Moab’s best trails threatened…

[Rubi SoHo]

Bump. Even though we see differing opinions in this thread…thanks for keeping it civil.

Bump for the evening crowd

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[jaymz]

The advent of EVs, from Bikes, to every description of Off Road vehicle, will go a long way to address the noise complaints, chances of fires from hot exhaust/ emissions components ; Drones could be excellent platforms to prevent bad behavior that jeopardizes trail use for all.
Closing trails and access for reasons that will no longer exist in 5 years is short sighted

And let’s not forget that an EV similar in size to an ICE vehicle is typically close to 1000lbs heavier. EV’s will most likely cause more real harm in an off-road environment than an ICE vehicle.

 

[kubicon]

And of course there is this.

Assuming you are getting that for the beach vs driving your Jeep on it? That eco-system is no less precious and we need to save beaches for our grandkids.

As others have mentioned the hypocrisy is unbelievable. Your carbon footprint from this thread - You drive a Jeep, You (assume) flew to Brazil and you drive on beaches.

Fun fact, a quick search of "driving on beach destroys ecosystem" pulls up a number of studies, still trying to find some MOAB studies as I want to make an informed decision.

We all need to be a lot more environmentally conscious, but if we invoke the "grandkids" to support a viewpoint one would assume we follow that for all aspects of our daily lives.

 

[64Chevy]

I don't post here much (drive a JK, not a JL). I've been to Moab (and the surrounding areas) a half a dozen times in the past 7 years. I think this is a 5% problem (or 10%, or 15%--pick your percentage). There are littering, obnoxious, idiot hikers, bikers, ATVers, Jeepers, hunters, fisherfolk, etc. On the other side are the overzealous environmentalists, who want the experience exactly one way, and who don't want to share, compromise, accommodate and/or who see it as a negative sum game (any human interaction with any wild place is bad and must be stopped). I am a mountain biker, Jeeper, explorer, fisher, etc. I also collect trash, tread lightly, and volunteer hundreds of hours a year for a land trust in Oregon, along with giving money to selected "environmental" causes (the Peregrine Fund is one). I think many Jeepers, to bring this back, care about where they are off-roading, don't like to see trash, appreciate seeing nature, etc. It is too bad that the 5 percenters on both sides are controlling the issues and the narratives.

 

[falcon241073]

It is too bad that the 5 percenters on both sides are controlling the issues and the narratives.

isn’t it that way for most subjects of discussion?

the Moab area has had a population boom (for its size) the past several years. The people moving there do not and will not rely on tourism dollars. So they push for these types of measures to make the area more like what they want and where they came from. They don’t look at the long term economic issues shutting down off-roading will bring. It will not affect them much. They don’t buy tshirts and trinkets. They can’t go out to eat enough to support all the restaurants. They don’t stay in the hotels, motels and rv parks. They don’t use the Offroad guide companies. Etc etc. When the town is crushed economically and half the shops and restaurants close then these people will move on.

I’ll follow the link in the first posts. I’ll let my voice be heard. I’ll enjoy my time on the trails in a week from now while I’m in Moab.If they start shutting more trails down I’ll move on. Sand Hollow is looking more and more like my new destination of choice for my yearly trips out west. It’ll be awhile before they are as crowded as moab gets. But they will be. Then the “environmentalist” will go and attack the St George area. By then I’ll be to old to care anymore.

 

[64Chevy]

isn’t it that way for most subjects of discussion?

the Moab area has had a population boom (for its size) the past several years. The people moving there do not and will not rely on tourism dollars. So they push for these types of measures to make the area more like what they want and where they came from. They don’t look at the long term economic issues shutting down off-roading will bring. It will not affect them much. They don’t buy tshirts and trinkets. They can’t go out to eat enough to support all the restaurants. They don’t stay in the hotels, motels and rv parks. They don’t use the Offroad guide companies. Etc etc. When the town is crushed economically and half the shops and restaurants close then these people will move on.

And here is one thing I think folks don't get. Lotsa folks support infrastructure that people don't always think about but that does effect quality of life (think great product selection in grocery stores, medical care/providers, robust trades-plumbing, HVAC, auto repair and service). My parents live outside of a town of about 2000 people--but it is a big tourist area--so those services are much better than a town of 2000 would usually have. I get when you live somewhere you want it how you want it, but it is also important to understand the positives that the things you may not want bring to town.

