New JL Steering Issue TSB 08-074-20 (for "Improved Steering Feel")

[californiajeeping]

Not sure its fair to say they don't care. The auto business is VERY competitive.

What year is that data?

I think 2018, but most years show the same bottom or near bottom results for Jeep, Fiat, etc.

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[Dkretden]

I think 2018, but most years show the same bottom or near bottom results for Jeep, Fiat, etc.

Exactly. And that is exactly why I say that FCA really just doesn’t care.

 

[DanW]

Btw, nice to see Chevy up near the top. Have fun convincing the Toyota cult that this is legitimate data. You'll start a 1,000 page thread.

Doesn't look like Ford is too far out in front of Jeep. Statistically, barely.

The DanW customer satisfaction survey still says Jeep whips Ford, by a country mile. The DanW initial quality and long term quality surveys also show Ford to score waaaay lower than Jeep.

Really, that's the survey that matters most to me.

Honestly, I've had very few bad dealership service experiences over the years. The Ford dealer hasn't been a horror story. They've taken care of other things, but they can't get that sliding door sensor right. Not sure why.

But out of Jeep, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac (yes, I had 4 Pontiacs), the current Jeep dealership is the best.

 

[Dkretden]

Btw, nice to see Chevy up near the top. Have fun convincing the Toyota cult that this is legitimate data. You'll start a 1,000 page thread.

Doesn't look like Ford is too far out in front of Jeep. Statistically, barely.

The DanW customer satisfaction survey still says Jeep whips Ford, by a country mile. The DanW initial quality and long term quality surveys also show Ford to score waaaay lower than Jeep.

Really, that's the survey that matters most to me.

Honestly, I've had very few bad dealership service experiences over the years. The Ford dealer hasn't been a horror story. They've taken care of other things, but they can't get that sliding door sensor right. Not sure why.

But out of Jeep, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac (yes, I had 4 Pontiacs), the current Jeep dealership is the best.

I’m very happy that you have found one of the good dealers in the FCA network. They exist, for sure.

This is an interesting read.

if FCA really, truly, and deeply cared about customer experience, would they not require their entire dealer network to adopt the few simple things listed in this article? If you believe this article, if FCA did this (and nobody else did), it would vault them from last to likely first. But...... FCA doesn’t .....Why? I believe it’s because they just don’t care. They “say” they care (all companies say that). But, at their core, they really don’t.

https://www.autocreditexpress.net/b...tisfaction-in-dealership-service-departments/

 

[kkarnage]

I’m very happy that you have found one of the good dealers in the FCA network. They exist, for sure.

This is an interesting read.

if FCA really, truly, and deeply cared about customer experience, would they not require their entire dealer network to adopt the few simple things listed in this article? If you believe this article, if FCA did this (and nobody else did), it would vault them from last to likely first. But...... FCA doesn’t .....Why? I believe it’s because they just don’t care. They “say” they care (all companies say that). But, at their core, they really don’t.

https://www.autocreditexpress.net/b...tisfaction-in-dealership-service-departments/

I mean, technically they do “care”. About making money. Like most companies, their primary objective is to keep shareholders happy, not customers. They only “care” about customers if it significantly affects their profitability in some way. Having a brand such as Jeep, where people like us will purchase the vehicle regardless of where their customer service falls on the spectrum means that they don’t really have to care that much, since you’ve already purchased the vehicle, and their data suggests that you continue purchasing that brand, so they don’t feel compelled to change their approach.

Now, if their data were to start suggesting that they might be losing some brand loyalty to, say, Ford, that *might* change their attitude. But who knows. Perhaps their tolerance for market loss is higher than we think it should be.

Anyhow... I think we all agree they could do a whole lot better.

 

[BrntWS6]

Fortunately my local Jeep dealer has been fine. They are doing the TSB Tuesday no questions. They are billing $150hr (as per work order) so not sure how they don't make as much on warranty work as some point out. Even offered a rental for me. They don't really care much about mods either, I have rubi take-offs and a Mopar CAI.

Sucks for you guys that get the run around. If my dealer sucked there is no way I would ever buy an extended warranty from a dealer like that.

 

[californiajeeping]

Exactly. And that is exactly why I say that FCA really just doesn’t care.

Statistically they don’t care but there are exceptions where some dealerships are excellent to work with and the new cast iron steering box is evidence that someone in FCA cares.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

And what this really says is that this isn’t a “jeep” problem. It’s squarely an FCA problem. Is says to me that FCA simply doesn’t care. They simply don’t, culturally, care at all about the interface of customers with the dealer network that FCA actually sets the standards for. FCA could require greatly enhanced standards of service at their dealerships. But they don’t. FCA could play hardball with low performing dealers, but they don’t. FCA, like other brands, could do a lot of things to improve customer satisfaction...... but they don’t, haven’t, and probably won’t ...... until it bites them in the butt.

