Moab’s best trails threatened…

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Rubi SoHo

Rubi SoHo

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Be careful, we’re on the edge of getting “No politics warning”. Don’t get close to the truth or go against the narrative and everything will be fine. It only gets called political if you disagree.
I don’t think we’ve discussed politics at all really.

 

BDinTX

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No wonder you live in Texas.
hold up, most of us in Texas like guns, Jeeps with internal combustion engines, and breakfast burritos.
You shouldn’t lump us all together.

The private parks here are pathetic compared to what Mother Nature has to offer. The one possible exception might be Merus Adventure park which costs $850 annually so no thanks.
 

Astro Jeep

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We have seen how the term "follow the science" has been tossed about the last few years. It has been used to shame anyone with a differing opinion. The problem with '"follow the science" of late is that the "science" has more often than not been shown to be wrong.

This is not just a reference to the pandemic, but to the self anointed protectors of the environment. I am a believer in climate change, but I am also a believer in not telling everyone that "the sky is falling" and that we only "have 12 more years left before we have irreversible consequences."

There should be moderation. We should be able to enjoy our lives and prosperity while at the same time protecting the environment. Some places such as National Parks should be protected. Places like Moab have already been designated by common usage over time as a vehicular play area and should remain as such.

I guarantee you if Moab is shut down there will be even more areas damaged by off roading. Since Moab will be essentially off limits people like myself will search elsewhere to offload and will blaze new trails thus damaging even more of the environment.

Additionally, you will irreversibly damage the economy of Moab. How many businesses will be shut down? How many people will lose their jobs? There won't be enough hikers and bikers to sustain the economy of Moab at the current level.

Personally I think the National Park Service should take over the area and designate it as a National Off-Road Vehicular Park. Charge an entrance fee. Put cameras up all over the place and mail out massive fines to those that litter and go off designated trails. The fees could cover the cost of protecting the area while allowing off roaders to do their thing.
 

Astro Jeep

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X-Treme

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We have seen how the term "follow the science" has been tossed about the last few years. It has been used to shame anyone with a differing opinion. The problem with '"follow the science" of late is that the "science" has more often than not been shown to be wrong.

This is not just a reference to the pandemic, but to the self anointed protectors of the environment. I am a believer in climate change, but I am also a believer in not telling everyone that "the sky is falling" and that we only "have 12 more years left before we have irreversible consequences."

There should be moderation. We should be able to enjoy our lives and prosperity while at the same time protecting the environment. Some places such as National Parks should be protected. Places like Moab have already been designated by common usage over time as a vehicular play area and should remain as such.

I guarantee you if Moab is shut down there will be even more areas damaged by off roading. Since Moab will be essentially off limits people like myself will search elsewhere to offload and will blaze new trails thus damaging even more of the environment.

Additionally, you will irreversibly damage the economy of Moab. How many businesses will be shut down? How many people will lose their jobs? There won't be enough hikers and bikers to sustain the economy of Moab at the current level.

Personally I think the National Park Service should take over the area and designate it as a National Off-Road Vehicular Park. Charge an entrance fee. Put cameras up all over the place and mail out massive fines to those that litter and go off designated trails. The fees could cover the cost of protecting the area while allowing off roaders to do their thing.
Can you imagine the monetary loss if EJS was turned away?
 


jimcoffey62

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DadJokes

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Man, the likely hypocrisy coming from those who often agree with restriction of access to PUBLIC lands is no longer surprising. They’re probably all for strip mining and digging for ores to produce more “green” batteries (some dug up by 6 year old kids in the mud and dirt under unsafe work conditions in the Congo). They’re non recyclable so that’s trash. Toxic trash. Then there’s the habitat/scenery killing solar farms and windmills. That’s not environmental. Nor is it habitat conservation. But let’s worry about first world problems like motorized noise, right? So these self declared champions of protecting something decide who gets in and who doesn’t and how much rubber (from a tire or shoe) is left behind? Maybe the animals are completely in shock from our mere presence and nobody should get in. Ever. Then it’s kinda hard to sell being a real conservationist and environmentalist habitat protector if nobody appreciates the beauty because they cannot see it. Well, maybe except Google Earth?

