My 2020 Jeep Rubicon “JLUR” could have killed me and my family this weekend.

byhumba

Well-Known Member
First Name
Byron
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
155
Reaction score
298
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2003 Jeep Wrangler
Electronics (AI) are taking over many tasks, including driving tasks, creating an environment in which we have to trust them. We are not at the level of trusting them yet and I don't know if we ever will reach that. I know I will never trust the hill descent (or hill asssist) feature on any offroad vehicle. That's the worst time to trust electronics. This is not unique to Jeeps either. Watch this video by TFL and their TRX at about 4:30 minute.

 

702Rubi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
47
Reaction score
25
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Vehicle(s)
2018 4Runner
...If you think Jeep, FCA, Stellantis corporate office guys are reading these forums, you're kidding yourselves.
FWIW, JeepCares has posted several times on this thread.

Regarding the OP, I see ppl here saying this happens in all sorts of vehicles. Maybe I'm sheltered, but I've never heard of anything like this happening on any vehicle. And apparently more than a few JL owners have had similar experiences ?!

I had lots of weird problems with an Xterra (ultimately bought back under the Calif. Lemon Law), but it never put my safety or life in this kind of danger.

The OP's scenario was scary enough (family in the car, vehicle simply dies in an intersection then again later on the freeway). I'm imagining this happening while crawling up or down a long, steep, switchbacking mountain trail. 😳 Serious injury or death would be inevitable.

I've been thinking of trading in my 4Runner for a new Rubi (I had a JK before). But this thread and other stuff I've read today are giving me cold feet. My old JK had a few problems, but nothing like this.

BTW, while improperly seated fuses may not seem like a big deal, the fact it has been going on for YEARS is another huge red flag to me.
 

The Last Cowboy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 2, 2020
Messages
1,818
Reaction score
3,229
Location
San Antonio, TX
Vehicle(s)
2020 JL Willys 2 door
Occupation
Wandering Vaquero
JeepCares is social media outreach that has little to no contact with corporate. Their posters know little to nothing about the product. They will help with getting an appointment for warranty issues.
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
385
Reaction score
784
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
FWIW, JeepCares has posted several times on this thread.

Regarding the OP, I see ppl here saying this happens in all sorts of vehicles. Maybe I'm sheltered, but I've never heard of anything like this happening on any vehicle. And apparently more than a few JL owners have had similar experiences ?!

I had lots of weird problems with an Xterra (ultimately bought back under the Calif. Lemon Law), but it never put my safety or life in this kind of danger.

The OP's scenario was scary enough (family in the car, vehicle simply dies in an intersection then again later on the freeway). I'm imagining this happening while crawling up or down a long, steep, switchbacking mountain trail. 😳 Serious injury or death would be inevitable.

I've been thinking of trading in my 4Runner for a new Rubi (I had a JK before). But this thread and other stuff I've read today are giving me cold feet. My old JK had a few problems, but nothing like this.

BTW, while improperly seated fuses may not seem like a big deal, the fact it has been going on for YEARS is another huge red flag to me.
I had a built 13 JKU prior to my 2020 JLUR and wish I had never traded it in on the 2020. That JKU was totally reliable and served me well for over 125K miles and countless adventures.

I do like the JLs and since I can’t get my 13 JKU back or get my hands on a Bronco for at least 18-24 months, I went ahead a ordered a rather striped (minimum of electronics) 2021 JLUR which is expected to arrive sometime next week. I did this knowing the possible issues that could happen and taking a chance that “lightning does not strike twice” especially with less complicated(LoL) electronics. I know that before the new JLUR ever leaves the lot to check all the fuses for a proper seat. This should add a level of reassurance 🤞 that the issues I and others have/had are minimized.

