My 392 Rubicon order is showing a price now ($77k) !!!

[twisty]

Won't happen. Again don't know his bill but it could be for just new cars. There is zero chance in our lifetime you are going to completely ban an ICE vehicle on the road. There are BILLIONS maybe TRILLIONS of dollars worth of cars on the road you really think all of a sudden you will just have to take your ICE to the dump, throw it away and buy an electric vehicle. If you really think that this could happen then I have some swampland in Florida to sell you cheap.

I agree. What's more likely to happen is batteries get so good (as fast charging as gas fill ups) that people will want them over ICE and it will happen very quickly so long as the grid holds up.

I would love to go battery power as long as all those conditions are met.

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[twisty]

That's not true.

Many (most?) full size pickups are used as regular cars by a lot of suburbanites and others who want "some" off-road capability as well.

For example, you'd be surprised how often Wranglers and Rams are cross-shopped.

Many people don't buy on need, they buy on image or possibility - otherwise it wouldn't be true that most Wranglers never go further off-road than a gravel driveway.

Not true. Well kind of. You speak of image and that is true. People buy vehicles on the image of what they can do, not necessarily will do with them. That is why all companys spend money on marketing outfits to build that image.

I jeep is a WHOLE different image then what the image of a truck is.

 

[twisty]

I’m cross shopping the 392 with a fully built AEV ZR2. I’ve had a ZR2 in the past, and at that time was cross shopping it with a Rubicon.

Just keeping the conversation interesting because there’s nothing else substantial to talk about. I’m sure the FCA marketing execs are having a good laugh watching this conversation spiral into oblivion as we wait for a MSRP.

Your just trying to figure out which image you want for yourself.

 

[twisty]

And how many people buy keeps that never do any of these things? 90% plus probably.

Low tow rating
Overpriced for what you get
Low reliability
Behind the times on design updates
Low reliability
Low reliability
Low reliability

Low tow rating here in the USA with our standards. Pretty high in Europe--5k. Most dont buy to tow big heavy trailers, they buy for the go anywhere ability and image.

You get a hellofalot of jeep for the money. My bone stock CHEAP TJ was built to my rock crawling standards and exceeded the price of my bone stock rubicon and I was still short -- 100hp more, 4 doors, great AC, trailer tow package, SAT radio, dana 44s, 4 to 1 transfer case, way better MPG, on and on. IT's a great value

Behind the times compared to what? Seems up to date to me, even too much actually

3.6 is legendary, the tranny is VERY well regarded. The electronics not so much, my steering wasnt bad, seems they did get better. A million jeeps on the road.

you must have had some bad luck, too bad I REALLY LOVE my jeep.

 

[twisty]

I had a chance to buy these but bought a wrangler. I guess what I am saying is for the price of a 392 all you’re getting is the same wrangler you can get with the 3.6 but for $30-40 more and basically it’s just an engine.

At least with the TRX and Raptor you are getting more than just an engine.

What more are you getting with a TRX and Raptor?

The value of a vehicle is what the market will bear. Even though it doesnt seem like we are in america now, that part still hasnt changed yet. lol

 

[Goin2drt]

I agree. What's more likely to happen is batteries get so good (as fast charging as gas fill ups) that people will want them over ICE and it will happen very quickly so long as the grid holds up.

I would love to go battery power as long as all those conditions are met.

Totally agree. I think it will get better and better as the DECADES go on. They however as the post said ELIMINATE ice cars on public’s roads will NEVER happen. Just think about how long it will take to get RVs to electric, all the semis etc. Plus you really think that all the million dollars super cars and hyper cars are literally going to become not allowed to drive on public roads, come on people. Ice will NEVER go away. There will always be a gas pump around. Now cost of that gas, who knows.

I do totally agree that if you want high HP, low MPG cars, trucks and Jeep’s you better get them soon. The one thing they can do as we have seen regulate and make it so expensive in fees, taxes etc that the manufacturers don’t feel it worth it to continue to make those.

Last thing as mentioned above and I totally agree until they can take All range anxiety away by having enough charging stations and be able to charge in the same time as filling up electric will never overtake ice as numbers on the road. That alone will take decades because these manufacturers are stupid. They all want their own charging system instead of working on one system. EV would advance much faster if they would have all figured out how to and build on the Tesla system that has taken so many years to build.

 

[Goosed]

What more are you getting with a TRX and Raptor?

The value of a vehicle is what the market will bear. Even though it doesnt seem like we are in america now, that part still hasnt changed yet. lol

Custom tuned suspension dedicated to the truck build

Reinforced frame for off road flex

Redesigned front fenders that allow additional travel for the suspension design

Standard off road needs such as locking rear diff and multi mode terrain goodies.

These trucks are completely redesigned from a standard 1500 or F150. All Jeep did was add a moose lift and stiffen the front frame for the additional engine weight.

