Metal cloak 3.5 and death wobble

[Dr. RGB]

If definitely look there first, but don’t be to quick to rule out ball joints… there’s documented cases of them not being torqued from factory….. I’d make sure they’re tight and then do ball joint test so you can for sure rule them out….

I chased DW for a while, replaced everything except the ball joints (25,000 miles right now). Replaced the ball joints last weekend and guess what? No more DW. You will have to replace them anyway, as they are total garbage. Teraflex were the cheapest and actually easy to install.

Sponsored

 

[Rodeoflyer]

Mine are likely shot as well at 50k.. it's just odd that a trackbar replacement and re-torque has resolved it multiple times...maybe I'm band-aiding it or its a multi pass lol

 

[Rodeoflyer]

When you rolled into my shop and said you had DW first things I did was the easy stuff and you would be suprised how often that cured it.

Caster: tire height alters the caster and alters the wheelbase so you need to adjust, in 1-degree increments. Does your Jeep drift from straight on the road, then you might want to add some cross-Caster, usually .5-1-degree max.

Wheel bearings/Ball joints: Rare on low mileage vehicles would only induce DW if not properly installed to spec.

Shocks: Look for possible leaking in one shock and do the fender test to see if the rebound/compression on both front shocks is the same

Tires: PSI is same in both and within recommended parameters for your tire size and vehicle weight.

Bump Steer Vs DW, they are not the same. Bump steer is an easy fix, DW not so much. Check Pittman arm for cent and a straight steering wheel

Steering Stabilizer: Look for a leak or remove and see if you can compress, and decompress easily by hand

That is most of the simple stuff that can induce DW, especially on brand-new vehicles where component wear has not impacted the suspension. Yet!

Everything tight

Everything centered and looking good.

At this point in time if you have not found a solution, replace the SS for sure, try to not continue driving DW only makes DW worse.

Lastly thank Jeep for using Y link suspension. as found on TJs. DW was NOT an option on TJs, it was OEM, no if you got it, but when you get it and it was a BEAR to get fixed!

I had a fox ats steering stab.. my trackbar bushings failed.. no shop can detect this with a human eye check. I now have a new trackbar, issue resolved and am back to the stock stabilizer. It's a bushing issue, maybe balljoints, but in the end an axle centering or wheel control issue.

HD steering masks it, a high end stab masks it, but in the end it's an axle control issue and the track bar controls that. You can add bracket enforcement, gearbox stuff but it's the axle or wheels moving side to side uncontrolled.

That can be caused my control arm bushings, ball joints, wheel bearings, but the main cause is the trackbar itself and you just can't SEE a bad bushing in the trackbar it takes such little amount of play. You have to swap it out.

 

[firedude]

If definitely look there first, but don’t be to quick to rule out ball joints… there’s documented cases of them not being torqued from factory….. I’d make sure they’re tight and then do ball joint test so you can for sure rule them out….

I am one who had loose balljoint. tierod and pitman arm nuts from the factory. Jeep only had 400 miles on it when I installed my lift and suspension. I would not trust a shop to check them. If you have to use a shop, make sure they pull cotter keys and check balljoint nuts. Mine were all paint marked and keyed and two were fairly loose and one was very loose. Pitman arm nut was scary loose also. I would highly recommend you get under there and do the torqueing. Don't even get me started on alignment that a lot of shops do... or charge for or....

 

[Rodeoflyer]

All the loose stuff notwithstanding of course.

 

[Roky]

I had a fox ats steering stab.. my trackbar bushings failed.. no shop can detect this with a human eye check. I now have a new trackbar, issue resolved and am back to the stock stabilizer. It's a bushing issue, maybe balljoints, but in the end an axle centering or wheel control issue.

HD steering masks it, a high end stab masks it, but in the end it's an axle control issue and the track bar controls that. You can add bracket enforcement, gearbox stuff but it's the axle or wheels moving side to side uncontrolled.

That can be caused my control arm bushings, ball joints, wheel bearings, but the main cause is the trackbar itself and you just can't SEE a bad bushing in the trackbar it takes such little amount of play. You have to swap it out.

Since he has the MCGC I’m assuming he has their track bar already…..

 

[Rodeoflyer]

Yes he could but my MC trackbar bushings failed inside of 20k miles.

I even posted about this regarding their non heim solid bushings

Was it a fluke? maybe but the trackbar failed in about 15k miles.