Don’t let any of this stop you from buying a NEW JL. Just take the precautions with the fuses and you should good🤞and don’t believe the BS the dealer says about never hearing of said issues. They don’t want to scare off a customer. Heck even the dealership I order my 2021 from said they never heard of such issues....even though it was their service department that handled the problems and assisted with the FCA buy back of my 2020. LOL
 

DanW

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
7,699
Reaction score
9,831
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
18 JLUR, 08 JKUR, 15 Ford Transit 350, 04 WJ 4.7, 17 Renegade, 99 Merc E430 S
Vehicle Showcase
2
JeepCares is social media outreach that has little to no contact with corporate. Their posters know little to nothing about the product. They will help with getting an appointment for warranty issues.
You are partly right and partlyi wrong. @JeepCares are social media monitors and outreach, so that is true. They also don't know much about the product, so that's true, too. But that's not their job. They aren't engineers. However, they have occasionally gotten answers from engineers, such as in clearing up confusion caused by NHTSA over the PCM reprogramming for the last manual transmissio recall.

They've also done much more than make appointments for me. They've put different levels of technical support in contact with me, such as with Uconnect. They've also tracked parts delivery process and expedited parts delivery (Uconnect head unit). They've helped my dealership get in touch with the right people, too. If you are expecting access to corporate management, well, you won't get that with Honda, GM, BMW, or whatever company you think is great, either.

I'm sure they've not batted 1.000 for everyone, but they've been a great help to me several times, so you won't hear me bad-mouthing them.
 

DanW

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
7,699
Reaction score
9,831
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
18 JLUR, 08 JKUR, 15 Ford Transit 350, 04 WJ 4.7, 17 Renegade, 99 Merc E430 S
Vehicle Showcase
2
FWIW, JeepCares has posted several times on this thread.

Regarding the OP, I see ppl here saying this happens in all sorts of vehicles. Maybe I'm sheltered, but I've never heard of anything like this happening on any vehicle. And apparently more than a few JL owners have had similar experiences ?!

I had lots of weird problems with an Xterra (ultimately bought back under the Calif. Lemon Law), but it never put my safety or life in this kind of danger.

The OP's scenario was scary enough (family in the car, vehicle simply dies in an intersection then again later on the freeway). I'm imagining this happening while crawling up or down a long, steep, switchbacking mountain trail. 😳 Serious injury or death would be inevitable.

I've been thinking of trading in my 4Runner for a new Rubi (I had a JK before). But this thread and other stuff I've read today are giving me cold feet. My old JK had a few problems, but nothing like this.

BTW, while improperly seated fuses may not seem like a big deal, the fact it has been going on for YEARS is another huge red flag to me.
I had a 4Runner that had a transmission computer fart in the middle of a busy intersection leaving my wife stranded, amidst honking, cussing, and VERY hostile motorists from all directions. So now you've heard of it.
 

Rrr8400

Active Member
First Name
Kevin
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Messages
43
Reaction score
23
Location
Maryland
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon
You are partly right and partlyi wrong. @JeepCares are social media monitors and outreach, so that is true. They also don't know much about the product, so that's true, too. But that's not their job. They aren't engineers. However, they have occasionally gotten answers from engineers, such as in clearing up confusion caused by NHTSA over the PCM reprogramming for the last manual transmissio recall.

They've also done much more than make appointments for me. They've put different levels of technical support in contact with me, such as with Uconnect. They've also tracked parts delivery process and expedited parts delivery (Uconnect head unit). They've helped my dealership get in touch with the right people, too. If you are expecting access to corporate management, well, you won't get that with Honda, GM, BMW, or whatever company you think is great, either.

I'm sure they've not batted 1.000 for everyone, but they've been a great help to me several times, so you won't hear me bad-mouthing them.
JeepCares is probably like a lot of things — depends who you end up getting there. My case manager is very nice and friendly but for example the last time she made me an appt she made it at the wrong dealer over an hour away despite me having never gone there before and her having spoken to the correct dealer service Dept the previous time I had brought the jeep in. She also takes days to return calls or messages. I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth it to even have them involved as I wonder if it annoys the service Dept to have to deal with them.
 

