New Owner - Dealer Should Be Arrested For Attempted Grand Larceny!

[mountainrivera]

Thanks for the comments all. This was more of a cathartic post than anything else. No buyer's remorse here and an unwind of the deal is probably not doable even if i wanted to go that route. I may not have made the best deal but hey I now have a Wrangler But I can't wrap my head around the malicious intent of this business. I left out some add'l color to keep my mini rant shorter; it's just nuts that they do stuff like this. Eventually i will get gas in the car at the normal rate, just not sure who i will go to for the fix.

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[TaiMc]

…..When i sat with the finance manager she told me what my monthly payment would be which was less than i thought but learned she had me at 72 months; i wanted 48. So she then recalculated the monthly pmnt at 48 months and told me the new number which was about 80 bucks higher than what i had calculated….

On this point…tbh this doesn’t sound like a problem to me. By receiving the 72month financing you would’ve received a lower monthly rate, which is to your advantage.

There is no penalty to pay the jeep off earlier. So you could’ve still done your own calculations including interest and paid a monthly amount that would total 48 months, all the while only being required to pay a lesser amount each month.

This could’ve been helpful to you if you ever ran into any financial issues…as paying more than required would often have you paid up multiple months in advance.

TBH you could’ve used that to your advantage, if you have the discipline.

Yes, the other stuff they did was wild…but if you EVER don’t feel good about a potential purchase…if it makes you feel uneasy, walk away. It is your hard earned money and you should never feel bullied out of your money, period.

I myself don’t fool around with dealerships when purchasing. I tell them to give me their best price from the jump, and I will compare their price to multiple dealers (I inform each dealership of this). I tell them to take their time, put some thought into it and give me their best offer. Whoever gives me the best price that’s who I go with. I don’t haggle. I don’t believe in that.

I ordered my jeep that way, over the phone and email. Didn’t even have to come in to “talk it over”. No…there’s nothing to discuss bc I refuse to let them waste my time…what is your best and first/final price.

 

[TaiMc]

I would concur except for the buying experience I had with Peterson's in ID for my Jeep. Most amazing and painless vehicle-buying experience I have ever had.

Same with mine with Riveroaks in Houston. No stress at all. Their internet sales Rep was on point. He didn’t play any games with me. I explained my situation and my expectations…he gave me the best deal in Houston at that time as other dealerships couldn’t beat it.

Excellent, simple buying experience.

 

[Carlton]

I think you should be more upset with yourself than the dealership. You saw things weren't going well, gave in, and went along with/agreed to all of their conditions. I would feel bad if I had done this as well. It doesn't feel good to be walked on, especially when you allow it to happen.

Take it as a learning experience. What not to do in the future. Grow from it, and it will have a positive impact on the future. Look forward and forget about it for now.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Locally most dealers have added dealer mark up on top of the msrp right on the window sticker. Of course you're not required to pay it, just as you aren't required to buy from them. Does that make them bad people for trying? If half their customers are willing to pay it, why wouldn't they try? I figure it's likely hugely more expensive to operate a dealership in the bay area than it is in Tennessee or Idaho. Everything from state taxes they pay to property values to labor rates are likely double or more. In an area where the average income is in the 6 figures, I completely understand them trying to wring out every penny they can. If you have the time and energy to buy from one of the great dealers out of the area like Gupton or Petersons (never used either but have heard nothing but great things) obviously you'll save some money. The convenience of buying locally, off the lot, and driving away in my new Jeep the same day holds significant value too. ID is about a 15 hour drive, add in gas and airfare getting there, lost wages for several days, at least one hotel room, and there goes $3k+ of that savings not to mention a few days of my life. TN is more like 30 hours, I'd have to save $7k+ just to make that trip remotely viable. On top of that, I'm not comfortable running freeway speeds consistently for days on a 0 mile engine as that's just not the way I feel you should break one in. I'm happy with the deal we made, dropped the dealer mark up, $1k off msrp, no added bs fees, and only 3 hours total of MY time. Could we have done better with more effort, time, and distance? 100%. But ultimately time is money, saving one is saving the other.

 

[Punknhed]

i think by titling this post attempted grand larceny is quite the stretch. Of course dealers are going to have a doc fee. Are most a bit on the high side, sure. Same thing with the financing, most dealers get points if a customer uses their financing. Dealers want to make money any way they can. We dont necessarily have to like it or agree with it.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

There an old joke that applies to a lot of jobs.

"How do you know a dealer is lying?"

"They're talking".

Also, try to fill on a different stations pump. I've had some pop off super easy and I had to pull nozzle back a bit and some that didnt.

Notwithstanding, welcome to the forum.

 

[karynm8621]

Forgive me but wouldn't the rate be higher for a longer loan

On this point…tbh this doesn’t sound like a problem to me. By receiving the 72month financing you would’ve received a lower monthly rate, which is to your advantage.

