New 2021 Horrible Experience. Does FCA Even Care?

[gato]

I was considering a new 4Xe (I sold my JLUR last year), but now when I read these kinds of posts I get discouraged and worried to end up with same kind of problems. I know not all have the same issues, but I've read way too many posts by different people having issues with poor frame welds (had this on my JLUR), unresolvable problems due to lack of good knowledgeable dealers, and the steering issues (had this on my JLUR).

As far as I know, the auto transmission gasoline rubicon JL models have a single serious endemic unresolved issue - the locker position sensor going bad with oil contamination requiring either entire axle replacement (by dealer) or bypass harness from Z-automotive.

All other issues have either been resolved (e.g. welds, steering gear), are low probability events, or are annoyances (e.g. rear window defrost wire coming loose).

For manuals there is a clutch issue. For non-Rubicons with LSD there is a noise/wear issue. For diesels, well, if you choose all that extra weight and complexity on a vehicle that can't tow you must like pain

I took the plunge on my JLUR assuming that by the time I have locker problems the sensor will be available separately as a $25 part to fix. Other than that, I sleep well at night owning a JLUR, 2.0 Auto.

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[Rodeoflyer]

This will solve that problem https://www.amw4x4.com/product-p/z-locker-oem.htm

 

[Bilal074]

I just got a new Jeep 2021 Rubicon and every single plastic panel on the inside is not it the place that it needs to be. Either it’s not glued on well or the plastic trim panels on the left interior have a much larger gap the. The right side. The first time I have ever seen anything like this on a car. I have owned over 20 cars in my life by far this one is the worst quality slapped together POS that I have ever owned. It’s the last time I will ever buy a Jeep or anything else related to it. It’s really sad what you get for 70000 dollars.

I strongly encourage people to not buy anything from Jeed or Dodge. If you really want one fine but you can spend 70000$ in so many ways. A one year old porsche Macan which will not rust st the door hinges after one year of ownership.

I ordered a new 2021 JLU Rubicon fully built on 1/27. After delays and regressions in the process it arrived on 3/14, no big deal here, I have heard horror stories about the wait so this wasn’t that bad. They installed the Mopar lift kit I ordered with it and I picked it up on 3/19. That was the last time I was able to enjoy my new vehicle.

Within days I noticed a hard pull to the left. I called the dealer and made an appointment. I dropped it off at 7:30am and at 3:00pm I got a call that it was ready. I asked what was wrong, they told me they aligned the vehicle. I drove it off the service lot and same issue. Called back they got me in a week later. During the wait for that visit I noticed my passenger rear was drooping about 2 inches. When I took it in for the pulling issue I told them to look at the rear. They told me the rear replacement lift shock was bad. Then they said the issue with the pulling was the steering stabilizer so they were going to order both.

In the meantime I noticed an issue with my driver door not closing. It will close 1 out of 5 times without shutting it hard. So I looked and a nice grooved scratch was inside the door at the bottom. Turns out there is a big weld at the bottom of the door that is causing the door not to close and scratching the inside of the vehicle. So when a couple weeks later the rear shock and stabilizer came in I took the vehicle up to the dealer and showed them the issue with the door as well. The service manager said she would look at it. They called me at the end of the day and said all was done. I asked if the pulling was fixed, they said yes. I asked if the door was fixed, they said yes. I asked if the shock was fixed, they said yes. I went to the dealer and looked at the door. Nope, not fixed. I asked the service manager what was done. She said she put some rubbing compound on it and adjusted it. I opened and closed the door right in front of her and it didn’t close at all. I could not believe that she tried to pass this off as fixed. Then I asked what my options were, she said to fix it we would have to sub it out to a body shop and have the weld ground down then the door and the unibody in this section would have to be repainted but I would have to break the manufacturing paint. She kept shaking her head. Giving me the feeling that I should just live with this giant scratch that would eventually expose the metal in the body and the weld. I live in the north and if I do that here comes rust. I told her I would think about it. I drove off the lot and within a few seconds I noticed that the steering wheel was off about 15 degrees to the right. I then took it to the same flat road and it pulled so hard to the left I would be in the ditch in less than 10 seconds if I didn’t yank back to the right. Of course I called and made another appointment.

