Fsttanks
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Tony
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2020
- Threads
- 7
- Messages
- 438
- Reaction score
- 945
- Location
- Palm Springs Ca.
- Vehicle(s)
- 2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
- Thread starter
- #1
This is a STRONG WARNING to all Jeep JL owners!
The following is a short summarization of the event, some details have been left out and will be discussed with Jeep before I add them.
This weekend while taking a short family trip in our five month old 2020 Jeep JLUR we had TWO COMPLETE computer failures both without ANY warning.
The first was at a busy intersection the engine shut down and ALL the instruments and infotainment system went crazy included the SOS which started sending alerts that could not be stopped. I had NO ability to activate the hazards lights to warn other vehicles behind me or any ability to restart the engine. Twice we were almost rear ended so when it was safe enough I had my family exit to safety. My Jeep remained immobile in the intersection for almost 10 mins. At which point the computer system reset and I was able to move the Jeep to a safe location. After the incident there were no engine warning light of any kind and all the system were back to work as normal.
Thinking this was a one off glitch we continued on our trip. Well that was a huge mistake. Not much more then 10 min later while driving at freeway speeds there was another COMPLETE computer failure and total loss of ALL vehicle control. The steering all but froze up, engine was sputtering and loosing power worst the brakes were NOT working! All this on top of the other instruments going crazy. I managed with some effort to muscle the steering wheel enough to get the Jeep over to the extremely small “emergency lane” but then had NO brakes to stop with and our speed at this time was around 50mph. I was literally standing on the brake pedal and it was having almost no effect. I ended up having to use the “E” brake to stop our Jeep!
Once stopped, again NO “hazard lights” could be engaged and NOTHING worked! So now we were half in and half out of the traffic lanes. I carry flares and being this had just happen a few minutes early I was thinking about them so I deployed them to warn traffic and hopefully not get rear ended by a high speed passerby.
15 or so minutes later the computer system once again reset? I was then able to move the Jeep off the freeway. This time the “check engine” light was on. Seeing this I though REALLY NO F’N KIDDING.
Needless to say Jeep had a call from me and I have filed a report with the NTSB. Had either one of these incident occurred just a short time early as we had driven through a high speed (70mph) section of winding mountain roads I would not have been able to steer or brake sufficiently enough to have avoided a major crash. Fortunately I am a trained EVOC driver with decades of high speed and off-road skills to draw from. Had my wife or son or anyone with far less experience “behind the wheel” been driving when the last incident happen there is no way they could have safety made it off to the side of the road. Hell I was shaking and almost S**T my pants. I have had failure of steering and brakes before while on the job in other vehicles, but NEVER all the major systems at the same time let alone while at 70mph.
In more then 35 years of drive both personally and as a professional I have never been scared of driving a vehicle until today. I will never trust my JLUR again until Jeep can 100% in writing guarantee me this will NEVER happen again!!!
I don’t think the majority of JL owner actually realizes just how much of their Jeep is controlled solely by the one computer with no backup and that they have no real control over their vehicles except which the computer grants them. So be aware if your computer fails you are just along for the ride. And it’s a scary one!!!
P.S. Yes I am aware there have been other threads on similar topics. But none state the real danger involved. The Jeep was towed to my local dealerships where it will sit until ?. It is not a battery issue as both show full charges and voltage.
Your thoughts and constructive input are welcome.
HUGE UPDATE come soon and it’s not a good one!!!
EDIT NOTE:
1) This JLUR is a standard 3.6 with automatic transmission.
2) The ESS was turned off via the dash off button in both incidents. Always turn it off when I start the Jeep.
3) The tires are 315/70/17 BFG AT2.
4) NO computer “chip” mods were done.
5) The infotainment system is the Alpine with 8.4 screen.
UPDATE 11/27
Second dealership provided me with a copy of the OBD print out. The service writer said it was by far the longest print out of problems they has seen on a JL or JT. Nearly all the electrically powered/controlled system have failed or show faults!!
UPDATE 11/30
Simplified version:
Dealerships said “infotainment” system and alternator were damaged during the events making it impossible to sort through ALL the failures and faults.
Both will need to be replaced before they can even start tracking down the cause of the issues.
This will be at least a TWO WEEK process because there are no “off the shelf” replacement 8.4 Alpine information system available as these are “coded to the VIN” of each vehicle.
UPDATE 12/03
Spoke with Jeep Cares today and the ordered parts that were supposed to arrive on 12/12 will now not arrive until at least 12/21 !!
Also spoke with the dealership doing the work and they said they moved ahead with replacing the alternator and just for good measure both batteries. Upon doing so they discovered the infotainment system was now working(?) and could do further investigations into the electrical system failures and that I might not need a new infotainment system after all.
