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New Rubicon. Bizarre safety feature.

JeepSmash

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Technically it can’t. You’ll be auto parked.

Anton Yelchin, the 27 year old actor in the rebooted Star Trek movie, died in 2016 when he was pinned between his Jeep and his mailbox after the GC had a gear shifter malfunction, rolled backwards down a hill and killed him as he checked the mail.

FCA was sued for wrongful death.
It wasn't even a malfunction. It was a ridiculous shifter that required clicks. It returned to center after each click, so three clicks down was drive. If you aren't used to it or forget. You pull up. Press up on the shifter and get out. Guess what, you're in neutral not park. Which I'm sure is exactly what Anton did.
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MileHigher

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Man, this thread turned really dark.
‘not even close, yet.

Dark would be pointing out that the Actor that was killed driving a JGC was the Helmsman for the Starship Enterprise in the movies...
 

Creeker

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No disrespect to those that have been injured or worse.

As an engineer, sometimes we are asked to make more idiot proof.
Sometimes the solutions are not all that great, but they fill the request (e.g., costs, benefits, codes, standards, etc.)

My $0.015 worth
Though it is possible for engineers to make something more idiot proof,
the big guy upstairs has the unique ability to produce better idiots much faster then we can come up with solutions.

Another $0.015 worth
As already stated in this post: Manual Transmission.

Jeep Wrangler JL New Rubicon. Bizarre safety feature. Save the manuals 4
 

ScoobyBlue

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This, simply put, is the Anton Yelchin feature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Yelchin#Death

As many of you know, this promising young actor was killed when his Grand Cherokee rolled down his inclined driveway as he left the vehicle without first placing the transmission into park, to check on the gate/mail box at the bottom of his driveway.

The vehicle rolled back, pinned him, and he died from his injuries.

Had it not been a celebrity with a large following, maybe FCA would have not incorporated this feature. But the fact remains that trial juries are sympathetic to the plight of those hurt by products, even when poor judgment on the part of the operator finds fate catching up with them, under the notion that companies have big wallets out of which to pay for such damages.

Don't blame Yelcin, FCA or the government. If you don't want to see such regulation in your lives, advocate for tort reform to hold those who bring ill fate upon themselves, in part liable, reducing their awards--which by the way, may or may not be a good thing...I just don't know, but please assign cause where it belongs: with civil trial awards.

True: there are many product safety features that are a pain. That said, who among you would agree to hold vendors like FCA harmless in exchange for bypassing such controls? Don't you think you, or your survivors would litigate for maximum award especially when no lawyer would take such a case on continency if a goal of seeking maximum payout wasn't part of the plan.
I’m with this guy, but it also means making oneself responsible.

Why is it in Europe you can find tow ratings on some vehicles and here in the states the same vehicle doesn’t have any tow rating? Why are Europe’s safety ratings on vehicles usually less than US? .....it is expected over there that people have a certain amount of responsibility and individuals are held to it. Saw that on some program and car safety and seat belts were involved in discussions.

Here, people have to be told not to use a toaster in a bathtub....they’ll take the time to post what frickin kind of potato or zoo animal they are but won’t even take the time to research or read. I’ve read SO many posts where a question is asked and the answer is clearly right there in an owners manual.

Not directed at the OP. Rant over.
 

JohnT

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I just bought a 2020 Rubicon/Recon. I've taken it on a couple backroad/off-road trips. For an off the shelf rig it does well. For CA people, up and over Mengel pass was cake. But check this out. I just found out that if a door is ajar or open, the transmission won't engage. The light down at the gear selector blinks when you put in Dr or Rev, and it won't engage until you go back to Park and latch the door. So, let's say I'm 40 miles from the nearest trace of civilization (easy to do in CA deserts), I blow it and slip sideways into a rock and bend a door so it won't latch??

I've looked through all the options in the software and don't see a way to disable this feature. Has anyone here found or heard of a workaround or mod to fix this?

There's a good chance I'd still be in a Toyota if I knew about this up front, and I'm waiting to see what other bogus "safety" features I run into.

Thanks. I'm counting on y'all.
pretty sure there is a way to disable this. The vehicles run with no doors. I too have not had my doors off yet, but every Jeep I've had either had a quick unplug of the door harness, or a fuse that could be removed (otherwise your interior lights stay on all the time)
 

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Grace213

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I’m with this guy, but it also means making oneself responsible.

Why is it in Europe you can find tow ratings on some vehicles and here in the states the same vehicle doesn’t have any tow rating? Why are Europe’s safety ratings on vehicles usually less than US? .....it is expected over there that people have a certain amount of responsibility and individuals are held to it. Saw that on some program and car safety and seat belts were involved in discussions.

Here, people have to be told not to use a toaster in a bathtub....they’ll take the time to post what frickin kind of potato or zoo animal they are but won’t even take the time to research or read. I’ve read SO many posts where a question is asked and the answer is clearly right there in an owners manual.

Not directed at the OP. Rant over.
This is why snowblower have a warning stating not to use on roof.
 

Whaler27

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True: there are many product safety features that are a pain. That said, who among you would agree to hold vendors like FCA harmless in exchange for bypassing such controls? Don't you think you, or your survivors would litigate for maximum award especially when no lawyer would take such a case on continency if a goal of seeking maximum payout wasn't part of the plan.
I’m sure I’d probably use every tool available to me to take care of a family member who was seriously injured. We work with the rules of the system we’re in, and desperate people do desperate things, but our system is ridiculous and in desperate need of tort reform.

We all pay a crazy amount of money to support lawyers and pay for unfathomable stupidity, from product development throughout our ownership. Many of us are effectively deprived of ownership because litigation has driven the cost of the product up to the stratosphere. (Consider small planes, for example. A simple $25,000 thing with a 1950s design now costs closer to $250,000 thanks to litigation and the regulation it has produced.)