 

[TaiMc]

Forgive me but wouldn't the rate be higher for a longer loan

The OP mentioned that the monthly payment was $80 lower bc of the 72month loan ($80 higher with the 48month term). I didn't see a mention of the rate (I could've overlooked) or how much interest was. In the scheme of things, it really doesn't matter, bc the more money you put on your monthly payment (over the minimum requirement) that goes to your principal determines how much interest you pay. I doubt the rate was that different to make a huge difference. And the quicker you pay your principal down, the less money you pay for interest. The principal amount determines how much interest you pay (you probably are aware of this already).

This is how I've always handled my loans; and how I pay them off quickly while raising my credit score. If the difference in interest rate equates to small difference in interest paid per month, it doesn't matter if you plan to pay your loan off years earlier...you will pay less in interest if you pay more on the principal....way less the earlier you decrease the principal.

My Jeep loan was for 72 months but I paid it off in 42 months. The amount of interest they would've made off of me had I went the full 72months was wayyyy more than they actually got. If I remember right, the total amount of interest I paid was right near $1,200, over the course of 3.5yrs. That's not enough to cause me any problems. But I was happy to know that I had some wiggle room if anything happened financially... I could've skipped a few months if things got bad.

 

[Hermz]

I think I remember a post on here not too long ago about how the Wrangler is one of the highest marked up vehicles. If you buy one off the lot (as opposed to ordering) you're going to take a hit. My salesman was pretty cool and since I ordered it I got under MSRP, but I didn't get below invoice like some people here. My dealership wouldn't apply the FCA discount for a Wrangler. At the end of the day, I didn't want to travel to a super far away dealer to save 1-2k. SO, in your case, yea you probably paid a little more than you could have, but you got to drive one home off the lot! Sometimes there's more to the deal than just the price. Hopefully your new Jeep brings you a lot of fun!

 

[Old Jeeper]

I am the happy owner of a 2022 Sahara Unlimited. However, My dealer experience was not good. There were 3 failure points that i want to share I'll try to be brief and just cover highpoints.

1. I called and attempted to negotiate off of the sticker on the phone and was told to come in where I'd likely do better. I went in negotiated a trade and asked for consideration off of the sticker. That's when they dropped bomb #1. I was told no discount and that the car is 15% over over sticker, about $5k. I expressed my dismay and was told "ok we will do sticker." Wow, nice try!!!

2. Fast forward i agreed to pay sticker; they agreed to pay an additional $500 for my trade but added a BS $695 doc fee that i agreed to. I asked for a copy of the bill of sale to document the price. The purchase included financing and i established the rate before I stopped in to close the deal. When i sat with the finance manager she told me what my monthly payment would be which was less than i thought but learned she had me at 72 months; i wanted 48. So she then recalculated the monthly pmnt at 48 months and told me the new number which was about 80 bucks higher than what i had calculated. Fast fwd, she added an additional $1500 doc fee that was removed after i pushed back - honest mistake?? Doubt it!! That's about $6500 bucks they tried to steal!!

3. I would really like opinions on this one. After doing all the paperwork I got in the car and was pleasantly surprised with a full tank of gas and i happily drove off. Two days later i go to the gas station for the first time and the pump was cutting off after about 2 bucks worth of gas. So apparently there is some issue with the fuel sensor that tricks the pump into thinking the tank is full. The dealer hasn't fully diagnosed the cause yet. They are not that close to me (about 45 mins to one hour) so i asked to drop it off and for them to provide a loaner. I was told they don't do loaners. At this point, i am hesitant to go back there. I wanted the loaner as ransom to ensure they do the job timely, not make me wait for parts or make me drive there just to diagnose then have me go back again. And as for the problem, I honestly do not believe this defect manifested itself after i took the car instead believing they discovered the issue on the date of delivery and had me finalize the deal and then deal with me afterward. I plan to go to another dealer to get this fixed - I'm done!

Sorry that was long winded. So u ask why did i not walk after bullet 1? Well the car was priced several thousand $$ lower as it was configured with less options than any other available car in the NY tristate area. It was priced at $48k vs $53-$55k. Thnx for listening. Hopefully your buying experience was better!

Here is how I (ME) do it:

Drive into the dealer, walk around a bit and up comes Freddy D. Fenderlizard at We Be Jeeps Inc

Can I help you?

Maybe, I want to buy (or order) a Jeep Rubicon, the Red one you have over there (or order).

Sure lets go to my office.

Don't need to go to your office yet. Here is MY Deal, you either accept and we go write it up or I walk. I pay INVOICE, (-) any Discounts I qualify for like the military. Clean deal, with no add-ons,. NO Lifetime window tint, No Naugahyde Scrotum Sack shift knob covers from the rare Nauga. That is it, Invoice, clean deal and you have a customer.

Sir, we don't sell at Invoice!

OK, great I don't buy at Invoice! You walk away.


Does it work? YES! Since 1978: 17 Jeeps, 4 Corvettes*, 1 MB 500 SL, 2 Gladiators, 6 SuperDuty F 350/450 trucks.