UPDATE 12/04
Well surprise the Jeep is “fixed” LOL time will tell though.
Ok here is a summarization of what I have been told the issues were (?) in no specific order because they don’t actually know the sequence of the failures.
1) Nearly all the fuses were tight and initially felt seated, but it was found they were only seated about 60% and needed to be pressed further into proper position. This could have caused some shorting and possibly limited surge protections.
2) The almost $600 “smart” alternator aka “generator/inverter” had the smart part burn up and was working solely as an old fashion alternator without the inverter aspect to “balance out the electrical power frequencies” which in turn upset the electronics.
3) The ESS relays were malfunctioning aka “burned out” and the ESS did not know what to do, hence why the engine would shut down and not want to restart or would not turn off. It did not matter that the ESS off button was engaged in fact it “might” have made the situation worst with it selected to the OFF setting. Just confused the ESS system even more.
4) Batteries were damaged during all this and although mostly showing holding of power and volts both had some cell issues and both were replaced for good measure.
My theory if what the dealership is saying is the cause of all this, is that the problem started with the engine bay fuse box and the fuses not being seated properly. This caused the smart “generator/inverter” to have to work harder controlling/regulating the electrical system power and it finally burned up. The ESS was the primary victim of the fuses and generator failure. The fuses not being seated fully, thus unknown if working correctly, could have been the reason why all the smaller functions went haywire during each event.
Please feel free to add your thought or theory based on what the dealership reported. It will help others that are experiencing these issues.
UPDATE 12/06
Back to the dealership on Monday morning there is still more work to be done. Lost steering power, curse control, park sensors, voltage output drops and a few service “xyz” systems warnings while driving though a hilly twisting turning frwy section on my way home. Surprised NO...P’d off YES!
Can’t wait to see what the OBD print out says this time.
UPDATE 12/08
This is the latest OBD print out of the problems experienced on 12/06. Still ALL electrical related !
UPDATE 12/11
Well its been FIVE days now at the dealership 12/07-11 and on 12/07 they are bringing in a Jeep factory engineer to find the problems? Since then radio silence.........
UPDATE 12/23
Jeep is still at the 2nd dealership going on two+ weeks. I have retained a lawyer to assist me with my issues and on his advice I will not be posting further information related to what is going on with my Jeep until all is settled. I have also removed the video of one of the failures that was posted on my Instagram.
UPDATE 04/2021
Sadly the electrical issues could not be solved by my Dealership or FCA. My Jeep has been bought back and I am now in the market for a new one. Keeping my fingers crossed I find something suitable soon.
The following is a short summarization of the event, some details have been left out and will be discussed with Jeep before I add them.
This weekend while taking a short family trip in our five month old 2020 Jeep JLUR we had TWO COMPLETE computer failures both without ANY warning.
The first was at a busy intersection the engine shut down and ALL the instruments and infotainment system went crazy included the SOS which started sending alerts that could not be stopped. I had NO ability to activate the hazards lights to warn other vehicles behind me or any ability to restart the engine. Twice we were almost rear ended so when it was safe enough I had my family exit to safety. My Jeep remained immobile in the intersection for almost 10 mins. At which point the computer system reset and I was able to move the Jeep to a safe location. After the incident there were no engine warning light of any kind and all the system were back to work as normal.
Thinking this was a one off glitch we continued on our trip. Well that was a huge mistake. Not much more then 10 min later while driving at freeway speeds there was another COMPLETE computer failure and total loss of ALL vehicle control. The steering all but froze up, engine was sputtering and loosing power worst the brakes were NOT working! All this on top of the other instruments going crazy. I managed with some effort to muscle the steering wheel enough to get the Jeep over to the extremely small “emergency lane” but then had NO brakes to stop with and our speed at this time was around 50mph. I was literally standing on the brake pedal and it was having almost no effect. I ended up having to use the “E” brake to stop our Jeep!
Once stopped, again NO “hazard lights” could be engaged and NOTHING worked! So now we were half in and half out of the traffic lanes. I carry flares and being this had just happen a few minutes early I was thinking about them so I deployed them to warn traffic and hopefully not get rear ended by a high speed passerby.
15 or so minutes later the computer system once again reset? I was then able to move the Jeep off the freeway. This time the “check engine” light was on. Seeing this I though REALLY NO F’N KIDDING.
Needless to say Jeep had a call from me and I have filed a report with the NTSB. Had either one of these incident occurred just a short time early as we had driven through a high speed (70mph) section of winding mountain roads I would not have been able to steer or brake sufficiently enough to have avoided a major crash. Fortunately I am a trained EVOC driver with decades of high speed and off-road skills to draw from. Had my wife or son or anyone with far less experience “behind the wheel” been driving when the last incident happen there is no way they could have safety made it off to the side of the road. Hell I was shaking and almost S**T my pants. I have had failure of steering and brakes before while on the job in other vehicles, but NEVER all the major systems at the same time let alone while at 70mph.