Having said that there is this. Moab, the last time we were there, was a zoo--as an example we sat in a 60 minute traffic jam trying to get back into town on a weekday at 7pm. Also, Hans Flats was packed--it is what it is, and I'm not saying it is wrong, but it wasn't my jam. Moab has a growth management problem, and I guess closing trails is easier than, for example, instituting a permit/check system or other measures that might ease the congestion and other negative tourist issues.

 

[Jtclayton612]

A permit system could be an interesting solution.

quite a few of the popular hikes I go on/want to go on not only have permits but a lottery system, (looking at you JMT) that help preserve the ecosystems from mass amounts of hikers

 

[cornercanyon]

The OP missed a great opportunity here to encourage meaningful engagement by instructing folks how to respond and comment.

Instead, please take the time to follow the links, study the mapping, read the reports before reacting to one trumpet. Tread Lightly's precepts are all based upon responsible off roading and improving community. Commenting without educating yourself is irresponsible, not democratic, and certainly not treading lightly.

We are called to be part of the solution, doing less is part of the problem. Educate yourself and comment from your heart—

 

[RubiSc0tt]

Thanks for posting OP. I'm going to share this post to a handful of the groups I'm active in and admin for- preserving access is everyone's duty.

 

[MNGladiator]

I just recently returned from South Dakota and leave for Moab next week. My question is does Utah have an OHV permit. To use the public trails in SD, I had to buy a permit and attach to my front windshield. I have never had to get one in Moab, but wondering why not if money is an issue for care of the trails. I purchased the annual permit for $25.00 and would gladly pay for one in Utah.

 

[Rubi SoHo]

I just recently returned from South Dakota and leave for Moab next week. My question is does Utah have an OHV permit. To use the public trails in SD, I had to buy a permit and attach to my front windshield. I have never had to get one in Moab, but wondering why not if money is an issue for care of the trails. I purchased the annual permit for $25.00 and would gladly pay for one in Utah.

No such permit required in Utah

 

[RubiSc0tt]

I just recently returned from South Dakota and leave for Moab next week. My question is does Utah have an OHV permit. To use the public trails in SD, I had to buy a permit and attach to my front windshield. I have never had to get one in Moab, but wondering why not if money is an issue for care of the trails. I purchased the annual permit for $25.00 and would gladly pay for one in Utah.

There are people who are emotionally invested in causes such as this that work in regulatory agencies; It's not just a job, and it's not always about the money- some people truly believe they are saving the world.

 

[GearWhore]

This thread kind of got off the rails for a few pages, but good to see some sensibility and hopefully civility coming back.

Thank you OP for posting. I have been reviewing documents and forming some opinions (don't we all). OP's links didn't get to much information, but the following link is the BLM ePlanning page. Documents, Maps, and more are available on the left side of the page. Please take the time to review for yourself before commenting. There is a lot here.
https://eplanning.blm.gov/eplanning-ui/project/2001224/510

I am of the opinion that changes need to be made in the E-NE Moab area. And I do believe some trail closures to motorized vehicles will need to be part of that. I am quite familiar with these areas, and these trails are often just cattle trails or whisps of uranium exploration that grow quickly with only a few Jeeps or UTVs on them.

I have seen the positive changes that have come over the last 25 years as Moab and Grand Co have cracked down on illicit trails. I have seen the benefits of RR4W and the other community members/organizations have put into trail building, signage, restoration, and yes, fencing. There are not as many trails as there were, especially south and west of town, but the trails are better and the scenery has improved.

I see in some of the Alternative plans they call for E-bike specific routes, which I applaud, as they often don't mix with bicycle or vehicle traffic speeds.

There will likely be a few full vehicular closures with any of these plans, but hopefully those will lead to better maintenance, signage, and conditions for the majority that remain open. Also, most access is still available to those willing to hoof it (though I know some physically can't).

 

[cosmokenney]

It makes no sense.

It makes sense. Just think about the property tax revenue if the sell off all that land to rich San Francisco carpet baggers who want vacation homes there.

 

[Rubi SoHo]

There will likely be a few full vehicular closures with any of these plans, but hopefully those will lead to better maintenance, signage, and conditions for the majority that remain open.

The problem is that with groups like SUWA on board, one closure is never enough. They’ll be back for more soon enough.

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