 

[SDJEEP4PAPA]

Narrowing down my "Toy" options.. went out and priced these as best I could, Ford hasn't announced pricing on the V8 Raptor but assuming it will run at least $15K more than the 6cyl. While these vehicles are not strictly comparable as others have pointed out they would all meet my goal of being fun to drive, have robust off road capabilities, could handle a lot of snow, and except for the Hummer have a V8 power plant with all that brings to the table... with all tricked outed they come in about here I think...

RAM TRX $91k (this is a bad ass truck I have to admit)
Raptor V8 $71k +15k for the V8 = $86k (at least) (and no open air capability)
Jeep 392, my guess all tricked out with One-Touch Sky, $80k
GM Hummer with 350mi range (the crab walk is very cool) $100k

So the Jeep is definitely going to be a relatively good value in this high end group... Still my #1 pick although that RAM TRX is a close #2, then the Hummer (if I can spend that much.. ouch) Thoughts?

 

[oceanblue2019]

If the 392 was 100% made in USA as in all parts, electronics, etc made in USA, we'd be paying $150K for it. Just the way the world works.

We pay one way or another.....

We either pay the price to manufacture stuff in the USA to keep our people employed, and out of poverty, and paying their own way.

OR

We buy cheap China stuff, and pay higher taxes to keep all the unemployed who lost their jobs as it all went to China off the streets and with basic healthcare, food, etc.

I prefer #1. Twice the price to buy USA? Done deal.

 

[Goin2drt]

Narrowing down my "Toy" options.. went out and priced these as best I could, Ford hasn't announced pricing on the V8 Raptor but assuming it will run at least $15K more than the 6cyl. While these vehicles are not strictly comparable as others have pointed out they would all meet my goal of being fun to drive, have robust off road capabilities, could handle a lot of snow, and except for the Hummer have a V8 power plant with all that brings to the table... with all tricked outed they come in about here I think...

RAM TRX $91k (this is a bad ass truck I have to admit)
Raptor V8 $71k +15k for the V8 = $86k (at least) (and no open air capability)
Jeep 392, my guess all tricked out with One-Touch Sky, $80k
GM Hummer with 350mi range (the crab walk is very cool) $100k

So the Jeep is definitely going to be a relatively good value in this high end group... Still my #1 pick although that RAM TRX is a close #2, then the Hummer (if I can spend that much.. ouch) Thoughts?

I know this is a Jeep forum but honestly if you just want fun factor and have no desire to do hard core wheelin the Jeep is a distant last place. They drive like shit for every day road manners, tech is miles behind Ram, creature comforts not even close, refinement not even close. Can’t even compare them to the others. My money and describing what you want it for;1. TRX, 2 would be Hummer if you can actually get one but since it will be tough then it would be the Raptor. I wouldn’t even consider the 392 in your scenario. I’d buy something else 3, 4, 5....... Maybe the 392 would be 10th on the list.

 

[Goosed]

Narrowing down my "Toy" options.. went out and priced these as best I could, Ford hasn't announced pricing on the V8 Raptor but assuming it will run at least $15K more than the 6cyl. While these vehicles are not strictly comparable as others have pointed out they would all meet my goal of being fun to drive, have robust off road capabilities, could handle a lot of snow, and except for the Hummer have a V8 power plant with all that brings to the table... with all tricked outed they come in about here I think...

RAM TRX $91k (this is a bad ass truck I have to admit)
Raptor V8 $71k +15k for the V8 = $86k (at least) (and no open air capability)
Jeep 392, my guess all tricked out with One-Touch Sky, $80k
GM Hummer with 350mi range (the crab walk is very cool) $100k

So the Jeep is definitely going to be a relatively good value in this high end group... Still my #1 pick although that RAM TRX is a close #2, then the Hummer (if I can spend that much.. ouch) Thoughts?

Was your TRX totally optioned out? I haven’t been on their site to build one yet.

I’ll also be interested in the V8 Raptor pricing, but also Ford seems to be the worst on Dealer Markup especially with the Raptor.

Ram dealers have been pretty good about Dealer Markup on the TRX from what I have heard. We shall see what Jeep dealers do with the 392.

 

[SDJEEP4PAPA]

Was your TRX totally optioned out?

Yes, pretty well tricked out...most of the options..

 

[Rob97RR]

So the Jeep is definitely going to be a relatively good value in this high end group... Still my #1 pick although that RAM TRX is a close #2, then the Hummer (if I can spend that much.. ouch) Thoughts?

Here's my thoughts...

So, looking at your favorites:

As someone else already mentioned, the biggest drawback to the Hummer in my opinion is going to be availability (and possibly cost, depending on how much you're comfortable spending). It's likely going to be quite a wait to get one, and you may find yourself pretty bored in the meantime. And if that happens, you may end up choosing something more readily available anyway. But outside of availability, charging time, and access to charging locations might be a bit of an issue as well, depending on where or how far you're thinking about taking it to go off-roading, or on any kind of road trips. On the plus side, the crab walk feature is pretty cool, the "unique" factor will be very high, at least for a while, and the reported power and acceleration sound absolutely insane for anything that big!

