Moab’s best trails threatened…

[Traveller128]

No such permit required in Utah

There is a permit required for OHV's. ATV, UTV, off highway motorcycle and snowmobiles. Easy to order ahead of time on the state website, $30, lasts all year.

My enduro bike is registered in Idaho, but with a restricted plate meaning I can't run interstates or Federal highways. If it was a regular plate, I wouldn't have needed the permit in Utah last year. Since it was plated and stickered, I could have gotten away with it, but $30 towards trail maintenance was a pittance for all the fun I got out of the trip.

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[GearWhore]

The problem is that with groups like SUWA on board, one closure is never enough. They’ll be back for more soon enough.

Fortunately, there are groups on all sides, and especially members within each of those groups that are forward thinking, realistic, and looking to leave something better than they found it. I'll take one closure now to keep 20 open. Especially if non-mechanized access is still available.

Maybe you can agree that Utah is being loved to death, by you and me included. Our population is booming, and that also means our shared spaces are getting a lot more use. I see vehicles (and trash) now in places that I'd rarely see signs of even 5-6 years ago. Especially as UTVs, vanlife, cell service, GPS, social media, etc. has made it easier for more people to find and get there.

Most people are respectful and great about all of it. But as with everything, this follows the 10% are ass holes, 10% are fantastic, and 80% are just the average rule. That 10% is now a lot more people. And I have heard many of them indifferent to the greater community.

 

[El Jefe]

Email sent:

I've been visiting the Moab UT area for nearly 30 years, and have enjoyed responsible backcountry access in my Jeep the entire time.

The Labyrinth Rims Gemini Bridges Travel Management proposals include some good options, but also include some ludicrous options.

May I ask you: What problem are you trying to solve by restricting access to our well-established trails in the Grand County backcountry?


Closing off access by any amount violates both the BLM's Mission and Priorities:

"The Bureau of Land Management's mission is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations."

Priority 3: Recreation for All: We will work to ensure that all families now and into the future have equal opportunity to hunt, camp, fish, hike and play on our public lands.

The only acceptable option for government action - a government OF the people, BY the people & FOR the people, is to do nothing (Option A).

 

[J0E]

Got an email from RR4W (the jeep safari organizers) today. I’m assuming many of you did also.

It is crucial that you comment opposing alternatives B and C and supporting alternatives D or A, and ask the BLM to keep all of the routes mentioned below open instead of closing them. Please review the entire press release above for additional information.


Written comments may be mailed, emailed, or submitted through ePlanning. Please reference “Labyrinth Rims Gemini Bridges Travel Management” when submitting comments via ePlanning and mail.



Mail: BLM Moab Field Office, Attn: Labyrinth Rims/Gemini Bridges Travel Management,

82 East Dogwood Moab, UT 84532

ePlanning: https://go.usa.gov/xs57Y

[email protected]

[email protected]

Ever heard of TLDR?

If you want to get thousands of folks emailing our position to the right place, you need to provide one contact and easy/quick to read instructions. I get lazy people to advocate for a position I'm passionate about by making my request short and provide a template for them to copy/paste or edit. For example,

email to ????
I support option A, but if that fails, my 2nd choice is option D.

You might want to warn folks
Comments containing only opinions or preferences will not receive a formal response but may be considered in the BLM decision-making process.

 

[Rubi SoHo]

Ever heard of TLDR?

If you want to get thousands of folks emailing our position to the right place, you need to provide one contact and easy/quick to read instructions. I get lazy people to advocate for a position I'm passionate about by making my request short and provide a template for them to copy/paste or edit. For example,

email to ????
I support option A, but if that fails, my 2nd choice is option D.

You might want to warn folks
Comments containing only opinions or preferences will not receive a formal response but may be considered in the BLM decision-making process.

Oops, sorry. I’ve got people saying I didn’t include enough info, now you saying I included too much. In reality, I just copied and pasted the RR4W email here for all to read.

So I’m sorry if it wore you out reading the OP. The question is, did you comment?

 

[jaymz]

The problem is that with groups like SUWA on board, one closure is never enough. They’ll be back for more soon enough.

Yep. Oceano Dunes a.k.a. Pismo Beach is likely going to be completely closed to all motorized vehicles by 2024.

And as a firearms enthusiast, I can PROMISE you with 100% confidence, that one closure/ban/restriction will NEVER be enough. It's only the beginning.

Fortunately, there are groups on all sides, and especially members within each of those groups that are forward thinking, realistic, and looking to leave something better than they found it. I'll take one closure now to keep 20 open. Especially if non-mechanized access is still available.

