My first reactions from 4xe Wrangler test drive!

[moments.by.ron]

Can you measure the wall behind the seat for us? It has an 8" sub so if I had to guess its somwhere around 4"?

That grille is going to be more like 10"-11" if it's an 8" sub, so I'm guessing that wall is closer to 6-7".

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[Harleexl]

Can you measure the wall behind the seat for us? It has an 8" sub so if I had to guess its somwhere around 4"?

The subwoofer grille is close to 12 inches across. Here's a photo that might help you.

 

[BTA]

The subwoofer grille is close to 12 inches across. Here's a photo that might help you.

This might be a bit more of an in depth question, but any idea on how easy it looks to remove the flipped up lower seat cushions?

 

[VNT]

So FCA gets a total of 200k kickbacks. when they reach the limit, how do the Feds/IRS track this, by the VIN# of the 200000 vehichle or first to file and claim the credit on their taxes??? I could see people buying in 2022 for example buying one and filing their 2022 taxes in 2023 and not getting the credit because people filed before them and ate up all the credits, so does anyone know how this works?

 

[BTA]

So FCA gets a total of 200k kickbacks. when they reach the limit, how do the Feds/IRS track this, by the VIN# of the 200000 vehichle or first to file and claim the credit on their taxes??? I could see people buying in 2022 for example buying one and filing their 2022 taxes in 2023 and not getting the credit because people filed before them and ate up all the credits, so does anyone know how this works?

it's not technically just 200k units. After the first 200k vehicles are sold the manufacturer enters a phase out period and an expiration date is applied. So long as you buy the vehicle prior to the expiration date for the tax credit you're in the clear.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d

 

[VNT]

so is this date relative to the vin when built or in service when you purchase, so when you file the IRS sees you made the cut off date. there has to be something to prove you made the cut off. I would think it would have to be indexed to the 200000 credit and everyone files roughly the same time, so say there are only 5000 credits remaining and 20000 folks file and they arrive the same day, how does the IRS determine who gets the remaining 5000 credits

 

[Ron93YJ]

I know that you already mentioned that you didn’t check gas mileage on a full tank, but do you have any guesstimates at all on what the gas mileage is like when just driving in hybrid mode? Lower than the standard range on a 2.0T? About the same? Better? Thanks!

 

[eLECTRICON]

The subwoofer grille is close to 12 inches across. Here's a photo that might help you.

Yes that's perfect thank you! I want to pre order a custom made drawer system to be fairly close to that hight.

 

[Jeeperz Kreeperz]

so is this date relative to the vin when built or in service when you purchase, so when you file the IRS sees you made the cut off date. there has to be something to prove you made the cut off. I would think it would have to be indexed to the 200000 credit and everyone files roughly the same time, so say there are only 5000 credits remaining and 20000 folks file and they arrive the same day, how does the IRS determine who gets the remaining 5000 credits

Date of credit is not based on build date, nor is it based on your tax filing date. It is the date you acquire the vehicle.

And you’re thinking of the 200,000 number as if it’s a hard limit. It’s actually just a threshold, that sets in motion the phaseout. Once that particular manufacturer sells 200,000 qualifying EVs in the US, then anyone who buys one from that manufacturer for that current calendar quarter, AND the following calendar quarter - will receive the full credit (in the case of the 4xe, the full $7,500). Since the manufacturer reports these EV sales to the IRS, the IRS posts an announcement stating that the manufacturer reached their 200,000th qualifying EV in the calendar quarter ending DD/MM/YYYY. Therefore, you will have time to get into a showroom, and consummate a deal prior to the end of the following quarter to get your full credit.

At the start of the second calendar quarter, after the quarter in which the 200,000th unit was sold in the US, the phaseout begins: For that quarter, and the next one - all purchasers of qualifying EVs from that manufacturer would receive 50% of the originally allowed credit. Then starting in the following two quarters, the credit gets chopped in half again, to 25% of the original credit. Then, a full 5+ quarters after the 200,000th EV was sold, the credit disappears.

As you can see, a hypothetical auto manufacturer could hit the 200,000th EV in January of 2022, then the full credit would be available through 6/30/2022. During that period, they could sell thousands more above the 200,000 - with all buyers receiving the full credit. The 50% phaseout would be in place for purchases dated 7/1/2022 - 12/31/2022. The 25% phaseout would be in place for purchases dated 1/1/2023 - 6/30/2023.