The TRX and the (upcoming) Shelby V8 powered Raptor seem pretty interchangeable to me. Similar platform/design, similar size, and capabilities, and eventually similar power. They are trucks of course, so they will have more ability to tow, and to haul things in their beds, so they could be seen as more "practical", but only if you really need that from your choice. And as some have mentioned, they will likely both have better on-road manners than the Jeep, since they are more aimed towards high speed off-roading. But the Major trade off in my opinion, is the size. (Especially if you don't need that "added" practicality.) While great at the high-speed stuff, they won't be nearly as easy to go in, out, and over, tight, tricky spaces and obstacles off-road. And that will hold true for some on-road situations as well. Tight parking spaces in small parking lots won't be a lot of fun to deal with everyday in something that wide and that long. (Assuming you're going to drive it frequently, of course.)

Which leads to the Jeep. The two biggest advantages in my opinion to the Jeep verses the trucks, is going to be:

A. The increased off-road capability that you will get with a narrower, shorter, and more maneuverable vehicle. Just like the two trucks, the 392 will also be fast, and will also have front & rear lockers, but combined with the smaller size, better maneuverability & great articulation, there is simply going to be more places that the Jeep is designed to go, that the larger TRX and Raptor are not.

And then of course, there's B. The obvious feature that comes with any Wrangler, the open-air ability to shed the top, and doors. (or even the roof with just a push of a button if you select the sky roof option).


For me personally, I enjoy exploring remote, hard to access places off road, just as much as I enjoy the fast, mud-slinging type stuff, and I believe the 392 is the better option to do both well. The ability to remove the top is just icing on the cake for me.

Also, for what it's worth, don't get too caught up in the "crazy price" talk either.

For one, the "30k price increase just for an engine" is not accurate. Even if you ignore the frame upgrades, cooling, and other improvements they did just to accommodate the new V8, when you look at everything else that comes standard with the 392 Rubicon, it's closer to a well-optioned regular 21' Rubicon that would be near 60k all on its own. (As an aside, the argument that you can't get a base Rubicon 392 with the just the new engine is a valid complaint, however the only one that IS currently available is not comparable to a "base" Rubicon with no options, so I'm keeping this an "apples to apples" comparison). Basically, that means that the new motor only adds around 10k in price, assuming it comes in around the 70k that many are suggesting. Which is entirely justifiable in my book, especially when you consider the aftermarket price it costs to convert a standard Ruby to a V8. (Which may not even include the necessary frame, suspension, drivetrain & and cooling improvements, OR a full warranty for that matter.)

And finally, for two: It's the obvious, often stated, but more often ignored reminder, that at the end of the day, it is your money after all, and your decision. People don't get to tell you what YOU should prefer to spend your own money on.

Just look at each of the different vehicles you are considering, decide which key differences matter the most to YOU, then pick whichever choice your heart desires. It's that simple.

Good luck with your "search", and keep us posted on what you ultimately choose!
-Rob

 

[Willy's Commando]

Here is my thoughts on TRX, Hummer, Raptor, 392 comparison.

392 will be able to squeeze through with out a scratch, the other 3 will be turning around and watching. i will be at this exact location in 3 months or less with a brand new 392 squeezing throug.

7

 

[SDJEEP4PAPA]

Thanks guys... appreciate the POVs, helpful..

I just got word from one local dealer that the ADM on a TRX is $25k !!!! That would put it at nearly $120k... are they F... Nuts??? No one is going to pay that kind of premium.. *and they want $45K over MSRP for the launch edition.. what a joke.. Even at MSRP it would have been a stretch for me...

I think I am ruling out the Hummer... Batteries are going to keep getting cheaper and so will the Hummer, just look at what happened to the early Leafs... (great car BTW) but they depreciated like crazy and I think the Hummer will too..

On the other hands they are not going to be making big block V8s for long so if anything will hold its value well, a Jeep with a V8 will (and the other V8s too)

I agree the Raptor and TRX are big and might not even fit in the garage (unless I kick the wife's car out.. hum, probably not a good idea)...too bad there isn't a Ranger size with a big V8... that would be a cool offering... I also think one might hesitate even taking a TRX or Raptor into harms way... just seems like they would be more delicate and harder to repair...

Finally while the Jeep isn't going to be a nice ride like my old SSR or an SUV for that matter, I don't think that is going to bother me...and there is so much you can do to modify one also you can really open it up... I remember driving a friends back on the farm 40 yrs ago, he didn't have doors, windows or roof... it was such a blast...

So I a still leaninmg towards a 392... thou was tempted by the TRX until I got that pricing...wish they would just release the Jeep MSRP... what the hell are they waiting for... maybe for the Raptor V8??

Thanks again for the input.. Cheers

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