New JL is a POS

iznthesky

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2 Door, 6 speed manual transmission here; with over 10 K Miles on it. Now that it is broken in, the transmission shifts much smoother. When it was new, I experienced some wandering with the steering on the highway, however....for unknown reasons my JL has exhibited this wandering less and less and I don’t experience it anymore.

I don’t know what to say about Ghuzz and his problems with his JL.

But mine is still giving me about 40 Smiles per gallon....and I am loving every minute of it
When I purchased it, the dealer gave me the Lifetime Warranty at a cost that I vowed to keep secret....Glad I got it.....even more glad I have NOT needed it yet.
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Texas_Yote

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1 year, 35,000 miles of trouble free rock crawling and mostly trouble free ownership. There was the wobble issue but I am also lifted on 35's so that played into it. For every loud complaint there are thousands of us running around without issues. These are minor and i am sure would be resolved quickly with a quick stop by the dealer. Your jeep must have been made on a Friday, or it just hates you and wants a new owner.
 

COBill

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That's a rather smug attitude, but it also reflects different people's expectations from a Jeep.

When I was suffering through monthly dealer visits with my TJ, attitudes generally fell into the "Who cares if there is a loud clunk from the driveline every time you move between forward gears and reverse" and "Who cares about paint quality, it's a Jeep, buy a rattle can of Duplicolor and fix it or you don't deserve to own a Jeep" camps.

Now that a Rubicon is probably a $55K+ investment, suddenly people want things like their dashboards not to reboot, their rear view cameras to work, every time, and the rear window defroster power cable not to fall off the rear window.

I'm glad yours has been trouble-free, but as can be seen in the threads here, many of the issues have not exactly been unique.

The somewhat shocking thing is mine was a 1997, and many of the issues like water not pooling on the passenger floor board after a heavy rain, affected CJs, YJs, TJs, JKs and now JLs. It's not like they haven't been making more or less the same vehicle for 60 years or so to give them time to figure out cowl drains/leakage or that Wranglers get dusty inside when driven off road, so seat belt retractors shouldn't "gum up" with dust.
 

Texas_Yote

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That's a rather smug attitude, but it also reflects different people's expectations from a Jeep.

When I was suffering through monthly dealer visits with my TJ, attitudes generally fell into the "Who cares if there is a loud clunk from the driveline every time you move between forward gears and reverse" and "Who cares about paint quality, it's a Jeep, buy a rattle can of Duplicolor and fix it or you don't deserve to own a Jeep" camps.

Now that a Rubicon is probably a $55K+ investment, suddenly people want things like their dashboards not to reboot, their rear view cameras to work, every time, and the rear window defroster power cable not to fall off the rear window.

I'm glad yours has been trouble-free, but as can be seen in the threads here, many of the issues have not exactly been unique.

The somewhat shocking thing is mine was a 1997, and many of the issues like water not pooling on the passenger floor board after a heavy rain, affected CJs, YJs, TJs, JKs and now JLs. It's not like they haven't been making more or less the same vehicle for 60 years or so to give them time to figure out cowl drains/leakage or that Wranglers get dusty inside when driven off road, so seat belt retractors shouldn't "gum up" with dust.
First Jeep, Car, whatever should never be associated with an "investment" unless the word exotic is next to it...It is a toy, pure and simple and it does not appreciate so therefore not an investment. Unless you like buying bitcoin...

No one drives a Jeep because it is has great on road manners...That sits more in the realm of pseudo off road wanna-be's like FJ's...

Dashboard reboots when there is an OTA...if most people knew that there would be less complaints...most issues related to the head unit are caused when there is a behind the scenes software or UI update happening. They do not tell you when it happens and much like your work PC when IT decides to do an "update" sometimes things don't work well until the update is finished. Thats life with computers...my mustang does it so does my RS3...