A few years ago a friend of mine went to New Zealand for a year. When he got there he bought a used camper van for his travels. The guy he bought the van from put my friend in touch with his insurance agent who “transferred” the insurance to my buddy for the next year. The insurance cost for the year was approximately 15% of the US premium for the same coverage. My friend remarked on the cheap cost and the agent said, “Ya, when we have an accident we usually just work things out. We don’t sue each other for everything like you Yanks do.”
 

Whaler27

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pretty sure there is a way to disable this. The vehicles run with no doors. I too have not had my doors off yet, but every Jeep I've had either had a quick unplug of the door harness, or a fuse that could be removed (otherwise your interior lights stay on all the time)
Of course, for the 90% of us who have electric windows and occasionally roll down the windows, this isn’t a solution.
 

rickinAZ

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I’m sure I’d probably use every tool available to me to take care of a family member who was seriously injured. We work with the rules of the system we’re in, and desperate people do desperate things, but our system is ridiculous and in desperate need of tort reform.

We all pay a crazy amount of money to support lawyers and pay for unfathomable stupidity, from product development throughout our ownership. Many of us are effectively deprived of ownership because litigation has driven the cost of the product up to the stratosphere. (Consider small planes, for example. A simple $25,000 thing with a 1950s design now costs closer to $250,000 thanks to litigation and the regulation it has produced.)

A few years ago a friend of mine went to New Zealand for a year. When he got there he bought a used camper van for his travels. The guy he bought the van from put my friend in touch with his insurance agent who “transferred” the insurance to my buddy for the next year. The insurance cost for the year was approximately 15% of the US premium for the same coverage. My friend remarked on the cheap cost and the agent said, “Ya, when we have an accident we usually just work things out. We don’t sue each other for everything like you Yanks do.”
Alex, I agree with everything that you've said except the New Zealand insurance cost seems like a real stretch. I have absolutely no specific knowledge, but I suspect that 15% would not even cover the insurer's administrative costs, let alone allow for any covered repairs. Unless "we usually just work things out" means drivers never report a claim, and inevitably pay out-of-pocket.
 

Whaler27

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Alex, I agree with everything that you've said except the New Zealand insurance cost seems like a real stretch. I have absolutely no specific knowledge, but I suspect that 15% would not even cover the insurer's administrative costs, let alone allow for any covered repairs. Unless "we usually just work things out" means drivers never report a claim, and inevitably pay out-of-pocket.
I know nothing about the insurance business, and I didn't ask about the nature of his coverage, but I suspect New Zealand lacks many of the influences that drive our insurance costs, including crash rates, theft rates, lawsuit rates, and the prevalence of unlicensed and uninsured motorists.

Cops in states that have license plate readers hooked into patrol car computer systems have to be careful about how alert parameters are set, because if the system is set to alert when a plate is attached to a suspended/unlicensed/uninsured driver the tone sings continuously... On Interstate 5 on the west coast drivers in the above category are as thick as fleas, more often than not because they've had difficulty with impaired driving behavior. We're all paying for theses folks -- in insurance premiums and lives.

My state has over 40,000 reported crashes annually. I'll wager it's the medical costs, lost wage costs, and pain and suffering that really drive the premiums up, not the vehicle costs -- but that's just a guess on my part.
 

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DadJokes

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It wasn't even a malfunction. It was a ridiculous shifter that required clicks. It returned to center after each click, so three clicks down was drive. If you aren't used to it or forget. You pull up. Press up on the shifter and get out. Guess what, you're in neutral not park. Which I'm sure is exactly what Anton did.
We owned one. It was a screwed up setup but my wife wanted the GC anyway. I totally understood how that actor made that mistake.
 

Mabar

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I just bought a 2020 Rubicon/Recon. I've taken it on a couple backroad/off-road trips. For an off the shelf rig it does well. For CA people, up and over Mengel pass was cake. But check this out. I just found out that if a door is ajar or open, the transmission won't engage. The light down at the gear selector blinks when you put in Dr or Rev, and it won't engage until you go back to Park and latch the door. So, let's say I'm 40 miles from the nearest trace of civilization (easy to do in CA deserts), I blow it and slip sideways into a rock and bend a door so it won't latch??

I've looked through all the options in the software and don't see a way to disable this feature. Has anyone here found or heard of a workaround or mod to fix this?

There's a good chance I'd still be in a Toyota if I knew about this up front, and I'm waiting to see what other bogus "safety" features I run into.

Thanks. I'm counting on y'all.
Here is a complete explanation of how "auto park" works on a JL Wrangler. You can easily disconnect the door wiring to disable it.

 

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Of course, for the 90% of us who have electric windows and occasionally roll down the windows, this isn’t a solution.
I have electric windows, and pretty certain I can remove the doors as designed. Unplugging the harness that connects the doors should allow operation door-less. Every Jeep I have owned has allowed door-off operation.
Of course, for the 90% of us who have electric windows and occasionally roll down the windows, this isn’t a solution.
I would be astounded if I stored the doors in the garage and my windows still went up and down when i flipped the controls.
 

MileHigher

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Of course, for the 90% of us who have electric windows and occasionally roll down the windows, this isn’t a solution.
IT is a solution to get you out of a damaged door situation. It seems that the door-open/belt-off would be most easily defeated by a fake seatbelt clip if you want it continuously defeated.
 

JohnT

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Of course, for the 90% of us who have electric windows and occasionally roll down the windows, this isn’t a solution.
I had to read this a second time, and then realize - you are right, sorry. the original post was a safety defeat on a door-open scenario.. The case where you would have the doors actually on. Yeah... not sure how to get around that.
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