Waiting for the next appointment I was driving one night and all of the sudden all lights on my dash came on. Service Electronic Stability Control, 4x4, etc. Then after about 20 minutes and two restarts the lights all went off. I called the next day and they said come in. They fixed the alignment on the steering wheel and said they aligned the tires again. They said the dash light issue was a rear wheel sensor and they would have to order it. Again, drove off the lot. The steering wheel was straight but the pulling was still there. That’s when I got a Jeep case manager on it. They worked on it with the dealer and told me they would look at something during the next appointment when they replaced the rear wheel speed sensor. I took it in, they replaced the sensor. I don’t know what they actually did for the pulling this time but needless to say it didn’t fix it.

The case manager ran it up the chain and got a Star case started. The FCA techs told the dealer to check the Thrust Angle. I thought cool, maybe now it would be fixed. So I took it in again… Keep in mind all these times I have bee dropping it off at 7:30am. Then they call me at 2:30 to let me know they are just taking it back. Right before they close they call me and tell me it is done. I went in and asked the service manager what was done. He said the tech told him the loosened the control arms and axle bolts, they shoved it as far as it would go the other way, and then tighten the bolts to factory specs. I drove off the lot and it was worse. If I take my hands off the wheel I am in a ditch in 5-6 seconds every time to the left. I took a video and sent it to the higher case manager. Which I should have mentioned I was doing for both case managers. I sent them videos of the issues I was having.

This brings us to today. Today I met the Area Manager at the dealer. He, the service manager, and I went for a ride. We found a very flat road and I showed them the problem, over and over again. He was quiet and I think a little scared when we kept almost going in the ditch. Her answer, “well you can’t take your hands off the wheel.” This made me so angry. Me having to hold it straight is the problem. As I said 5-6 seconds to being completely in the ditch is NOT OK.

We went back to the dealer and talked. Keep in mind this is a 2021. He suggests replacing the Steering Gearbox. Then the service manager told me that they were 5 weeks out with appointments. There is absolutely no urgency on this issue. So now after all this time off of work and time without my brand new vehicle. There is going to have to be another appointment to replace a part that even on the spot with all of us the Lead Technician said probably won’t fix the issue. Then we go back in and I remind him of the door issue. He looks at the weld and the scratches. We are not talking a little issue. The main scratch (there are a few now) is a couple inches and as I said grooved. His initial response was to leave it. I showed him several times that the door did not close unless slammed. I explained about how it is digging into the paint and the metal will eventually be exposed. He finally agreed living in the same area that it would be affected by the salt in the winter. So now he suggests we take care of the steering gearbox and then visit the paint issue later. He then had enough nerve to ask me if I was happy. I said, No, Not At All but this is the plan.

So the twist to this entire story is that the same night I bought mine, my son bought the same exact same vehicle. Just a different color. This was an awesome Father Son experience. We both saved for our dream vehicles and it finally happened. His however, is perfect. No regression issues, No problems. He got his weeks earlier than I got mine. No steering issues at all.

Is this how FCA/Stellantis treats customers? Is this the experience they want people to have. I sure hope not. I would not wish this upon anyone. So now that it has been two months. My new vehicle is an unsafe chore to drive and all the fun has been stolen. I am not saying all experiences buying a Jeep Wrangler would be bad but mine was. It was like two different experiences with me and my son.

@JeepCares Your Thoughts?

I ordered a new 2021 JLU Rubicon fully built on 1/27. After delays and regressions in the process it arrived on 3/14, no big deal here, I have heard horror stories about the wait so this wasn’t that bad. They installed the Mopar lift kit I ordered with it and I picked it up on 3/19. That was the last time I was able to enjoy my new vehicle.