In more then 35 years of drive both personally and as a professional I have never been scared of driving a vehicle until today. I will never trust my JLUR again until Jeep can 100% in writing guarantee me this will NEVER happen again!!!
I don’t think the majority of JL owner actually realizes just how much of their Jeep is controlled solely by the one computer with no backup and that they have no real control over their vehicles except which the computer grants them. So be aware if your computer fails you are just along for the ride. And it’s a scary one!!!
P.S. Yes I am aware there have been other threads on similar topics. But none state the real danger involved. The Jeep was towed to my local dealerships where it will sit until ?. It is not a battery issue as both show full charges and voltage.
Your thoughts and constructive input are welcome.
HUGE UPDATE come soon and it’s not a good one!!!
EDIT NOTE:
1) This JLUR is a standard 3.6 with automatic transmission.
2) The ESS was turned off via the dash off button in both incidents. Always turn it off when I start the Jeep.
3) The tires are 315/70/17 BFG AT2.
4) NO computer “chip” mods were done.
5) The infotainment system is the Alpine with 8.4 screen.
UPDATE 11/27
Second dealership provided me with a copy of the OBD print out. The service writer said it was by far the longest print out of problems they has seen on a JL or JT. Nearly all the electrically powered/controlled system have failed or show faults!!
UPDATE 11/30
Simplified version:
Dealerships said “infotainment” system and alternator were damaged during the events making it impossible to sort through ALL the failures and faults.
Both will need to be replaced before they can even start tracking down the cause of the issues.
This will be at least a TWO WEEK process because there are no “off the shelf” replacement 8.4 Alpine information system available as these are “coded to the VIN” of each vehicle.
UPDATE 12/03
Spoke with Jeep Cares today and the ordered parts that were supposed to arrive on 12/12 will now not arrive until at least 12/21 !!
Also spoke with the dealership doing the work and they said they moved ahead with replacing the alternator and just for good measure both batteries. Upon doing so they discovered the infotainment system was now working(?) and could do further investigations into the electrical system failures and that I might not need a new infotainment system after all.
UPDATE 12/04
Well surprise the Jeep is “fixed” LOL time will tell though.
Ok here is a summarization of what I have been told the issues were (?) in no specific order because they don’t actually know the sequence of the failures.
1) Nearly all the fuses were tight and initially felt seated, but it was found they were only seated about 60% and needed to be pressed further into proper position. This could have caused some shorting and possibly limited surge protections.
2) The almost $600 “smart” alternator aka “generator/inverter” had the smart part burn up and was working solely as an old fashion alternator without the inverter aspect to “balance out the electrical power frequencies” which in turn upset the electronics.
3) The ESS relays were malfunctioning aka “burned out” and the ESS did not know what to do, hence why the engine would shut down and not want to restart or would not turn off. It did not matter that the ESS off button was engaged in fact it “might” have made the situation worst with it selected to the OFF setting. Just confused the ESS system even more.
4) Batteries were damaged during all this and although mostly showing holding of power and volts both had some cell issues and both were replaced for good measure.
My theory if what the dealership is saying is the cause of all this, is that the problem started with the engine bay fuse box and the fuses not being seated properly. This caused the smart “generator/inverter” to have to work harder controlling/regulating the electrical system power and it finally burned up. The ESS was the primary victim of the fuses and generator failure. The fuses not being seated fully, thus unknown if working correctly, could have been the reason why all the smaller functions went haywire during each event.
Please feel free to add your thought or theory based on what the dealership reported. It will help others that are experiencing these issues.
UPDATE 12/06
Back to the dealership on Monday morning there is still more work to be done. Lost steering power, curse control, park sensors, voltage output drops and a few service “xyz” systems warnings while driving though a hilly twisting turning frwy section on my way home. Surprised NO...P’d off YES!
Can’t wait to see what the OBD print out says this time.
UPDATE 12/08
This is the latest OBD print out of the problems experienced on 12/06. Still ALL electrical related !
UPDATE 12/11
Well its been FIVE days now at the dealership 12/07-11 and on 12/07 they are bringing in a Jeep factory engineer to find the problems? Since then radio silence.........
UPDATE 12/23
Jeep is still at the 2nd dealership going on two+ weeks. I have retained a lawyer to assist me with my issues and on his advice I will not be posting further information related to what is going on with my Jeep until all is settled. I have also removed the video of one of the failures that was posted on my Instagram.
UPDATE 04/2021
Sadly the electrical issues could not be solved by my Dealership or FCA. My Jeep has been bought back and I am now in the market for a new one. Keeping my fingers crossed I find something suitable soon.
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