They will soon be bit....by a Bronco. FCA can’t afford to see a 25% decline in Wrangler sales....and that is what could happen. Ford’s dealer network is vastly superior IMHO...based on my experiences. I can’t believe it took FCA three years to address the steering issue.... My 2020 is not too bad but is not as good as the steering in the 2015 JK that preceded it. My biggest concern when I took delivery was the steering...which turned out to be “adequate”...but not great by any means.

 

[DanW]

They will soon be bit....by a Bronco. FCA can’t afford to see a 25% decline in Wrangler sales....and that is what could happen. Ford’s dealer network is vastly superior IMHO...based on my experiences. I can’t believe it took FCA three years to address the steering issue.... My 2020 is not too bad but is not as good as the steering in the 2015 JK that preceded it. My biggest concern when I took delivery was the steering...which turned out to be “adequate”...but not great by any means.

Actually they could, although they wouldn't want it. That would still put them in the neighborhood of 180k units a year, not counting Gladiator and Covid notwithstanding.

Remember, you will NEVER get a solid front axle to handle/steer like an IFS. Never. That's the price of admission to the off-road advantages it offers. Ford has their issues, too, btw. Read up on Ford Truck forums on Super Dutys with solid front axle. Everything from Death Wobble to dead spots.

I do agree, though. My JK's steering was better, at least on the highway. Now after the fix, they are much closer. I'll know for sure after a long trip, coming in October.

 

[mwilk012]

Fortunately my local Jeep dealer has been fine. They are doing the TSB Tuesday no questions. They are billing $150hr (as per work order) so not sure how they don't make as much on warranty work as some point out. Even offered a rental for me. They don't really care much about mods either, I have rubi take-offs and a Mopar CAI.

Sucks for you guys that get the run around. If my dealer sucked there is no way I would ever buy an extended warranty from a dealer like that.

Warranty work pays fewer labor hours than non-warranty work. The TSB pays 1.9 hours, on what is clearly a 3+ hour job.

 

[BrntWS6]

Warranty work pays fewer labor hours than non-warranty work. The TSB pays 1.9 hours, on what is clearly a 3+ hour job.

I don't know how long it would actually take someone who is familiar with it. First time will definitely take longer.

But I have heard people in the business say they can make more on warranty work if they write it up a certain way. So maybe they just increase their labor rate.

 

[DanW]

Warranty work pays fewer labor hours than non-warranty work. The TSB pays 1.9 hours, on what is clearly a 3+ hour job.

It still pays, though, and at what is an exhorbitant rate compared to what independent shops get. I never feel sorry for them with warranty work. If all they had was warranty work, they'd still be a lucrative business.

 

[mwilk012]

It still pays, though, and at what is an exhorbitant rate compared to what independent shops get. I never feel sorry for them with warranty work. If all they had was warranty work, they'd still be a lucrative business.

Not really, our independent shop labor rate is $126/hr.

 

[DanW]

Not really, our independent shop labor rate is $126/hr.

Ouch! I still think our area dealers are higher than that, though.

Keep in mind, when folks bring cars to dealers for TSBs or warranty work, they often get other services, too, which are high profit and add up. For mine, I had them throw on the Rock Krawler spring pads. Probably took them 20 minutes but charged about .75 hours. I'm fine with it. They do it right and take good care of me. Plus, they did let me play with that Gladiator for a weekend.

They'll also sell me another Jeep for my wife when she is ready to shed the big Ford Transit in a year or two.

 

[jjdustr340]

I can’t believe it took FCA three years to address the steering issue.... My 2020 is not too bad but is not as good as the steering in the 2015 JK that preceded it. My biggest concern when I took delivery was the steering...which turned out to be “adequate”...but not great by any means.

This right here sums it up nicely. I have a 2013 JKU, 3 inch lift, 35’s and it drives much better than the wife’s 2020 Willys.
When we got it at the dealer, I was unaware of the steering box issues. Initially, I chalked it up to the tires being set to 41 psi cold at the dealer.
Dropped the pressure to the placard 37psi, but I still fought it the entire 136 mile drive home.
Found the thread about the fuse pull to reset the steering assist. That helped, but it still didn’t drive as well as my 2013, which I find completely unacceptable. Every model year should improve upon the previous, and going from JK to JL should be a total upgrade.
That all being said, her Jeep gets the new box Tuesday.

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