702Rubi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
47
Reaction score
25
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Vehicle(s)
2018 4Runner
I had a 4Runner that had a transmission computer fart in the middle of a busy intersection leaving my wife stranded, amidst honking, cussing, and VERY hostile motorists from all directions. So now you've heard of it.
What year and trim level, and how many miles on it? And did the vehicle completely shut down with random lights flashing, as happened to the OP?
 

SSWIM

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
338
Reaction score
689
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
Too Many
FWIW, JeepCares has posted several times on this thread.

Regarding the OP, I see ppl here saying this happens in all sorts of vehicles. Maybe I'm sheltered, but I've never heard of anything like this happening on any vehicle. And apparently more than a few JL owners have had similar experiences ?!

I had lots of weird problems with an Xterra (ultimately bought back under the Calif. Lemon Law), but it never put my safety or life in this kind of danger.

The OP's scenario was scary enough (family in the car, vehicle simply dies in an intersection then again later on the freeway). I'm imagining this happening while crawling up or down a long, steep, switchbacking mountain trail. 😳 Serious injury or death would be inevitable.

I've been thinking of trading in my 4Runner for a new Rubi (I had a JK before). But this thread and other stuff I've read today are giving me cold feet. My old JK had a few problems, but nothing like this.

BTW, while improperly seated fuses may not seem like a big deal, the fact it has been going on for YEARS is another huge red flag to me.

The OPs scenario is NOT, and I repeat NOT as isolated as one might think. Having been in the auto repair business for over 40 years, (own 3 facilities, 18 techs), we have seen multiple stalling scenarios such as his over the years. Things break, fail and malfunction. While it is frustrating to say the least, there is not one single manufacturer that is immune to these issues.


Sam
 

DanW

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
7,699
Reaction score
9,831
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
18 JLUR, 08 JKUR, 15 Ford Transit 350, 04 WJ 4.7, 17 Renegade, 99 Merc E430 S
Vehicle Showcase
2
d
JeepCares is probably like a lot of things — depends who you end up getting there. My case manager is very nice and friendly but for example the last time she made me an appt she made it at the wrong dealer over an hour away despite me having never gone there before and her having spoken to the correct dealer service Dept the previous time I had brought the jeep in. She also takes days to return calls or messages. I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth it to even have them involved as I wonder if it annoys the service Dept to have to deal with them.
Buy your service advisors some donuts or pizza and they'll never think a bad thought about you.

Mine tried and tried to get Jeep to cover the Uconnect for a delaminating screen. They barked it up the chain to a regional rep who still rejected warranty coverage. @JeepCares jumped in and got it done, even helping to expedite the delivery of the new head unit. My service advisor and service manager both said they appreciated the help. We've become friends over the years, so I think they were sincere.
 

JeeperKeeper

Active Member
First Name
Ralph
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
50
Location
USA.
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Willy’s Unlimited
This is a STRONG WARNING to all Jeep JL owners!
3C3EE3B8-D2DA-486D-A813-4B3E154E5553.jpeg


The following is a short summarization of the event, some details have been left out and will be discussed with Jeep before I add them.

This weekend while taking a short family trip in our five month old 2020 Jeep JLUR we had TWO COMPLETE computer failures both without ANY warning.

The first was at a busy intersection the engine shut down and ALL the instruments and infotainment system went crazy included the SOS which started sending alerts that could not be stopped. I had NO ability to activate the hazards lights to warn other vehicles behind me or any ability to restart the engine. Twice we were almost rear ended so when it was safe enough I had my family exit to safety. My Jeep remained immobile in the intersection for almost 10 mins. At which point the computer system reset and I was able to move the Jeep to a safe location. After the incident there were no engine warning light of any kind and all the system were back to work as normal.