Maybe you can agree that Utah is being loved to death, by you and me included. Our population is booming, and that also means our shared spaces are getting a lot more use. I see vehicles (and trash) now in places that I'd rarely see signs of even 5-6 years ago. Especially as UTVs, vanlife, cell service, GPS, social media, etc. has made it easier for more people to find and get there.

Most people are respectful and great about all of it. But as with everything, this follows the 10% are ass holes, 10% are fantastic, and 80% are just the average rule. That 10% is now a lot more people. And I have heard many of them indifferent to the greater community.

Or they could just let the 80% police the 10%.

 

[gandk]

I haven't read the full tread yet and appologize if someone already posted this.

This link takes you to Participate.

https://eplanning.blm.gov/eplanning-ui/project/2001224/510

Scroll to the right and click Participate Now.

 

[leeshuming]

I just found this out. I was planning to go to Moab next summer.
This is getting ridiculous, the government is already forcing/directing us to use EV and cutting this iconic trail is just a beginning way to tell us to stop off roading..
Soon, the land of the free is no longer free.

 

[fogby]

Just commented. Thanks for the heads up.

I've never been to Moab, but plan to in the future. Recently moved to high mountains of CO (Breck). Does Moab have a lot of side by sides/motorcycles/4 wheelers? And are the trails close to any residences?

Reason I ask is that out here a lot of the locals really dislike these vehicles. And I've already had a few instances where I didn't really appreciate them. On the trails there can be such a speed differential between these and regular highway 4x4's - danger when meeting. Then sometimes you'll have 2-strokes illegally driving on public, paved roads. Probably one of those things where 10% are bad apples, but it leaves an impression on the permanent residents.

The long-term locals say the off-road folks are much less respectful than in the past. I just chalk it up to volume.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Email sent:

I've been visiting the Moab UT area for nearly 30 years, and have enjoyed responsible backcountry access in my Jeep the entire time.

The Labyrinth Rims Gemini Bridges Travel Management proposals include some good options, but also include some ludicrous options.

May I ask you: What problem are you trying to solve by restricting access to our well-established trails in the Grand County backcountry?


Closing off access by any amount violates both the BLM's Mission and Priorities:





The only acceptable option for government action - a government OF the people, BY the people & FOR the people, is to do nothing (Option A).

Hey, have not seen around lately, what have you been up to, you still over on Ford Truck Forum, good to see you again! Thanks for the letter!

 

[Old Jeeper]

Folks, been around so-called "activists" since the '60s. My first encounter was a dark cold sleeting night stepping off a plane in SEATC airport in '68.

NEVER ignore them or think it ain't gonna happen. They got the Military Draft killed which went back to 1863 and was one of the worst things that has happened to this country.

They start out asking for just a little, but in fact, they want not just a LOT, but all. In this case, SHUT DOWN! They hate Jeeps, they hate off-roaders, or anything that does not fit their narrative of how the world should be.

So, take a few min to write a letter, it's a vote, and make your vote count by writing a letter.

El Jefe posted his letter, sure he would not oppose you using it as a thought guide and what you need to say. Like him I have been going there for many many years and it would be a shame to have it taken away from us.

 

[uawho]

This thread is great reading. Pushing the limits on a few occasions, but pulled back to good discourse just in time.

From a logical view - forget about solutions for a minute. These can be asked and answered (with maybe some disagreement of course)

1) Q: can the Moab support an ever increasing level of use, similar to current use patterns, but with increasing amounts?
A: No. Not indefinitely. Go to the extreme, and extrapolate what 10 times the number of vehicles would do.

2) Q: Should something be done now/soon/near future before any permanent damage is done?
A: probably. What that solution looks like, is up to debate


Proposal options:
1) do nothing, let the chips fall where they may
2) eliminate all vehicle use
3) allow same uses, but impose new rules and enforcement to protect the area
4) reduce/limit vehicle use, and impose new rules and enforcement


This is where the disagreements start. People feel differently about many things. But a compromise (solution 3 or 4 from above) is the right way to approach it.
Far end, one side, "hikers only" supporters will not be happy. Even farther one side "nobody allowed" will ALSO not be happy.
Other side "everyone can do whatever they want and it is what it is" will not be happy.

 

[Rscx4]

Or we could create and open new trails, increase the opportunities for recreational activities, and support good clean family fun.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

and often they are saving the world for our grandkids. Look at photos of the rivers in Ohio before and after the EPA laws were written.
read THE JUNGLE by Upton Sinclair
look at photos of LA smog in the 1970s vs now.