 

[Harleexl]

I know that you already mentioned that you didn’t check gas mileage on a full tank, but do you have any guesstimates at all on what the gas mileage is like when just driving in hybrid mode? Lower than the standard range on a 2.0T? About the same? Better? Thanks!

It's hard to put an answer to that, since the powertrain uses different variables which define how much or how often the ICE will run. Even in hybrid mode it can run much like it's set for electric mode until the battery SOC reaches low level. My opinion is, generally speaking, that you will see better mpg due to the electric assist before reaching low SOC, then with low SOC it's somewhere close to the range I was seeing with my 2.0T etorque.

*Hopefully everybody understands that 50MPGe does not mean you will be averaging 50MPG on a tankful of gas.
MPGe is an energy efficiency rating that I can't even explain but the information is available if searched.

 

[Ron93YJ]

It's hard to put an answer to that, since the powertrain uses different variables which define how much or how often the ICE will run. Even in hybrid mode it can run much like it's set for electric mode until the battery SOC reaches low level. My opinion is, generally speaking, that you will see better mpg due to the electric assist before reaching low SOC, then with low SOC it's somewhere close to the range I was seeing with my 2.0T etorque.

*Hopefully everybody understands that 50MPGe does not mean you will be averaging 50MPG on a tankful of gas.
MPGe is an energy efficiency rating that I can't even explain but the information is available if searched.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I’m confused on how this particular engine setup works. My only experience with a hybrid vehicle is our RAV4 hybrid (non PHEV) where the battery is charged by the ICE when it gets low enough but is constantly being recharged when you are coasting (or off the gas pedal in general). The gas mileage is fairly consistent because the battery never really is allowed to get too low and you don’t ever really notice when the ICE is charging the battery.

 

[VNT]

Jeeperz Keeperz

Thank you for the explanation, are you a tax accountant??

 

[Jeeperz Kreeperz]

Jeeperz Keeperz

Thank you for the explanation, are you a tax accountant??

No, I don’t file tax returns for clients. But I am in a related field, and do spend a lot of time in the tax code in my profession. And I review more than 100 client tax returns each year, and provide advice to those clients. And this is an issue we’ve researched extensively.

Obviously, all of the typical disclaimers apply:

• This is general advice - not specific to your situation.
• This is a non-refundable credit, NOT a refundable credit, meaning you‘ll only be eligible for the full credit if you have tax liability (not to be confused with tax bill due at tax filing time) equal to, or exceeding the amount of the credit.
• Be sure to vet any advice you read on the internet with your tax advisor

Glad to be of help!

 

[Wendao]

Yeah, a bit disappointing to find out about the CVRP disqualification! I think they added all these new requirements in the past couple years, because, by and large, only well-heeled Tesla owners were taking advantage.

The requirement for the HOV lane access decal is a bit less limited, though the 4xe isn't explicitly listed there yet. Depending on your income level, you might be eligible for only one or the other between the rebate or the decal (in any CVRP-qualifying vehicle, not just the 4xe). I'm trying to convince myself that I'd have chosen the decal anyway, so I feel less bad about missing out (but, fine, I'm lying to myself).

I believe the federal credit IS in fact $7500, however. I'll need to double-check in case I missed something.

I'm gonna call whoever administers the Clean Fuel Reward and see if I can still grab the $1500, even if I didn't buy from a participating dealership. Long shot, but worth a try, I suppose...

Any luck with clean fuel reward? I am thinking about applying this as well, my dealer is out of California so wasn't on participated list and I do live and will register car in California.

 

[Getmadboy]

It's hard to put an answer to that, since the powertrain uses different variables which define how much or how often the ICE will run. Even in hybrid mode it can run much like it's set for electric mode until the battery SOC reaches low level. My opinion is, generally speaking, that you will see better mpg due to the electric assist before reaching low SOC, then with low SOC it's somewhere close to the range I was seeing with my 2.0T etorque.

*Hopefully everybody understands that 50MPGe does not mean you will be averaging 50MPG on a tankful of gas.
MPGe is an energy efficiency rating that I can't even explain but the information is available if searched.

Noob here...can someone tell me what ICE means?