Within days I noticed a hard pull to the left. I called the dealer and made an appointment. I dropped it off at 7:30am and at 3:00pm I got a call that it was ready. I asked what was wrong, they told me they aligned the vehicle. I drove it off the service lot and same issue. Called back they got me in a week later. During the wait for that visit I noticed my passenger rear was drooping about 2 inches. When I took it in for the pulling issue I told them to look at the rear. They told me the rear replacement lift shock was bad. Then they said the issue with the pulling was the steering stabilizer so they were going to order both.

In the meantime I noticed an issue with my driver door not closing. It will close 1 out of 5 times without shutting it hard. So I looked and a nice grooved scratch was inside the door at the bottom. Turns out there is a big weld at the bottom of the door that is causing the door not to close and scratching the inside of the vehicle. So when a couple weeks later the rear shock and stabilizer came in I took the vehicle up to the dealer and showed them the issue with the door as well. The service manager said she would look at it. They called me at the end of the day and said all was done. I asked if the pulling was fixed, they said yes. I asked if the door was fixed, they said yes. I asked if the shock was fixed, they said yes. I went to the dealer and looked at the door. Nope, not fixed. I asked the service manager what was done. She said she put some rubbing compound on it and adjusted it. I opened and closed the door right in front of her and it didn’t close at all. I could not believe that she tried to pass this off as fixed. Then I asked what my options were, she said to fix it we would have to sub it out to a body shop and have the weld ground down then the door and the unibody in this section would have to be repainted but I would have to break the manufacturing paint. She kept shaking her head. Giving me the feeling that I should just live with this giant scratch that would eventually expose the metal in the body and the weld. I live in the north and if I do that here comes rust. I told her I would think about it. I drove off the lot and within a few seconds I noticed that the steering wheel was off about 15 degrees to the right. I then took it to the same flat road and it pulled so hard to the left I would be in the ditch in less than 10 seconds if I didn’t yank back to the right. Of course I called and made another appointment.

Waiting for the next appointment I was driving one night and all of the sudden all lights on my dash came on. Service Electronic Stability Control, 4x4, etc. Then after about 20 minutes and two restarts the lights all went off. I called the next day and they said come in. They fixed the alignment on the steering wheel and said they aligned the tires again. They said the dash light issue was a rear wheel sensor and they would have to order it. Again, drove off the lot. The steering wheel was straight but the pulling was still there. That’s when I got a Jeep case manager on it. They worked on it with the dealer and told me they would look at something during the next appointment when they replaced the rear wheel speed sensor. I took it in, they replaced the sensor. I don’t know what they actually did for the pulling this time but needless to say it didn’t fix it.

The case manager ran it up the chain and got a Star case started. The FCA techs told the dealer to check the Thrust Angle. I thought cool, maybe now it would be fixed. So I took it in again… Keep in mind all these times I have bee dropping it off at 7:30am. Then they call me at 2:30 to let me know they are just taking it back. Right before they close they call me and tell me it is done. I went in and asked the service manager what was done. He said the tech told him the loosened the control arms and axle bolts, they shoved it as far as it would go the other way, and then tighten the bolts to factory specs. I drove off the lot and it was worse. If I take my hands off the wheel I am in a ditch in 5-6 seconds every time to the left. I took a video and sent it to the higher case manager. Which I should have mentioned I was doing for both case managers. I sent them videos of the issues I was having.

This brings us to today. Today I met the Area Manager at the dealer. He, the service manager, and I went for a ride. We found a very flat road and I showed them the problem, over and over again. He was quiet and I think a little scared when we kept almost going in the ditch. Her answer, “well you can’t take your hands off the wheel.” This made me so angry. Me having to hold it straight is the problem. As I said 5-6 seconds to being completely in the ditch is NOT OK.

