My One Question for Mark Allen: Why No V8?

BillyHW

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Hypothetically speaking, what would a Hemi JL get for MPG?

 

nowandthen

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I can't answer that, but there have been posts about how hard a turbo 4 has to work to maintain speed into a headwind. It's constantly in boost mode which kills mileage. A V8 wouldn't have to work as hard as the turbo 4 and likely not as hard as the V6. But I am no expert, just extrapolating. Mileage has to be worse than the V6, especially if you put your foot into it a lot, something I'd be hard pressed not to do :) but I can't imagine it would be much worse.

I would gladly pay higher fuel costs and higher vehicle cost to have a 5.7L Hemi.
 

BillyHW

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I can't answer that, but there have been posts about how hard a turbo 4 has to work to maintain speed into a headwind. It's constantly in boost mode which kills mileage. A V8 wouldn't have to work as hard as the turbo 4 and likely not as hard as the V6. But I am no expert, just extrapolating. Mileage has to be worse than the V6, especially if you put your foot into it a lot, something I'd be hard pressed not to do :) but I can't imagine it would be much worse.

I would gladly pay higher fuel costs and higher vehicle cost to have a 5.7L Hemi.
I would also pay the higher fuel costs, but would want a larger gas tank to keep the range the same at least.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Hypothetically speaking, what would a Hemi JL get for MPG?
IMO based on looking at RAM, Charger, GC numbers etc, it’d be right next to the Pentastar in EPA testing, likely -1 or so on each metric; however in the real world with cylinder de-activation and the V8 likely to do 75MPH/120KPH (BC speed of course not advocating speeding ;)) without breaking a sweat, I think you’d find the Hemi close the gap with the Pentastar and possibly cross over.

However the diesel again would likely be the far and away EPA winner by a few MPG, and that’s the current ED, I don’t know what they are doing to Gen2/Rev3 to get the 30MPG figure mentioned, but as the Ram 1500 2WD/4WD gets 27 hwy, there must be some major fuel economy measures coming in the next gen EcoDiesel as the Current RAM 1500 Pentastar matches the JLU’s hwy mileage, and it’s EcoDiesel brother is 27MPG, so it’ll be interesting to see where they find that 3MPG.
 
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The Great Grape Ape

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I would also pay the higher fuel costs, but would want a larger gas tank to keep the range the same at least.
For the price difference of the Hemi vs EcoDiesel on the RAM or GC, you could add a 10-20 USGal (40-75L) extended fuel tank to add 50-100% more fuel and provide greater range than even the new efficient EcoDiesel.
 


Armycop

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Hypothetically speaking, what would a Hemi JL get for MPG?
The Hemingway Grand Cherokee only gets 14 city/20 hwy. So probably minus 1 city and minus 3 hwy 13/17.
 

Carlton_Banks

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A Hemi would be my top engine choice. Horsepower plus torque. Can't beat that. I like to build my jeeps up. The last one was on 40s. With the Pentastar you have to gear so low for it to be responsive and it is annoying oon the highway. With a Hemi that wouldn't be necessary.
 

Niteshooter

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IMO based on looking at RAM, Charger, GC numbers etc, it’d be right next to the Pentastar in EPA testing, likely -1 or so on each metric; however in the real world with cylinder de-activation and the V8 likely to do 75MPH/120KPH (BC speed of course not advocating speeding ;)) without breaking a sweat, I think you’d find the Hemi close the gap with the Pentastar and possibly cross over.

However the diesel again would likely be the far and away EPA winner by a few MPG, and that’s the current ED, I don’t know what they are doing to Gen2/Rev3 to get the 30MPG figure mentioned, but as the Ram 1500 2WD/4WD gets 27 hwy, there must be some major fuel economy measures coming in the next gen EcoDiesel as the Current RAM 1500 Pentastar matches the JLU’s hwy mileage, and it’s EcoDiesel brother is 27MPG, so it’ll be interesting to see where they find that 3MPG.
Good that you mentioned that the Hemi deactivates 4 cylinders which we don't even notice on the highway the 8 speed transmission also helps keep things running smoothly. The Hemi in the Ram does indeed do 120 KPH without breaking a sweat and if you don't set the cruise to a legal speed it is easy to start creeping past t
 

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As I've stated before, I'd rather have a Hemi 5.7+ than any of the other offerings in my JLU. I'd bet your bucks that the take rate would exceed the others. Hemi no chance, no Turbo 4's for me, don't want to wait and the Diesel scares me, Electric when they
pry the pump outa my dead hand leaves me with the Pentastar.
 

