My One Question for Mark Allen: Why No V8?

[WaltA]

The only thing keeping the diesel out of the U.S. prior to this has been the EPA, not engineering, packaging, or safety concerns like you have with the Hemi.

How about sales? FCA CEO Sergio stated a while back that he would never support having a diesel in other vehicle, until the Grand Cherokee diesel's domestic sales at least double. There are a lot of R&D expenses, and you need a business plan that shows that sales will be enough to cover these expenses.

I am sure that this would be factored in to any Hemi offering too.

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[Billy]

How about sales? FCA CEO Sergio stated a while back that he would never support having a diesel in other vehicle, until the Grand Cherokee diesel's domestic sales at least double. There are a lot of R&D expenses, and you need a business plan that shows that sales will be enough to cover these expenses.

I am sure that this would be factored in to any Hemi offering too.

I think the $4500 upcharge covers the cost of the program.

 

[maxmk8]

Did we discuss why the Viper V10 was not used? Obviously, the viper is going away this is a no brainer.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Actually, the initial assumption was that Jeep would stick with the 2.8L that it had been using already, and GM is now having success with it also, and therefore fitment issues with the diesel were not a hot topic. Even so, a 3.0L V6 is much easier to fit than a 5.7L V8, so this argument still stands. The Hemi won't work from a packaging standpoint.

No it’s not the 2.8, the original comment was concerning the 3.0L and you then attrbute that to the Hemi, which you’ve never provided the quote you keep referring to.
Here’s the EcoDiesel quote from Robert Sheaves;

“Why not just use a VM V6 diesel with an eight speed? The engine does not fit. However, there are other diesel engines which might be possible — and we will discuss those later.”

https://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/wrangler/future/weight.html

as the 2.8L already existed in the Wrangler, so it was not a question. The HEMI not only already existed in both 5.7 and 6.4 form in the AEV in the existing bay, MOPAR provided the kit for those two engines since at least 2012.
http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=13374&mid=

Did they ever provide and EcoDiesel kit, or did they simply write it off as not being possible... from a packaging standpoint?

Everything you are claiming is countered by the facts about the Hemis already on the Wrangler platform and the lack of that same support for the EcoDiesel in the JK.

And your analogy with the diesel and V8 offerings is apples to oranges. There has been a diesel JK for a decade...

You can claim export market all you want, but again, no North American Diesel Wrangler... so there never will be one of course.

but there never has been a V8 JK anywhere.

Yes there’s has... it’s called the Easter Safari... and they’ve had many Hemi Powered JK(U)s and Wranglers, showing it can be done pretty easily within FCA and that even they know that there is an interest in them or they wouldn’t keep shocasing them as a major focus of those concepts.

Which is also douchey of FCA to do, because again they see the value in mating the two, and show they can quite easily put the V8 in there, and have them as their personal engineering vehicles, but heaven for fend they should ever offer them to customers who’ve been clamoring for them at least as long and loudly as the diesels.

The only thing keeping the diesel out of the U.S. prior to this has been the EPA, not engineering, packaging, or safety concerns like you have with the Hemi.

The only thing inhibiting the Hemi is CAFE, and as the Hell-Tracks have shown, that’s an issue that can be easily dealt with too.

As for your engineering/safety comments, like I said, produce the quote you keep referencing from Bob Sheaves you keep referring to but never can point anyone to. More than likely you’re confusing the quote above and applying it to the Hemi in a tighter JK, and not a larger JL engine bay and drivetrain.

 

[offcamber]

You base this on what? I would love the Hemi option that the Grand Cherokee has. I would venture to guess that there is a bigger market for a Hemi than the diesel.

Why? The 3.0L Diesel will smoke the hemi. We have a 2014 GC Diesel and it is faster than any hemi GC save the SRT's. The Hemi GC doesn't break 0-60 in 7 seconds and our diesel does it in 6.2 seconds...

 

[enright]

From a former chief engineer: There will be no Hemi for the Wrangler because they can't shoe-horn it into the engine bay with the 8-speed auto. They already had to stretch JL just to fit the current engines with the new trans. Clearances for brake booster, etc. would be too tight and crash testing wouldn't go the way they want. Also, it doesn't meet CAFE standards. FCA is already looking at ditching the Hemi from every product they sell except full size trucks and muscle cars. Also, there's no need. The EcoDiesel makes more torque than the Hemi and the Pentastar is capable of 300+ horsepower which puts them firmly within target for the vehicle.

Ahh - that's what I was looking for. Do you have a link to the interview? Clearances and engineering challenges I can understand. Makes me feel a bit better - I always wonder why some product choices that are obviously in huge demand never make it to market.

Disagree on "no need" though. There's always a need for more - torque, horsepower - why not have both in one powertrain? One can dream...

