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Moab’s best trails threatened…

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Rubi SoHo

Rubi SoHo

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The amazing Red Rock area belongs to all Americans, not just those who live nearby and not just those with enough spare money to buy a jeep. Motorized traffic by definition scars the landscape. Note the trail of black rubber on the red rock. While I applaud the goals of the jeep "tread lightly" program, to those of us who backpack and hike - it's impossible to tread lightly in a jeep or a motorcycle. We need a few roads, so you can get to a reasonable hiking distance of things.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
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Some of these "jeep trails" really should be for hiking.
If you can walk it faster than a jeep can drive it ... maybe it shouldn't be a jeep trail at all.

And FYI - you can flame all you want, doesn't bother me a bit. I want to have great wilderness with wildlife for my great grandkids to enjoy.

I grew up in the Desert. The desert ecosystem is very fragile. Animals evolved to adapt to silence, our noisy vehicles screw up their normal hunting and feeding patterns. Our exhaust kills the plants they need to live. The rubber from our tires ends up in their water.

I don't want to shut down all motorize trails, but let's think about what we want the area to look like 100 years from now.
If you can walk it faster than a jeep can drive it ... maybe it shouldn't be a jeep trail at all.
Have you seen lionsback ridge? Nobody drives it and the black is gone in no time. Scaring is not an issue.
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Sublime

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The amazing Red Rock area belongs to all Americans, not just those who live nearby and not just those with enough spare money to buy a jeep. Motorized traffic by definition scars the landscape. Note the trail of black rubber on the red rock. While I applaud the goals of the jeep "tread lightly" program, to those of us who backpack and hike - it's impossible to tread lightly in a jeep or a motorcycle. We need a few roads, so you can get to a reasonable hiking distance of things.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
1662747418068.png

1662747758392.png

1662747832806.png


Some of these "jeep trails" really should be for hiking.
If you can walk it faster than a jeep can drive it ... maybe it shouldn't be a jeep trail at all.

And FYI - you can flame all you want, doesn't bother me a bit. I want to have great wilderness with wildlife for my great grandkids to enjoy.

I grew up in the Desert. The desert ecosystem is very fragile. Animals evolved to adapt to silence, our noisy vehicles screw up their normal hunting and feeding patterns. Our exhaust kills the plants they need to live. The rubber from our tires ends up in their water.

I don't want to shut down all motorize trails, but let's think about what we want the area to look like 100 years from now.
If you can walk it faster than a jeep can drive it ... maybe it shouldn't be a jeep trail at all.
There's no shortage of hikable land in this country. Funny how a person can go missing and it can take weeks to find them, if at all, in these areas that are supposedly over-visited.
 
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Rubi SoHo

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Point taken. So the question then becomes:
Where did all that black rubber go?
Which animals ate it. Which soil system had the pH changed and what did the plants think?

Desert ecosystems are extremely fragile.

The problem for us as humans is that it doesn't seem to be a big deal, because it happens really slowly. I noticed as I was driving around in Africa that there was a dead zone about 3 feet wide on each side of the highway, and the locals had learned not to plant their crops and gardens too close to a road ... because they still use tetra ethyl lead as an octane improver and the lead fumes kill plants.
I think the onus is on you to prove what you’re claiming. Not on the rest of us to prove that your (potentially made up) claim is false.
 
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By definition this thread needs to be shut down!

pol·i·tics
/ˈpäləˌtiks/
noun
the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.
 

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Chance_P

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Point taken. So the question then becomes:
Where did all that black rubber go?
Which animals ate it. Which soil system had the pH changed and what did the plants think?

Desert ecosystems are extremely fragile.

The problem for us as humans is that it doesn't seem to be a big deal, because it happens really slowly. I noticed as I was driving around in Africa that there was a dead zone about 3 feet wide on each side of the highway, and the locals had learned not to plant their crops and gardens too close to a road ... because they still use tetra ethyl lead as an octane improver and the lead fumes kill plants.
Where does the rubber from your shoes go when they wear down?

What is an acceptable amount of rubber to leave in the wild?

Who is in charge of making that decision?

Who am I to decide where you should be able to walk?

Everyone has a different level of what they find acceptable. There becomes a problem when people try to impose theirs on others.
 

Tncdrew

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By definition this thread needs to be shut down!

pol·i·tics
/ˈpäləˌtiks/
noun
the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.
This thread is probably more important to the longevity of our shared interest/hobby than 95% of the threads on this forum, so I respectfully disagree.
 

uawho

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I feel a lot of the pushback against "Jeepers" is due to those who mistreat the environment in the first place. Target practice, leave the shells, dump the appliances, etc.

Those people are Jeepers too and give everyone else a bad name. The hiking/walking only bunch then grabs that image and says all Jeepers get out!

Restriction of trails in PROVEN sensitive areas: OK, I get it
Restriction of trails to motorized vehicles because you don't want to hear or see a vehicle: No way.
Extremely stiff penalties and more budget for enforcement of laws against damage/pollution/garbage: Absolutely!

There are tons of BLM and AZ state land around me, and if I see a ranger when I'm out just farting around I'm happy! My pleasure to show him my permit. Happy to see there's someone enforcing some semblance of rules.

And if I lived in Moab and relied on the tourism, I'd support additional taxes to better fund the enforcement. Everyone gets access, just don't f*** it all up people!
 

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Everyone has a different level of what they find acceptable. There becomes a problem when people try to impose theirs on others.
As if the off road community isn't trying to impose its will as well. Life is politics and negotiations.
 

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BDinTX

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I emailed the ladies but I guess I’m to dense to find where you cast a vote
 
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Rubi SoHo

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I emailed the ladies but I guess I’m to dense to find where you cast a vote
i think the goal is simply to email the BLM reps, anyone else seen differently?
 

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Has this been cross posted on the Gladiator forum?
 

BDinTX

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i think the goal is simply to email the BLM reps, anyone else seen differently?
lol ok good.
I was looking at all the links trying to find options A-D…
 

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The amazing Red Rock area belongs to all Americans, not just those who live nearby and not just those with enough spare money to buy a jeep. Motorized traffic by definition scars the landscape. Note the trail of black rubber on the red rock. While I applaud the goals of the jeep "tread lightly" program, to those of us who backpack and hike - it's impossible to tread lightly in a jeep or a motorcycle. We need a few roads, so you can get to a reasonable hiking distance of things.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
1662747418068.png

1662747758392.png

1662747832806.png


Some of these "jeep trails" really should be for hiking.
If you can walk it faster than a jeep can drive it ... maybe it shouldn't be a jeep trail at all.

And FYI - you can flame all you want, doesn't bother me a bit. I want to have great wilderness with wildlife for my great grandkids to enjoy.

I grew up in the Desert. The desert ecosystem is very fragile. Animals evolved to adapt to silence, our noisy vehicles screw up their normal hunting and feeding patterns. Our exhaust kills the plants they need to live. The rubber from our tires ends up in their water.

I don't want to shut down all motorize trails, but let's think about what we want the area to look like 100 years from now.
If you can walk it faster than a jeep can drive it ... maybe it shouldn't be a jeep trail at all.
Most “Jeep trails” can be walked faster than they can be driven. Should we shut them all down? And FWIW, anything with a tire is going to leave black marks given enough time and a proper surface.
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