Modern Diesel Longevity

[MeekoDiesel]

There has been a lot of talk the last few years about modern diesels not being reliable due to all the emissions equipment to keep the EPA / environment happy. Trying to see what sort of miles people can get out of modern diesels I did a quick search on Autotrader yesterday. In the search I was interested in 2007 and newer diesels (since that is when all the EGR / DPF / SCR equipment started to be added). I searched Ford F250/350, Chevy & GMC 2500/3500, and Dodge/Ram 2500/3500s from 2007 to 2020 nationwide. This is what I found....

200k+ miles : > 100 trucks
300k+ miles : 38 trucks
400k+ miles : 13 trucks
600k+ miles : 2 trucks

One interesting thing is that the majority of the trucks were 2014 and newer, so a LOT of miles being racked up very quickly. While I have no way to tell from the postings what work has been done to each of the trucks I wouldn't expect customers, especially those using for commercial purposes, to rack up several hundred thousand miles if the trucks were constant trouble.

Yes the maintenance in the long run is gonna be more expensive (fuel, DEF, oil changes etc.) but diesel engines are engineered to a much higher / beefier standard than their gas equivalent. Seems like diesel is still the way to go if you want to rack up big miles, especially if you stay on top of the maintenance.

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[DanW]

Engineered to a higher, beefier standard? Not so sure these days, especially with the ultra light duty diesels in half ton trucks and SUV's. Time will tell. I do know that FCA put a great deal of effort into improving the 3.0, so hopefully the payoff will be the longevity of diesels of old or better.

My brother's company has had several Chevy 2500 pickups with Duramax diesels and they have all done very well, for at least a couple hundred thousand miles. But they were mainly highway miles. I think the highest mileage truck they own has about 250k with no major issues.

I'd like to see how they do in a short trip commuter environment where it doesn't always get warmed up to full operating temp. That'd be the real test.

The Pentastar has done well for a gas engine. It's block and main bearings are conssidered to be beefy compared to what is typical for gas engines, including heavy duty V8's. In fact it was engineered to handle forced induction and direct injection. So its port fuel injected NA setup really doesn't push its limits.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/34672...s-chrysler-pentastar-v6-is-after-626000-miles

 

[Oilburner]

... In fact it (the 3.6l) was engineered to handle forced induction and direct injection.

I have seen people say this several times - has the 3.6l ever been produced with a turbo or supercharger from the factory?
I see a few installs over in the ‘forced induction’ section but not really seeing people flock to them, it’s an Expensive upgrade after all.

 

[DanW]

I have seen people say this several times - has the 3.6l ever been produced with a turbo or supercharger from the factory?
I see a few installs over in the ‘forced induction’ section but not really seeing people flock to them, it’s an Expensive upgrade after all.

Nope. They've had plans for it, but they never came to be. Not sure if they still might do it. My understanding is that they were very close at one point on going with DI until they saw Kia, GM, and others having premature timing chain wear. They did overcome those issues later, mainly with better oil standards, but FCA determined they didn't need to do it and the upsides of staying with port fuel injection outweighed the down side.

 

[Oilburner]

See, I don't get that - why would you put the engineering R&D + materials into an engine then not apply forced induction? Not even a prototype that I have heard of.
And now with pressure from the upcoming Bronco (with turbo) and Jeep seems to be thinking "Just put a Hemi in it" Why not just add a turbo to the engine that is (supposedly) already designed for it.

Anyway, I had a Gen II 3.0L went almost 125K trouble-free miles. The mileage took a good hit with the AEM deal, but I basically got all my money back from the original diesel upcharge. Did I trust it, obviously not, since I got rid of it when it approached the end of my warranty.
I have a diesel Wrangler now, Very happy with it's performance but I feel the same way about it as I did the GC 3.0 I had = just too much chit to go wrong down the road. Maybe they are awesome & will last 500K miles, maybe just after warranty ends they fall apart (like so many other products do these days). I will very likely move over to a Gladiator anyway if Jeep can get their head out of their arse & make some nice earthy colors. By then they will hopefully have made the call on the next gas engine & there will be Gen III 3.0's with some miles on them. Again the performance of the Ecodiesel is phenomenal = perfect for what I need. I just wish the system was less complicated.
PS: the electric stuff is even more complicated, although it doesn't involve soot lol

 

[DanW]

See, I don't get that - why would you put the engineering R&D + materials into an engine then not apply forced induction? Not even a prototype that I have heard of.
And now with pressure from the upcoming Bronco (with turbo) and Jeep seems to be thinking "Just put a Hemi in it" Why not just add a turbo to the engine that is (supposedly) already designed for it.