Thinking this was a one off glitch we continued on our trip. Well that was a huge mistake. Not much more then 10 min later while driving at freeway speeds there was another COMPLETE computer failure and total loss of ALL vehicle control. The steering all but froze up, engine was sputtering and loosing power worst the brakes were NOT working! All this on top of the other instruments going crazy. I managed with some effort to muscle the steering wheel enough to get the Jeep over to the extremely small “emergency lane” but then had NO brakes to stop with and our speed at this time was around 50mph. I was literally standing on the brake pedal and it was having almost no effect. I ended up having to use the “E” brake to stop our Jeep!

Once stopped, again NO “hazard lights” could be engaged and NOTHING worked! So now we were half in and half out of the traffic lanes. I carry flares and being this had just happen a few minutes early I was thinking about them so I deployed them to warn traffic and hopefully not get rear ended by a high speed passerby.

15 or so minutes later the computer system once again reset? I was then able to move the Jeep off the freeway. This time the “check engine” light was on. Seeing this I though REALLY NO F’N KIDDING.

Needless to say Jeep had a call from me and I have filed a report with the NTSB. Had either one of these incident occurred just a short time early as we had driven through a high speed (70mph) section of winding mountain roads I would not have been able to steer or brake sufficiently enough to have avoided a major crash. Fortunately I am a trained EVOC driver with decades of high speed and off-road skills to draw from. Had my wife or son or anyone with far less experience “behind the wheel” been driving when the last incident happen there is no way they could have safety made it off to the side of the road. Hell I was shaking and almost S**T my pants. I have had failure of steering and brakes before while on the job in other vehicles, but NEVER all the major systems at the same time let alone while at 70mph.

In more then 35 years of drive both personally and as a professional I have never been scared of driving a vehicle until today. I will never trust my JLUR again until Jeep can 100% in writing guarantee me this will NEVER happen again!!!

I don’t think the majority of JL owner actually realizes just how much of their Jeep is controlled solely by the one computer with no backup and that they have no real control over their vehicles except which the computer grants them. So be aware if your computer fails you are just along for the ride. And it’s a scary one!!!

P.S. Yes I am aware there have been other threads on similar topics. But none state the real danger involved. The Jeep was towed to my local dealerships where it will sit until ?. It is not a battery issue as both show full charges and voltage.

Your thoughts and constructive input are welcome.

HUGE UPDATE come soon and it’s not a good one!!!

EDIT NOTE:
1) This JLUR is a standard 3.6 with automatic transmission.
2) The ESS was turned off via the dash off button in both incidents. Always turn it off when I start the Jeep.
3) The tires are 315/70/17 BFG AT2.
4) NO computer “chip” mods were done.
5) The infotainment system is the Alpine with 8.4 screen.

UPDATE 11/27

Second dealership provided me with a copy of the OBD print out. The service writer said it was by far the longest print out of problems they has seen on a JL or JT. Nearly all the electrically powered/controlled system have failed or show faults!!
D845DA3D-610F-4B2D-9288-F7057B897D24.jpeg
381AA631-53AD-4521-A86B-C21BE595319E.jpeg


UPDATE 11/30
Simplified version:
Dealerships said “infotainment” system and alternator were damaged during the events making it impossible to sort through ALL the failures and faults.
Both will need to be replaced before they can even start tracking down the cause of the issues.

This will be at least a TWO WEEK process because there are no “off the shelf” replacement 8.4 Alpine information system available as these are “coded to the VIN” of each vehicle.

UPDATE 12/03

Spoke with Jeep Cares today and the ordered parts that were supposed to arrive on 12/12 will now not arrive until at least 12/21 !!

Also spoke with the dealership doing the work and they said they moved ahead with replacing the alternator and just for good measure both batteries. Upon doing so they discovered the infotainment system was now working(?) and could do further investigations into the electrical system failures and that I might not need a new infotainment system after all.

UPDATE 12/04

Well surprise the Jeep is “fixed” 😆 LOL time will tell though.

Ok here is a summarization of what I have been told the issues were (?) in no specific order because they don’t actually know the sequence of the failures.