My first-year, 2001, Z06 Corvette was $1000 over Invoice, Corvettes Z06s at that time were only available on a legit order by a customer and the going price was $10,000 over MSRP. My 78 Corvette Indy Pace Car was $500 over the Invoice and the going price on a first-year pace car was about $40,000 over MSRP at auction, only 1 Pace car per dealer in the US. My other 2 Corvettes were $500 over Invoice.

Did every Dealer I walk into accept my deal? NO! I did go to a lot of dealers, knocking on doors but what I have found over life is there is ALWAYS someone who wants to sell it.

OPTION: I was doing a consulting gig at a company as their acting VP/CTO building up the IT Division. I hired a gal as the Networking Manager and she was very much a real HOTTIE. It was getting down close to the time to leave and head back to home base in Dallas. I asked her to lunch a few times and we hit it off. So right before I left I ask her out and asked if she wanted to Fly to Nashville with me for a long weekend we had. This was our first real date. We left Maimi, flew to Nashville, got a rental car to Bowling Green Ky and went to the Corvette Plant then over to the Corvette Museum and took delivery of my new Z06 Corvette and drove back to Miami. Ended up marrying her.

Takeaway: You can combine a vaca car with a car-buying trip, done it many times since 1978. Pick a city or area you like to go to, start calling dealers, do the deal over the fone and seal it with a deposit and a copy of the sale or the order. I order almost every car I have owned since 78. Go have fun!



There are 2 basic approaches in the car business:

2. Make your profit off every customer

1. Make your profit off VOLUME. These are often country dealers and my SuperDuty dealer sells ALL SDs at Invoice on a CLEAN deal. Big volume, small showroom (1 car). Same at my Corvette dealer sells Chevy/GMC trucks, BIG volume and both of these dealers, one in Tx and one in Ga sell trucks at Invoice to Ranchers and Farmers. This leaves wives and kids buying Suburbans, Camaros, Mustangs etc. As long as Daddy buys his Ranch truck, F 450 Crewcab, Long Bed, King Ranch at Invoice and he gets one every other year. He doesn't care what mama and the kids want, let them buy whatever they want.

NOTE: If you ever walked into a Feed store out in the country, you might note there is a whole section of that store that has women/girls' clothes and guns and ammo and lot of stuff you would not think they would have. When the gals go buy or its hunting season and daddy needs a new gun..."put it on the feed bill". Feed bills are tax deductible....and now you know

2. Make your profit off every customer: Freddy D FenderLizard is an X con done time for RAPE. He now works as a car salesman. Most states must put the itemized cost of the car and options on the window. The window sticker comes from the Mfg and next to is the dealer add-on options. Here are some actual numbers from a dealer I walked away from.

Lifetime Window Tint: $1300
Scam: Window tint is INSIDE the window

Lifetime Nitrogen filled tires: $1730
Scam: 78% of the AIR we BREATHE is Nitrogen already

Lifetime Fabric/Leather protectant: $800
Scam: Comes from a Spray can, takes about 3 min to do the front seats

Lifetime Wax (1 per month): $980
Scam: Its nothing but a Wash & spray on wax used by the make-ready people

Market Value Adjustment: From $500 to $50,000
Scam: The market adjustment is something dreamed up by that dealer, no more, no less


What you need to ask, is what are the actual STATE and or County costs to sell a car! What is Actual Inventory Tax?

 

[OhioJeeper]

Rule #1, If financing, visit a bank or credit union before going to the dealership. Know your rate and any doc fees if present. Then negotiate a cash price on the vehicle. tell them you've secured outside financing. If they can beat the bank's rate, fine, but negotiate from a position of strength.

 

[King Nothing]

Bought 2 from Gupton.
Both were 6% off invoice.
Both transactions were perfect, seamless and super fast.

Sorry to hear about yours.

I'm pretty confident I can never attempt to buy from any other dealer, lest I leave in handcuffs with bloody knuckles when they try their dealer bullsh*t.

Yep. Our transaction with Gupton was the easiest I’ve ever had

 

[COJeeper]

Who pays sticker price????

You should sue. Also, move out of NY, that place is horrible.

 

[MtCamper]

Lots of bloviating here. Simple truth is this isn't your fathers car buying market. When I got my 18 JLUR i went to the local dealer and looked over a nice selection they had in stock. I had already checked with a volume dealer, Dave Smith, and knew where their price was. Asked the local dealer to price match and walked out with a new Jeep. Recently I traded my 18 3500 Denali Duramax on a 22 LTZ 3500 Duramax. Call Dave Smith and nope, MSRP+. Local dealer was MSRP with about a grand of fees and stuff that were mandatory. No inventory to look at. No negotiation on price. But, I got $8000 more on my trade than I paid for it. Essentially I was able to drive a new truck for less than $2000/year and a 5 month wait for the new one to be built. I see there are some opportunities to get below MSRP on a few vehicles, Jeep being one. Others are MSRP or MSRP+. Right now the dealers have all the cards, either play their game or walk. BTW, small town dealers know they are the only game in town but most also realize they aren't always going to be playing with all the cards. They still treat their customers with some degree of consideration.

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