Anyway, I had a Gen II 3.0L went almost 125K trouble-free miles. The mileage took a good hit with the AEM deal, but I basically got all my money back from the original diesel upcharge. Did I trust it, obviously not, since I got rid of it when it approached the end of my warranty.
I have a diesel Wrangler now, Very happy with it's performance but I feel the same way about it as I did the GC 3.0 I had = just too much chit to go wrong down the road. Maybe they are awesome & will last 500K miles, maybe just after warranty ends they fall apart (like so many other products do these days). I will very likely move over to a Gladiator anyway if Jeep can get their head out of their arse & make some nice earthy colors. By then they will hopefully have made the call on the next gas engine & there will be Gen III 3.0's with some miles on them. Again the performance of the Ecodiesel is phenomenal = perfect for what I need. I just wish the system was less complicated.
PS: the electric stuff is even more complicated, although it doesn't involve soot lol

Well, the Hemi is already on the shelf. They probably didn't go through the full range of R&D for the Pentastar, but rather just designed strengthened parts. That's what my friend who was on the original design team told me. He never mentioned any significant R&D, so I'll ask him about it and see what he says. I'll ask him if they ever actually had any supercharged or turbocharged test mules, or even DI.

 

[Ruby Clatterbox]

And now with pressure from the upcoming Bronco (with turbo) and Jeep seems to be thinking "Just put a Hemi in it"

I've said since they started putting Hemi's in GC's. Their answer to the more power question. Pretty soon, we'll see a Fiat 500 with a Hemi.

 

[DaltonGang]

My 2¢ worth.
With my job, I run into a lot of Wrecker Drivers. I would say, 4 out of 5 drive Diesels. They rack up a ton of miles, and use them hard. Usually these things are run 16-24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. Some companies leave their trucks stock, until the warranty runs out. Those that do this tell me that they regularly have to take them in, for warranty work, usually related to emissions issues, that cripple the truck, until it is fixed.
Some of the more established wrecker companies, that cannot afford downtime, due to warranty work will have the emissions stuff yanked off, shortly after buying, and reprogram the engine, to work with the loss of all the missing stuff. These companies say they have a greatly improved mpg, a huge increase in power, as well as very very few mechanical issues.
These modified diesels are running over 400,000 miles, and still running strong.
Many companies that dont modify will either trade in the trucks every couple of years, and have a higher percentage of gasoline engine wreckers in their fleet. It seems the gas engine wreckers are more reliable, in the long run, than the unmodified diesels.
BTW, the modified diesels can be easily recognized, due to the more noticeable diesel sound, from the engine, not the exhaust. Just a little more diesel clatter.

 

[Oilburner]

That was nice 5 years ago, try locating a ‘delete kit’ now-

 

[DanW]

I visited Stoops Freightliner near Indianapolis last year. They have a HUGE facility where they sell and service their trucks. They sell Detroit Diesel engines in their new trucks. The head of the mechanic's training school told me they have become very reliable and durable with the emissions systems. He's also one of the people who has told me light duty diesels don't do well with short trips, but do fine when they are run longer and given the chance to be at full operating temperature for longer periods (30 min or more, generally).

A good friend drives semis for a feed company. They still don't trust the new engines so they buy rigs without engines and send them to a company that remanufactures the older ones and installs them. Not sure how long they'll be able to do that, but you can get it done. My understanding is that they are still doing it.

Meanwhile Stoops told me they warrant the Detroits for 250,000 miles. I wonder how that compares with the older engine warranties when they were new?

On a side note, Stoops now sells more automatic transmissions than manuals in their big trucks. I found that interesting, too!

I drive 35 minutes each way to work every day (more like 45 on the way home with traffic). I'd bet an Ecodiesel would do well with that pattern.

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