We went back to the dealer and talked. Keep in mind this is a 2021. He suggests replacing the Steering Gearbox. Then the service manager told me that they were 5 weeks out with appointments. There is absolutely no urgency on this issue. So now after all this time off of work and time without my brand new vehicle. There is going to have to be another appointment to replace a part that even on the spot with all of us the Lead Technician said probably won’t fix the issue. Then we go back in and I remind him of the door issue. He looks at the weld and the scratches. We are not talking a little issue. The main scratch (there are a few now) is a couple inches and as I said grooved. His initial response was to leave it. I showed him several times that the door did not close unless slammed. I explained about how it is digging into the paint and the metal will eventually be exposed. He finally agreed living in the same area that it would be affected by the salt in the winter. So now he suggests we take care of the steering gearbox and then visit the paint issue later. He then had enough nerve to ask me if I was happy. I said, No, Not At All but this is the plan.

So the twist to this entire story is that the same night I bought mine, my son bought the same exact same vehicle. Just a different color. This was an awesome Father Son experience. We both saved for our dream vehicles and it finally happened. His however, is perfect. No regression issues, No problems. He got his weeks earlier than I got mine. No steering issues at all.

Is this how FCA/Stellantis treats customers? Is this the experience they want people to have. I sure hope not. I would not wish this upon anyone. So now that it has been two months. My new vehicle is an unsafe chore to drive and all the fun has been stolen. I am not saying all experiences buying a Jeep Wrangler would be bad but mine was. It was like two different experiences with me and my son.

@JeepCares Your Thoughts?

 

[Mtpockets]

I just got a new Jeep 2021 Rubicon and every single plastic panel on the inside is not it the place that it needs to be. Either it’s not glued on well or the plastic trim panels on the left interior have a much larger gap the. The right side. The first time I have ever seen anything like this on a car. I have owned over 20 cars in my life by far this one is the worst quality slapped together POS that I have ever owned. It’s the last time I will ever buy a Jeep or anything else related to it. It’s really sad what you get for 70000 dollars.

I strongly encourage people to not buy anything from Jeep or Dodge. If you really want one fine but you can spend 70000$ in so many ways. A one year old porsche Macan which will not rust st the door hinges after one year of ownership.

can you post pics of the problems?

 

[SoK66]

FCA is one colossal mess right now. Their dealer service departments are buried in technical issues across the line, Jeep in particular. Add to it a poorly run dealer like you're dealing with and it's unbearable for the consumer. Best thing to do is cut bait. Get a Lemon Law case going per your State's process and get out of the thing.

 

[JeepCares]

Good idea, working on getting in touch with the dealer and case manager today. Going to suggest this.

Hi, Ralph. I apologize for the delay here. If you'd like to send me a private message that includes your case number, I can certainly update the notes to reflect your outreach or provide any details.

Kate
Jeep Cares

 

[Rodeoflyer]

I just got a new Jeep 2021 Rubicon and every single plastic panel on the inside is not it the place that it needs to be.

What?? lol That sounds crazy. I have a friend who will ONLY drive German cars. He married a woman who loved jeeps. He eventually talked her out of the Jeep JKU (which he called a massive pos of course), into an M3 and they also have an X5 family hauler. He has a 2018 911 GT3 RS as well. He purchased a 2019 Raptor, put over 100k into suspension mods, then decided it was also a pos and sold it.

So, obviously nothing compares to German cars in his mind and that's that.

 

[JRINGO77]

What?? lol That sounds crazy. I have a friend who will ONLY drive German cars. He married a woman who loved jeeps. He eventually talked her out of the Jeep JKU (which he called a massive pos of course), into an M3 and they also have an X5 family hauler. He has a 2018 911 GT3 RS as well. He purchased a 2019 Raptor, put over 100k into suspension mods, then decided it was also a pos and sold it.

So, obviously nothing compares to German cars in his mind and that's that.

