self contained with their own firmware. There is no need to get any FCC approval or any other to include them in a USB cellular modem as an oversimplified example. The IOT market is loaded with examples as of late.

 

[pablo_max3045]

Any cellular module the head unit manufacturer would use would already have PTCRB. Head unit manufacturers are not designing or dabbing their own hardware or cellular modem. They are integrating existing parts or modules from OEMs and designing the applications that run on top of the android ecosystem.

When I was speaking about certification, I was speaking about automotive certifications as presumably any hardware used by the head unit manufacturer already has basic industry certifications outside of automotive. It is relatively inexpensive to integrate a 3g/4g modem from gemalto (cinterionas an example.


I do testing on them and that is true if you are buying the radio part or chip. The head unit manufacturers are not doing that level of integration. The modules for these devices are often self contained with their own firmware. There is no need to get any FCC approval or any other to include them in a USB cellular modem as an oversimplified example. The IOT market is loaded with examples as of late.

Sorry man, unless you are using something like a USB dongle, you 100% need to have PTCRB using a Gemalto module. (our lab does most of their certs) A module has to have to be its own "package" to certified as a module. The integrator of that module still is required to get PTCRB, but you follow the test plan in the NAPRD for integrator. Section 11.
Every single device which as a circuit is responsible to ensure it complies with FCC rule. A couple of years ago, as an automotive product, part 15b was exempted, so.. yeah.. nothing to do there. But with the release of a newer KDB, you do have to perform test. Not get your own certification, but you do have to do the testing.
https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachm...e Integration Guide V02&tracking_number=44637
There is the link to that one.
Of course, it's to every company if they want to follow the rules or not, but the rules for module integration are very well established in the US.

 

[angustx]

Sorry man, unless you are using something like a USB dongle, you 100% need to have PTCRB using a Gemalto module. (our lab does most of their certs) A module has to have to be its own "package" to certified as a module. The integrator of that module still is required to get PTCRB, but you follow the test plan in the NAPRD for integrator. Section 11.
Every single device which as a circuit is responsible to ensure it complies with FCC rule. A couple of years ago, as an automotive product, part 15b was exempted, so.. yeah.. nothing to do there. But with the release of a newer KDB, you do have to perform test. Not get your own certification, but you do have to do the testing.
https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=bNCiEdkFEKnHsZF9GHCNdg==&desc=996369 D04 Module Integration Guide V02&tracking_number=44637
There is the link to that one.
Of course, it's to every company if they want to follow the rules or not, but the rules for module integration are very well established in the US.

Dude, I just said USB modem in the post you quoted. It’s ok to admit you are wrong. There are numerous examples of manufacturers doing just this in the IOT space inside their devices. So many in fact that there is a market for the manufacturers of the LTE devices. The vast majority of the devices are usb or pcie and either would work in this scenario without any need for fcc or any other type of mobile certification.

 

[pablo_max3045]

Dude, I just said USB modem in the post you quoted. It’s ok to admit you are wrong. There are numerous examples of manufacturers doing just this in the IOT space inside their devices. So many in fact that there is a market for the manufacturers of the LTE devices. The vast majority of the devices are usb or pcie and either would work in this scenario without any need for fcc or any other type of mobile certification.

I actually totally missed to see you wrote USB modem. Sorry about that.
Generally youre right that there would not be something to do. Only in the case that there was another transmitter being used at the same time within 20cm. Then co-location has to be considered. But I say, I totally missread the USB bit.

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