I don’t totally disagree with you. With the increased use of these trails, things will need to change, and some closures may be necessary; That’s just the name of the game unfortunately, especially with all the knuckleheads who suddenly found off roading can’t respect the land.
However- there is a difference between preservation and straight up exceptionalism/ fanaticism. Go check the mission statements of some of the big anti-access groups: Sierra Club, The Nature Conservancy, etc. Look up the actual designation for “Forever Wild” land.

(Disclaimer: this is not an anti-government rant)
I live in the Northeast. I grew up on ATV’S. I’ve been active in organized off roading since 1989. I have had various family and friends involved in pro-access orgs across NYS including the NYS trails council. I worked closely with members of my Jeep club on land use issues for 4x4’s since I started wheeling in 2005. I’ve seen countless friends and family members try to work toward a mutual, managed access solution, pour in countless hours and raise money for various trail funds, only to have the program get shut down one way or another, and that money funneled into a “general fund“ and basically raided at the end of the fiscal year for pet projects of politically connected people. This has been going on since the 1970’s. Both parties are locked by lobbyists from anti-access groups like The Sierra Club, the Nature Conservancy, and regulated with an iron fist by agencies like the Adirondack Park Agency. Despite local support from both citizens and politicians- the plans always get shutdown when they go to the state level for approval. Hell, several years back NYS was on the verge of passing a state funded trail system in the Adirondacks, but it was shot down. Reason: several reps from NYC/ Long Island voted it down because it “allowed too much acces for their liking.” No other reasoning. No evidence. No environmental impact studies. No local opposition.
This is why we have virtually no public motorized or multi-use trails open to Jeeps/4x4’s in NYS. The trails we did have, have gotten shutdown thanks to local hillbillies smashing beers and tearing them up, causing complaints from neighbors and liability issues for the towns. The local municipality then decides to relinquish control of the road to the state, and the state closes them. The only trails we have left in NYS are on private property. Surrounding states have had very similar issues.
However- In recent years there have been several high profile trails in my area that have successfully achieved a managed access solution thanks to the tireless work of several groups establishing a good working relationship with local DEC/DEP offices, and showing the positive impact and support of OHV users and tourism on the surrounding areas. My hope Is that with time, and mounting support- we may actually be able to get some sort of public land use/ managed access agreement.
This is why it is so important to oppose restrictive closures like the ones proposed in Moab. And that’s what I’m referring to when I say “some people truly believe they’re saving the world”.
There’s a big difference between enforcing regulations for clean air and water, and safe working conditions, consumer protections, etc; and proposing overly restrictive measures to close one of the main avenues of tourism that helped build an entire area and still attracts people from around the world.
Again, I’m not disagreeing with you- something needs to be done. But to think there aren’t forces out there with their own agenda is naive at best.

This thread is great reading. Pushing the limits on a few occasions, but pulled back to good discourse just in time.

From a logical view - forget about solutions for a minute. These can be asked and answered (with maybe some disagreement of course)

1) Q: can the Moab support an ever increasing level of use, similar to current use patterns, but with increasing amounts?
A: No. Not indefinitely. Go to the extreme, and extrapolate what 10 times the number of vehicles would do.

2) Q: Should something be done now/soon/near future before any permanent damage is done?
A: probably. What that solution looks like, is up to debate


Proposal options:
1) do nothing, let the chips fall where they may
2) eliminate all vehicle use
3) allow same uses, but impose new rules and enforcement to protect the area
4) reduce/limit vehicle use, and impose new rules and enforcement


This is where the disagreements start. People feel differently about many things. But a compromise (solution 3 or 4 from above) is the right way to approach it.
Far end, one side, "hikers only" supporters will not be happy. Even farther one side "nobody allowed" will ALSO not be happy.
Other side "everyone can do whatever they want and it is what it is" will not be happy.

Exactly. Compromise will be best for everyone involved. Fingers crossed that’s what we actually get.

 

[GATORB8]

Bump.

Reminder, we have until this Friday to send thoughts to BLM.

Regardless of your opinion on the best option, this is one of the few opportunities the community has to have their voices heard.

BLM is federal, this isn't just for Moab locals. This and future changes can have impacts across other locations we love to Jeep.

Interestingly, we're currently exploring Wyoming, and the BLM lands here (Red Desert) are in a different fight of their own. If any one is curious: https://reddesert.org/

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