The camera issue is typically related to the prior mentioned issue. Everyone who has had a JL for any amount of time will experience it..there are a lot of software patches being pushed...upon restart the issue clears up...nothing that grabbing the passenger seat and looking backwards cant fix...or did we all forget how to really drive that if a backup camera doesn't work we cant figure out how to reverse...

Never heard of the power cable...must be a one off...

It floods in Texas, as a matter of fact it rained 3" at my house Saturday...What flooding issue do you speak of lol. Can't be from the tops..I have the dual top group and have seen it all with both of them... The only time I have seen water in the cab was when I didnt have my plug situated correctly and went through a small river...

Every car has its issues...my A6 went balls us and electrical system quite working a number of times...first year range rover sport liked to air out on the freeway above 60...My yukon liked to chuck 2nd gear every 25k miles... I can keep going... but complaining about a glove box and an issue with a seat then calling the whole rig a POS is just someone being a little bitch; take it to the dealer and get it fixed, shit happens... If they wont fix it, then feel free to come in here and swing your purse around...
 

COBill

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Sorry, a vehicle is not an investment, technically, though most people would colloquially call it one.

Dashboard reboots when there is an OTA...if most people knew that there would be less complaints...most issues related to the head unit are caused when there is a behind the scenes software or UI update happening. They do not tell you when it happens and much like your work PC when IT decides to do an "update" sometimes things don't work well until the update is finished. Thats life with computers...my mustang does it so does my RS3...
Not OTA-related at all:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/dash-instrument-cluster-failure-after-two-days.19224/

The camera issue is typically related to the prior mentioned issue. Everyone who has had a JL for any amount of time will experience it..there are a lot of software patches being pushed...upon restart the issue clears up...nothing that grabbing the passenger seat and looking backwards cant fix...or did we all forget how to really drive that if a backup camera doesn't work we cant figure out how to reverse...
There goes the "It's a Jeep…" logic. It's a federally mandated safety feature, and other vehicles don't have their rear view cameras turn to lines or snow.

Never heard of the power cable...must be a one off...
Are you serious?

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/rear-window-defroster-unsoldered.7776/

It floods in Texas, as a matter of fact it rained 3" at my house Saturday...What flooding issue do you speak of lol. Can't be from the tops..I have the dual top group and have seen it all with both of them... The only time I have seen water in the cab was when I didnt have my plug situated correctly and went through a small river...
Here are two:



Every car has its issues...my A6 went balls us and electrical system quite working a number of times...first year range rover sport liked to air out on the freeway above 60...My yukon liked to chuck 2nd gear every 25k miles... I can keep going... but complaining about a glove box and an issue with a seat then calling the whole rig a POS is just someone being a little bitch; take it to the dealer and get it fixed, shit happens... If they wont fix it, then feel free to come in here and swing your purse around...
Once again, the attitude, like those are issues you should have to deal with in a $55K vehicle?

You are correct about the A6 and Range Rover (and especially Yukon) which is why I would not buy a Range Rover or GM product, and Audi's entire product line is off limits to me now because I won't buy anything without a manual transmission.

I'm not saying that "Yes, Jeeps are a POS" - and I never once mentioned road manners (though I'm not aware of other vehicles with "death wobble" issues) - what I'm saying is that things like water leaks are really something Jeep should have nailed down by now.

 

Timmyjoe

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I would say that everybody that owns a Harley knows that Honda builds a much better reliable bike but bought the Harley anyway. Buying a Jeep is passion and lifestyle.
As a Harley owner of over seven years, with about 10,000 miles on the bike, I'd say the newer Harleys are definitely as reliable as a Honda. Mine has been flawless.

NEED TO UPDATE THIS. SEAT WAS NOT BROKEN ON NEW JEEP WRANGLER 2-DOOR ON SHOWROOM FLOOR, SALESMAN HAD NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT AND SHOWED US THE WRONG WAY TO MOVE THE SEAT FORWARD TO LET SOMEONE IN THE BACK SEAT.

