My 2020 Jeep Rubicon “JLUR” could have killed me and my family this weekend.

Deleted member 53226

Guest
On a related topic, this is exactly why self driving cars are an absolute disaster waiting to happen. Imagine the software freezing up at 75 mph on the highway while you're snoozing. Good Lord.
Advertisement

 

No IFS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
453
Reaction score
628
Location
Southern California
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL Rubicon 2 Door / 2022 V8 JT Gladiator Mojave
Sell it
 

Petey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Pete
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
448
Reaction score
230
Location
Miami
Vehicle(s)
2020 jl sport manual
In the JL the computer controls the vast majority of electrical power distribution. No computer means the electrical power is not going were and how it should. Hence MALFUNCTIONING / HAYWIRE/ CRAZED failure of the computer=all but NO brakes because without the computer directing electrical power to the appropriate brakes systems the brakes are hugely diminished especially at freeway speeds. So to keep it simple NO computer NO properly working brakes.

Its one thing to try a “dead stick stop” “no power stop” in a relatively safe environment at very low speed with a working vehicle. Its an entirely another thing to do it with at high speed in a dangerous environment and with all your other major control systems malfunction at the same time.

I find it interesting the focus of comments are more worried about the brakes then the steering. Had this last incident happen on a turn at the speed we where traveling, with the greatly inhibited steering, even fully functioning brakes would not have helped avoid a crash.
I think were all in awe about the steering ..I drive buses for a living... 50,000 pound ones, and even those turn while ur in motion ..of course not all that easy without power steering but once u slow down and stop a regular person wouldn't be able turn that steering wheel, it has to roll at least a certain speed , I would say about 5mph at least , even so, quick turns are impossible without power to the steering. I steered my car rolling (acc off) into my parking space and it felt a bit heavier then steering my Honda with no power . Almost no difference though. I don't think that wranglers have collision avoidance steering (forgot what they call it but u get the idea) so I can't even imagine what mechanism might have done what u explained
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
393
Reaction score
808
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
I think were all in awe about the steering ..I drive buses for a living... 50,000 pound ones, and even those turn while ur in motion ..of course not all that easy without power steering but once u slow down and stop a regular person wouldn't be able turn that steering wheel, it has to roll at least a certain speed , I would say about 5mph at least , even so, quick turns are impossible without power to the steering. I steered my car rolling (acc off) into my parking space and it felt a bit heavier then steering my Honda with no power . Almost no difference though. I don't think that wranglers have collision avoidance steering (forgot what they call it but u get the idea) so I can't even imagine what mechanism might have done what u explained
And this is one of the things that has me concerned. I have driven other SUVs and large sedans when failures of the power steering have occurred and not one has ever been this heavy to steer.

Also keep in mind there was no stable power and turning the wheel to far could have engaged the “parked” wheel lock with no way to unlock it. This was a thought that flash across my mind. Simply nothing was working as one would expect.

One major system failing is manageable. Having three fail at the same time is catastrophic and the majority drivers these days that have not grown up without computers controlling everything would be in for a really bad day.
 

GtX

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Messages
1,132
Reaction score
1,575
Location
Illinois
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLUR 3.0D
Occupation
Working for the man.
Vehicle Showcase
1
Also keep in mind there was no stable power and turning the wheel to far could have engaged the “parked” wheel lock with no way to unlock it.
Is this even a think on the JL?
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
393
Reaction score
808
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
Is this even a think on the JL?
It was on my JK and has been on all my past Jeep’s, cars and trucks I have ever owned or operated so in my thinking at the MOMENT everything was happening it was a real possibility that the steering wheel could lock.
 
Last edited:

Petey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Pete
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
448
Reaction score
230
Location
Miami
Vehicle(s)
2020 jl sport manual
Is this even a think on the JL?
Just tried it so it seems that it doesn't lock after all (just my observation) apart from the fact the fob was to far the car to detect it when I did the test it still doesn't absolutely disprove that it cant lock. It would take disconnecting the batteries to be absolutely sure . The older key cars can lock up if u pull the key or something goes wrong with the system in steering column.. This also make me nervous because anyone can sit in ur car and just push and steer it away onto a truck bed without making much noise.
 

Whiskey 13

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
271
Reaction score
347
Location
North West Florida
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep JLU Black Rubicon, LOD Signature Mid Width Bumper, Smittybilt Gen 3 12000 Lb. Winch Syn. Rope, Teraflex 1.5" Leveling Kit, Weather Tech Form Fit Mats, ROAM MK 3 Frame Mounted Rock Rails
The old steering locks were mechanical you do not have them with key fobs
 

oldcjguy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
306
Reaction score
349
Location
Central FL
Vehicle(s)
16 Challenger Hellcat, 19 Challenger Scatpack, 20 JLUR Recon
Occupation
Software Engineer
Just an FYI for the op and others.
ALL modern vehicles are computer controlled. No way to pass emissions and safety regulations without them. Vehicles systems like steering and brakes are not completely disconnected from the driver. Their assist systems are computer controlled, but there is still a mechanical link to the steering wheel and brake pedal. It's not like the throttle where the gas pedal is just a sensor with wires coming out. At least not yet :)
There is no one computer that controls the whole vehicle. The vehicle is a rolling network with well over 10 computers all communicating. Your engine, transmission, brakes, steering, power windows, etc... are all controlled by separate computers.

What happened here sounds like a power issue/failure. Some kind of a short. Possibly a short on the network (CAN bus) wires. Make sure they check the battery and major cable connections. I'm sure they will, but make sure you ask them anyway.

I've seen systems go crazy like that from a very low, almost dead, battery. Windshield wipers just started going by them selves and wouldn't stop, vehicle wouldn't start, dash flashing crazy. We had to disconnect the battery to get it to stop. Computers don't like to work correctly without the correct amount of power.
 

df007

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
363
Reaction score
270
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLU Sahara 2.0
One would think the NHTSA would require some sort of stopping distance and steering effort spec when a vehicle is "off". Might be something that is not regulated, but seems pretty obvious from a safety standpoint.

Maybe someone here knows something about this?

Seems like the JL just has too much reliance on the assist levels based on a few stories I
've read here. Sure there is still a mechanical link, but seems too weak.
 

Shots

Well-Known Member
First Name
Winchell
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
2,480
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
Gone but not forgotten '18 Wrangler Sahara
....The steering was far heavier then vintage 1960 non power truck steering. One would think it would be at least better then that. Nope not without electrical power.
That's to be expected. The old cars that didn't have power steering, had some mechanical advantages built in. For example a larger diameter steering wheel gives you more torque to turn the wheels. Likewise a larger gear (or pinion) diameter will require less force to move the rack. With new cars being dependent upon the power assist they don't build those advantages in anymore.
Anyway, it's not just a "Jeep thing." On modern cars, you've got to man handle them if you lose power. As you obviously learned.
 

Shots

Well-Known Member
First Name
Winchell
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
2,480
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
Gone but not forgotten '18 Wrangler Sahara
........ there is still a mechanical link to the steering wheel and brake pedal. It's not like the throttle where the gas pedal is just a sensor with wires coming out. At least not yet :)
......
One would think the NHTSA would require some sort of stopping distance and steering effort spec when a vehicle is "off". .....
The reason the steering and braking are still physically linked to the driver is because NHTSA said it has to be. They do that for cases just like this. It may suck to maneuver without power, but it can be done. If it were completely electronic you'd be free rolling with no way to do anything about it but brace for impact. A failsafe may not be ideal, but it's better than nothing.
 
Advertisement

Gibson Leatherworks
 
Advertisement
Top