You should have him follow you down Black Bear in the X5 see what he thinks then

 

[Rodeoflyer]

You should have him follow you down Black Bear in the X5 see what he thinks then

He would be more apt to buy a g-wagon for that. That would also be interesting to see.

 

[JRINGO77]

He would be more apt to buy a g-wagon for that. That would also be interesting to see.

Those are gross and although better chance than the X5 to make it they have no flex he'd roll that thing too. We did that trail last year I'd be nervous to do it in anything with IFS or sway bars still connected. Having a shoes on the ground is kind of important.

 

[maxmxa]

Jeep doesn't care!

I think Jeep Cares is just a formality to show others that Jeep really seeks customer satisfaction and helps people resolve their issues with the product. In reality, it doesn't seem to make one bit of difference. Most of the dealerships don't have a clue about their product and they do anything to get rid of the customer after they sell them a vehicle or service. You are basically on your own to come up with a way to fix things at your own time and expense.

 

[Rrr8400]

I think Jeep Cares is just a formality to show others that Jeep really seeks customer satisfaction and helps people resolve their issues with the product. In reality, it doesn't seem to make one bit of difference. Most of the dealerships don't have a clue about their product and they do anything to get rid of the customer after they sell them a vehicle or service. You are basically on your own to come up with a way to fix things at your own time and expense.

I am also wondering if this is the case... I currently have a case open and while they have made appts for me I'm not sure what else they offer. Very slow to get back to me even when I return a call right away and when I have asked specific questions about help getting to a dealer that has dealt with the problem I am having they say they don't have that information. Does anyone have an experience where JeepCares has made a big difference or is it mostly lip service?

 

[Notorious]

@JeepCares is the human, most likely college graduate/intern, very small, limited customer facing support mechanism of a very large, grand company.

Sadly, these human beings are the undeserving recipients of some of the most hateful, vile, dung filled comments projected at them by upset owners.

Buyers with issues on their factory built rigs want accountability but there isn’t really a support structure in place on where to go to get it.

The solve is expensive yet easy: establish MAJOR FCA service hubs across the nation, staffed with white and blue collar shirts, certified service managers and certified mechanics. Every employee should be expertly trained to be able to take apart the Wrangler and put it all back together flawlessly - every nut and bolt in proper location and torqued to spec.

They understand what every part is, what it does, how it functions, how it is supposed to, how it can malfunction and what are the consequences and implications if the part, either electrical or mechanical, fails.

Having something like the above would help rebuild the brand but it would also be ridiculously expensive - how could it be sustainable?

 

[grokshot]

There is nothing to "align" on a stock (or Mopar lifted) JL that will change pull to one side. Only two things can be adjusted: tie-rod length to control total toe, and draglink length to center the steering wheel.

What causes pulling with the Mopar lift is a combination of bound control arms (from not loosening and torquing on the ground), slightly off center/rotated axles (again causing bind in the control arms).

Properly set adjustable track bars, good spring perches and properly set up spring, properly torqued control arms and properly set drag link, should eliminate all pull.

I have an appointment Thursday with them. I will definitely bring this up.

 

[gato]

@JeepCares ..staffed with white and blue collar shirts, certified service managers and certified mechanics. Every employee should be expertly trained to be able to take apart the Wrangler and put it all back together flawlessly - every nut and bolt in proper location and torqued to spec.

LOL. Show me a human or group of humans who can execute any task "flawlessly" every time!!!!

Highly trained surgeons sometimes amputate the wrong leg by mistake. They sometimes leave surgical instruments inside patients. Highly trained professional pilots sometimes fly their planes into the side of a mountain or run out of fuel despite multiple back up systems.

There is *NO* magic solution. You need to find a good enough organization (dealership), staffed by good enough people (service technicians), that will do a good enough job, a good percentage of the time. And you need to educate yourself and participate constructively in the process as much as possible, including using outside paid experts (e.g. paint shop) to supplement dealers.

Expecting perfection from humans is a *horrible* life plan.

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