He told us to pull up on the nylon strap, then pull the buckle on top of the seat to slide it forward. To slide it back, shove the seat rearward into position hard, pull the nylon strap, and push the seat back up straight. Got curious this morning and found the Jeep Wrangler Owners Manual online, and on page 49 it clearly states that you should not touch the nylon strap, just pull the top of seat buckle, slide seat forward, not touch the nylon strap, slide seat backward and push seat back up.

Went by the dealer this morning and tried it, and the seat works fine.

**Funny thing on the broken seat issue, I'm looking at buying my first Jeep Wrangler, looking at a 2 door Sport S, and the 2019 one the dealer has, fresh off the factory truck, . . . . would think Jeep would want to not have them break before they even leave the dealers showroom.**

Best,
-Tim
 
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HeavyUser

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I mean let's be real, quality control is PISS and reliability is questionable. I joined this site before I factory ordered my JL Rubicon. When I started reading the threads in the Issues/Repairs forum it really worried me. There are so many threads with so many different problems, but I figured like most oh lemons yada yada yada. Less than a 100 miles out the dealership door and I have problems.

Jeep has a problem, their quality control is just pure trash and making excuses for this bs has got to stop.

All that being said, I would buy another one of these bucket of problems in a heart beat. I love my Wrangler and will always have one in my garage, with an extended warranty of course .... lol.
 

willcasp

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Part of the issue is that when folks are asked to pay more, they expect more. Fully loaded Jeeps are pushing $55-60K. That is a lot of money to most folks. FCA has not caught on that when they charge Lexus prices, consumers expect Lexus quality.
 

anotherWS6

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^^^^Even stripped down models aint cheap. But I agree with you. And if I paid 20 grand more to get a loaded model I'd be even more upset.

I personally think that what is really sad is that these are one of the very few vehicles designed and built in the United States. Jeep sure is doing a good job showing the world why vehicles and jobs should not be outsourced. Kudos to them for keeping a factory and its' workers going at home when most built those factories and sent those jobs to overseas, but cmon. What is going on here?

I'm not gonna rant here, I've done that enough elsewhere already. But the fact of the matter is --- I am genuinly surprised at the overall quality of my vehicle. I'm not expecting the world either. But to buy a brand new vehicle with such a wide array of problems in today's day and age is pretty shocking. And yes, these things are basically one of a kind, meaning there isn't much out there that can compete with their basic design. But it's not advanced design. Stick axles and body on frame. Thats what ALL cars were at one point. So the money isnt being spent on revolutionizing these things and you'd think that they would have the basic shit rock solid - to have such steering and suspension issues is unforgivable. If my jeep cost 27K instead of 37K I'd still have a hard time swallowing those problems. But an easier time with the rest of the shit. And if it cost 17K I'd say hey man, it's got 2 axles, a motor, transmission, seat and steering wheel and can technically be driven around, WTF else do you expect? But at the 37K mine cost..... other vehicles at the same price put these to shame and its ridiculous.

It is what it is and its still a fun, capable, unique (except for the 27 identical ones I pass every day) vehicle. And I don't hate it. I just dont understand WTF is happening over at Jeep.
 

Kyanche

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My Camry's birthday is memorial day, she'll be 12, 165K flawless miles! oh how I love the way she gets me to and from work each day!
I've heard plenty of people say they got ~150k flawless miles out of an FCA vehicle.... the catch is they do so in the first 2-3 years lol. If you look over at wranglerforum I've seen a post where someone's 3.6 crapped out at 56k miles and 5 years old.
 

COBill

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The bottom line with Jeep has long been this:

  • They know they have a unique vehicle with few competitors for its purpose.
  • They know Jeep fans are largely mega-fans who tend to be forgiving.
  • Wranglers sell really well, in part because they are perhaps the least expensive convertible around.

Thus there is literally zero financial incentive for them to spend money on quality control.