 

[theplankeye]

There is no way they are going to put a V8 in there just to have to pry people from it when it is no longer feasible due to regulations. Ford got their teeth knocked out, whether they admit it or not, by shoving the turbo V6 Raptor down everyone's throats. They can continue as-is with no backlash about taking it away later. Jeep can already charge a premium for the V6 with higher trim levels. Secondly, there is an added cost of development to put the V8 in. The extra profit may just break even with those costs. There are huge dollars in engineering, testing, and supply. An extra line of engines has to snake its way onto an already crowded assembly line.

There is no incentive due to added development cost and the regulation issue down the road is very problematic. The extra profit is not enough to offset the downside.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Why? The 3.0L Diesel will smoke the hemi. We have a 2014 GC Diesel and it is faster than any hemi GC save the SRT's. The Hemi GC doesn't break 0-60 in 7 seconds and our diesel does it in 6.2 seconds...

Interesting no one making those claims can seem to share any highly respected reviews with similar results.

Instead the reviews usually find the opposite with the Ecodiesel GC clocking in the high 7.x seconds and the 5.7L Hemi GC getting closer to mid 6 seconds.

MotorTrend got 7.8 seconds with their GC EcoDiesel
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/jeep...014-jeep-grand-cherokee-ecodiesel-first-test/

yet they got 7.7 seconds for the Pentastar and 6.6 seconds for the Hemi
http://www.trucktrend.com/truck-reviews/163-1309-2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-v-6-and-v-8-first-tests/

So for them the EcoDiesel was the slowest of the 3.

Same 6.5-ish Hemi time at Car & Driver;
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-hemi-v-8-test-review

So must be something wrong with your timer.

I can easily see the EcoDiesel beating the Pentastar depending on the day, as a tenth of a second here or there is nothing surprising, but the EcoDiesel isn’t going to be beating the Hemi, and especially not inverting the results and somehow slowing the Hemi down to Pentastar speeds.

Unless of course you can provide a credible reviewing showing that?

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Jeep can already charge a premium for the V6 with higher trim levels. Secondly, there is an added cost of development to put the V8 in.

There is no incentive due to added development cost and the regulation issue down the road is very problematic.

All things that can be said about the diesel. Added cost & future regulatory barriers that are removing more and more diesels from the marketplace.

 

[kidney]

The 5.7L Hemi is rumored to slowly die off in the next few years. I think twin turbos are going to be the future and more manufacturers are going to follow the Ecoboost and start boosting the smaller 6s for V8 replacements. V8s are heavy and suck down gas so they are really starting to disappear.

GME T6 should debut in new Jeep WS and will be in new WL.

 

[kidney]

And yet again, this comment needs correcting, that was before they stretched the JL to accomodate the 8-speed and diesel. In that same comment you like to quote he was even more dismissive of the Ecodiesel ever fitting in the Wrangler as it needed more space, so that statement no longer applies.

Ah, Bob Sheaves and his predictions.

He took the point where EcoDiesel is identical to existing one.
One interesting part. EcoDiesel engine block is shorter in length than Pentastar and much shorter compared to HEMI.
So that most likely repackaged the engine.

And also. He never said that front wheels on a new Wrangler would be moved forward.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Ah, Bob Sheaves and his predictions.

And also. He never said that front wheels on a new Wrangler would be moved forward.

Exactly, his comments at the time were from an earlier development stage of Wrangler, and no longer apply to either engine regarding dimensions / limitations.

 

[nowandthen]

Snip

The HEMI not only already existed in both 5.7 and 6.4 form in the AEV in the existing bay, MOPAR provided the kit for those two engines since at least 2012.
http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=13374&mid=

Snip

Everything you are claiming is countered by the facts about the Hemis already on the Wrangler platform and the lack of that same support for the EcoDiesel in the JK.

Snip

Yes there’s has... it’s called the Easter Safari... and they’ve had many Hemi Powered JK(U)s and Wranglers, showing it can be done pretty easily within FCA and that even they know that there is an interest in them or they wouldn’t keep shocasing them as a major focus of those concepts.

Which is also douchey of FCA to do, because again they see the value in mating the two, and show they can quite easily put the V8 in there, and have them as their personal engineering vehicles, but heaven for fend they should ever offer them to customers who’ve been clamoring for them at least as long and loudly as the diesels.

My thoughts exactly, AEV puts Hemi's in JKs. Let's see if they do the same for the JL. However I won't pay the AEV price for a Hemi and it may have CARB issues in California. If it were factory, then it would be a different story, more economical (compared to AEV price), and would meet Claifornia CARB requirements.

I want to believe there will be a Hemi JL. Paraphrasing from the cowardly lion, I do believe, I do believe, I do, I do, I do.

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