I could agree to compromise and let the area rest for a season or two but my opinion is it should be agreed upon and brief. If you close one, how much more traffic does another pick up? Do these people indefinitely closing trails think someone will cancel their plans altogether? I wouldn’t. I’d just drive, leave rubber, and make noise on another. You know what else I always do, in addition to teaching my kids the same, is if I see trash, we take it with us. We try to leave it better. I hike some too. The trailheads aren’t always just off paved roads. So we’re ok with that trail use to get to a hiking trailhead? I know a Jeep is heavier and can damage a trail more than person can in a short amount of time, but limiting that use, the argument will then eventually be made to eliminate human interaction because over a longer time, people can and have done the same damage. One might think that’s absurd now, but give it another 20 years of the current thinking.

And how much good do these local, and sometimes not even local, groups do to clean up after others…without regard to how trash etc got there? There’s good people out there not just talking the talk.
 
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jimcoffey62

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Balancing use now vs keeping a wild area wild for our great grandkids shouldn’t be political.
 

four low

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The advent of EVs, from Bikes, to every description of Off Road vehicle, will go a long way to address the noise complaints, chances of fires from hot exhaust/ emissions components ; Drones could be excellent platforms to prevent bad behavior that jeopardizes trail use for all.
Closing trails and access for reasons that will no longer exist in 5 years is short sighted
 

Ruby Mike

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Balancing use now vs keeping a wild area wild for our great grandkids shouldn’t be political.
I keep hearing "saving lands for our children". If you close an area now, it will be closed then. I know that some groups will never be happy until all southern Utah is closed to any mechanized use. Without going political, consider this. Over 100 million acres of public lands are in the wilderness system. Big ear national monument was returned to original size.
I normally stay out of conversations like this because it becomes emotional and facts tend to go out the window. In Sounther California the majority of desert lands are either wilderness, national parks or preserves. Yet the push for more "wilderness" continues.
Is there rubber on the trails at Moab, yes. Is it destroying nature, no. (My humble opinion)
Do we now control and deny access by vehicles today and tomorrow? I can no longer be the active hiker I was in my youth. (Knee replacement, heart attack and generally older) I rely on using my jeep to enjoy the wild places.
Are there reckless and rogue jeep, OHV users? Yes. Are there reckless and rogue hikers? Again yes.
What is the answer. In my humble opinion, allow access to our wild areas by vehicles. Keep the wilderness and national parks as they are. Encourage and most importantly be involved with trail maintenance and clean up, be involved with local 4x4 groups. Tread lightly. Practice what we preach. Educate others and speak out when you see something wrong.
The future of our activity is in our hands. Provide comments to the BLM. Don't be passive.
 


BDinTX

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On one hand I like the fact that the back and forth is keeping this thread at the top, hopefully encouraging more and more people to take action.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that @jimcoffey62 could own a Jeep and actually believe there isn’t a better solution than eliminating access.

I suspect you just like to argue for sport though.

What is the answer. In my humble opinion, allow access to our wild areas by vehicles. Keep the wilderness and national parks as they are. Encourage and most importantly be involved with trail maintenance and clean up, be involved with local 4x4 groups. Tread lightly. Practice what we preach. Educate others and speak out when you see something wrong.
The future of our activity is in our hands. Provide comments to the BLM. Don't be passive.
100% Mike, well said. I would add “enforce existing laws and rules” but that seems to be a foreign concept to our government.
 

Anonymous

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Bump. Even though we see differing opinions in this thread…thanks for keeping it civil.
 

jimcoffey62

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And of course there is this.
1662913965528.jpeg
 

jimcoffey62

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I didn’t ask for credentials. I politely asked you to share some peer reviewed data. An appeal to authority fallacy won’t cut it on its own.
not blowing you off. I’m on holiday in Brazil.
And I didn’t invoke an appeal to authority. I actually am an authority on plastics and rubber. I wrote the faq for sci.polymers

 

Capital CDJR
 
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