1) Nearly all the fuses were tight and initially felt seated, but it was found they were only seated about 60% and needed to be pressed further into proper position. This could have caused some shorting and possibly limited surge protections.

2) The almost $600 “smart” alternator aka “generator/inverter” had the smart part burn up and was working solely as an old fashion alternator without the inverter aspect to “balance out the electrical power frequencies” which in turn upset the electronics.

3) The ESS relays were malfunctioning aka “burned out” and the ESS did not know what to do, hence why the engine would shut down and not want to restart or would not turn off. It did not matter that the ESS off button was engaged in fact it “might” have made the situation worst with it selected to the OFF setting. Just confused the ESS system even more.

4) Batteries were damaged during all this and although mostly showing holding of power and volts both had some cell issues and both were replaced for good measure.

My theory if what the dealership is saying is the cause of all this, is that the problem started with the engine bay fuse box and the fuses not being seated properly. This caused the smart “generator/inverter” to have to work harder controlling/regulating the electrical system power and it finally burned up. The ESS was the primary victim of the fuses and generator failure. The fuses not being seated fully, thus unknown if working correctly, could have been the reason why all the smaller functions went haywire during each event.

Please feel free to add your thought or theory based on what the dealership reported. It will help others that are experiencing these issues.

UPDATE 12/06

Back to the dealership on Monday morning there is still more work to be done. Lost steering power, curse control, park sensors, voltage output drops and a few service “xyz” systems warnings while driving though a hilly twisting turning frwy section on my way home. Surprised NO...P’d off YES!

Can’t wait to see what the OBD print out says this time.

UPDATE 12/08

This is the latest OBD print out of the problems experienced on 12/06. Still ALL electrical related !
7A5D4B78-B481-4E05-B8A6-5BDD9386F0A9.jpeg


UPDATE 12/11

Well its been FIVE days now at the dealership 12/07-11 and on 12/07 they are bringing in a Jeep factory engineer to find the problems? Since then radio silence.........

UPDATE 12/23
Jeep is still at the 2nd dealership going on two+ weeks. I have retained a lawyer to assist me with my issues and on his advice I will not be posting further information related to what is going on with my Jeep until all is settled. I have also removed the video of one of the failures that was posted on my Instagram.

UPDATE 04/2021
Sadly the electrical issues could not be solved by my Dealership or FCA. My Jeep has been bought back and I am now in the market for a new one. Keeping my fingers crossed I find something suitable soon.
Curious why you buy another after it almost killed your family these quality issues are not going away.
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
385
Reaction score
784
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
Bec
Curious why you buy another after it almost killed your family these quality issues are not going away.
Simply because no other vehicle currently available can meet our needs. Trust me had the Bronco was available with a solid year of sales under it’s belt we would have given it a very serious look.

I have owned several Jeeps and other FCA products. The 2020 JLUR was the first one to ever have issues. So taking a chance on a 2021 JLUR is not so much of a risk, at least no more then a first year Bronco would be.

I am also pretty convinced that the issues were originally caused by the improperly seated main engine box fuses that cause numerous shorts throughout the wiring system. This time I check the fuses after the PDI was done and the Jeep was pulled out front. Only four small fuses were not seated properly. The tech that did the PDI saw me doing this and apologized for missing those when he check the fuses. Yes, he said a “bunch” were not fully seated but that they now at his dealership check the fuses on during all PDIs to ensure proper install. I acquired my new 2021 JLUR from the dealership that handled the majority of the problems and that were extremely helpful during the buy back process, so they are aware of the possibilities.

Not many dealerships check the fuses for proper seat as it is not part of the official PDI process.

Sorry for the long winded response.
 

Mtpockets

Well-Known Member
First Name
MT
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
263
Reaction score
199
Location
Massachusetts
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon 4-Door
Following
 
Advertisement

Rock Krawler
 
Advertisement
Top