WXman

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We kicked this dead horse around all summer.

From a former chief engineer: There will be no Hemi for the Wrangler because they can't shoe-horn it into the engine bay with the 8-speed auto. They already had to stretch JL just to fit the current engines with the new trans. Clearances for brake booster, etc. would be too tight and crash testing wouldn't go the way they want. Also, it doesn't meet CAFE standards. FCA is already looking at ditching the Hemi from every product they sell except full size trucks and muscle cars. Also, there's no need. The EcoDiesel makes more torque than the Hemi and the Pentastar is capable of 300+ horsepower which puts them firmly within target for the vehicle.

There hasn't been a factory V8 Wrangler ever. And there won't be. If you want a factory V8 Jeep, start shopping CJs.
 


The Great Grape Ape

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From a former chief engineer: There will be no Hemi for the Wrangler because they can't shoe-horn it into the engine bay with the 8-speed auto.
And yet again, this comment needs correcting, that was before they stretched the JL to accomodate the 8-speed and diesel. In that same comment you like to quote he was even more dismissive of the Ecodiesel ever fitting in the Wrangler as it needed more space, so that statement no longer applies.

Also, there's no need. The EcoDiesel makes more torque than the Hemi and the Pentastar is capable of 300+ horsepower which puts them firmly within target for the vehicle.
Again, there’s no need for 5 different engine on the GC or Charger/Challenge, yet they are there.

2 of the 3 Wrangler engine options sit right beside each other. If anything either the Pentastar or TinyTurbo4 isn’t needed. A Hemi and a NA 4 make far more sense to the lineup, especially when FCA sees the money left on the table being given to folks like AEV etc. The market for the Hemi is the people not wiphinning about price every 3 seconds about every little upgrade, because most people wanting a Hemi would oay the diesel tax in a heartbeat, because the alternative is many times that through a 3rd party.

There hasn't been a factory V8 Wrangler ever. And there won't be. If you want a factory V8 Jeep, start shopping CJs.
Again, this same logic applies to the diesel. There has never been an N.Am. diesel Wrangler... so there won’t be...

As much as the Hemi isn’t coming, any argument you have for why it doesn’t work on the Wrangler platform applies to the diesel as well, the only thing in the diesel’s favour is the externality of CAFE, and once again if they can make a Dodge Demon and all the Cats/Hawks and SRTs work, an SE Hemi is not a challenge either.
 

PavementWarrior

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So the JL will eventually have 4 powertrain options, and none of them are a V8. And this from the same company that has a penchant for jamming 700 horsepower engines in everything from sedans to SUVs.
a 285 hp v6 is more powerful than several V8s I have owned in the past.
 

Billy

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I wonder how sales would go if they only spec'd the diesel (Like the sprinter for example).

Ape would be out, we know this, but what would the general public think?
 

WXman

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And yet again, this comment needs correcting, that was before they stretched the JL to accomodate the 8-speed and diesel. In that same comment you like to quote he was even more dismissive of the Ecodiesel ever fitting in the Wrangler as it needed more space, so that statement no longer applies.


Again, this same logic applies to the diesel. There has never been an N.Am. diesel Wrangler... so there won’t be...

As much as the Hemi isn’t coming, any argument you have for why it doesn’t work on the Wrangler platform applies to the diesel as well, the only thing in the diesel’s favour is the externality of CAFE, and once again if they can make a Dodge Demon and all the Cats/Hawks and SRTs work, an SE Hemi is not a challenge either.
Actually, the initial assumption was that Jeep would stick with the 2.8L that it had been using already, and GM is now having success with it also, and therefore fitment issues with the diesel were not a hot topic. Even so, a 3.0L V6 is much easier to fit than a 5.7L V8, so this argument still stands. The Hemi won't work from a packaging standpoint.

And your analogy with the diesel and V8 offerings is apples to oranges. There has been a diesel JK for a decade, but there never has been a V8 JK anywhere. Two totally different things. The only thing keeping the diesel out of the U.S. prior to this has been the EPA, not engineering, packaging, or safety concerns like you have with the Hemi.
 

WaltA

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What about a Hemi and AWD/4WD? I know that FCA dropped the AWD option from the Charger Hemi R/T's.

Would Wrangler owners really enjoy having the Quadra-Trac AOD system?

 

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