  • They know from forums and elsewhere that many customers will forgive issues as a "Jeep thing."
  • They know customers who want off-road capability don't really have alternatives.
  • They know the few customers they lose are still not worth the expense of upping QC.

There's also the corporate view towards QC. Chrysler operated the same way company-wide for years.

Daimler found that out the hard way, but Mercedes quality has itself been plummeting since the early 1980s when they decided to become more of a mass-market brand and less of a luxury brand.

Then, Fiat… we'll let their QC speak for itself.

The bottom line is there's literally no financial reason for Jeep to improve. Sales aren't falling because of their issues, won't go up if their quality improves, and even some of the silly issues we've seen here, like repurchasing vehicles because they can't be bothered to grab parts off the assembly line, don't directly impact their quarterly earnings, so same rationale.

Sad, but true, and it is a viable business strategy for them I don't expect them to ever change unless a competitor with drastically higher build quality appears in the market.

The Toyota FJ Cruiser kind of fell into that category for awhile, but due to its larger size at a time when the Unlimited hadn't yet become the model that spurred the majority of Wrangler sales, not a lot of people cross-shopped the two so it didn't have much sales impact.
 

Sorbs

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The Toyota FJ Cruiser kind of fell into that category for awhile, but due to --> it being ugly <-- its larger size at a time when the Unlimited hadn't yet become the model that spurred the majority of Wrangler sales, not a lot of people cross-shopped the two --> because it is so stupid looking <-- so it didn't have much sales impact.
--> Fixed your thread <--

We were on Imogene Pass this weekend (didn't see one FJ, BTW) and, by a large majority, Jeeps. As usual, us Jeepers were really friendly toward everybody. Unfortunately, we met a couple of Toyota owners. Not the most friendly people. As a matter of fact they were complete Adam Henry's.

For whatever reason they felt parking in the middle of the trail was a good idea and got really upset when folks asked them to move. After much argument they finally got their rigs out of the way. Meanwhile, the jeepers had no issues making room for those wanting to get by while Jeep waving to the rest of us who did.

I see you're not a Jeep owner so your opinion means nothing here but thanks for reaffirming my overall impressions of Toyota owners.

One more parting shot, when in a Fake Jeep, be sure to have a real one close by when going off-road -->
 

COBill

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Wow, calling other vehicles ugly, personal attacks on owners of other brands, and finally a personal attack aimed at me.

How mature.

For what it’s worth, I owned a TJ from 1997-2001 and it spent at least one day per month in my dealer’s garage for the entire period. The issues were never the same, so I couldn’t pursue a lemon law solution.

That’s precisely why I bought an FJ; I love Jeeps as a category but am not willing to go through the pain of owning one again until quality improves.

I could post numerous videos of FJs on Imogene, clips from the FJ Summit held in Ouray annually, but there’s little point as this isn’t an FJ vs. Wrangler thread at all.
 

four low

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Luckily, there are TSBs for both the front seat track issue, and the latch issue. Agree, it "shouldn't " happen, but there is a free fix for these now
Wow, calling other vehicles ugly, personal attacks on owners of other brands, and finally a personal attack aimed at me.

How mature.

For what it’s worth, I owned a TJ from 1997-2001 and it spent at least one day per month in my dealer’s garage for the entire period. The issues were never the same, so I couldn’t pursue a lemon law solution.

That’s precisely why I bought an FJ; I love Jeeps as a category but am not willing to go through the pain of owning one again until quality improves.

I could post numerous videos of FJs on Imogene, clips from the FJ Summit held in Ouray annually, but there’s little point as this isn’t an FJ vs. Wrangler thread at all.
OK, I have to ask ; you don't own a Jeep , have an FJ, but you are hanging out on a JL Forum....
Guess it's a "Jeep Envy " thing...
 

Sorbs

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OK, I have to ask ; you don't own a Jeep , have an FJ, but you are hanging out on a JL Forum....
Guess it's a "Jeep Envy " thing...
Bingo!
 
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