It's just my 'assumption' and really that's all it is.. i haven't personally replaced the bushings, just replaced the front track bar four times, but with different manufacturers.

the stock one, then a synergy, then the metalcloak (which failed and caused massive DW), then back to the synergy and now on a johnny joint type which have never failed me across several vehicles from rock jock.

I'm sure a heim like rock krawler uses is just a durable.. I just don't trust these new fangled 'soft' joints that say they will articulate like a heim.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

I even think my rear is going bad now with the synergy 'dual durometer' that will be replaced with heim/johnny joint as well.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I had a fox ats steering stab.. my trackbar bushings failed.. no shop can detect this with a human eye check. I now have a new trackbar, issue resolved and am back to the stock stabilizer. It's a bushing issue, maybe balljoints, but in the end an axle centering or wheel control issue.

HD steering masks it, a high end stab masks it, but in the end it's an axle control issue and the track bar controls that. You can add bracket enforcement, gearbox stuff but it's the axle or wheels moving side to side uncontrolled.

That can be caused my control arm bushings, ball joints, wheel bearings, but the main cause is the trackbar itself and you just can't SEE a bad bushing in the trackbar it takes such little amount of play. You have to swap it out.

IF it hangs down under the front frame it plays a role, maybe minor maybe major, been saying this for 25 years. That is WHY I start simple and work my way thru until I identify the issue(s), then I figure out how to mitigate it and been doing so since my case of DW in 1969...

 

[Jeff2018]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the advice.

The trackbar is Metalcloak.

What I am calling DW is an oscillation that can begin with even a small bump that causes the front end to jump around almost uncontrollably. The only way to get it to stop is to reduce the speed to between 10 and 0 MPH. The Jeep tracks straight... no issues with wandering, and the steering wheel is centered.

I'll check all the fasteners again. I'll follow the advice to check ball joint torque, (and movement) too. After that I'll look into upgrading other components.

Thanks again.

Jeff

 

[Rodeoflyer]

IF you can, swap your factory front trackbar back on..just to see

 

[Rodeoflyer]

Keep all the factory parts from upgrades as well.. so you can swap those back on... I know death wobble from every solid front axle vehicle I've ever owned over 30 years.

They keep saying it's resolved but its never been resolved.

I had a CJ back in 85 same thing, it's not resolved.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the advice.

The trackbar is Metalcloak.

What I am calling DW is an oscillation that can begin with even a small bump that causes the front end to jump around almost uncontrollably. The only way to get it to stop is to reduce the speed to between 10 and 0 MPH. The Jeep tracks straight... no issues with wandering, and the steering wheel is centered.

I'll check all the fasteners again. I'll follow the advice to check ball joint torque, (and movement) too. After that I'll look into upgrading other components.

Thanks again.

Jeff

Jeff if it occurs at that slow of a speed from just a minor bump be sure to check you caster, especially if you have moved to taller than OEM tires.. Not sure on the OEM JL what caster is recommended but taller tires do make a difference. Check your caster angle on the axle pinion, if its at 0 then your angle should be at 6. If you are higher than 6 try backing off one turn at a time see if it shows any improvement. If not after a couple of turns begin to add one turn at a time. Do you know your rear axle caster? It should be around 1.5 - 2.5, if you are not having any vibes leave it alone.

 

[Jeff2018]

Hi Old Jeeper,

The caster was set to 6.3 earlier this year. It was 5.4 prior to adjusting. I didn't experience death wobble again until last week. We only put about 1,000 miles during that time. The weather is about the only change that stands out.

Metal Cloak recommends 6 to 6.5 degrees of caster. Other people I have spoken with recommend ~7 degrees.

I haven't checked the rear. Based on what I feel when the DW happens the problem is with the front..

Thanks for everyone's input.

Jeff

 

[Old Jeeper]

Hi Old Jeeper,

The caster was set to 6.3 earlier this year. It was 5.4 prior to adjusting. I didn't experience death wobble again until last week. We only put about 1,000 miles during that time. The weather is about the only change that stands out.

Metal Cloak recommends 6 to 6.5 degrees of caster. Other people I have spoken with recommend ~7 degrees.

I haven't checked the rear. Based on what I feel when the DW happens the problem is with the front..

Thanks for everyone's input.

Jeff

I had them come into the shop with issues like that and I have always checked (measured) the length of all the front control arms.

Key on solving DW is to check that everything is correct. I remember a guy brought his Jeep in on a trailer and asked what is the Trailer for. He told me I have DW at less than 10 mph and it just gets more violent. I asked him when it started and he said he put on new control arms. What it ended it being was he did not dial in his caster correctly.

Just remember if it hangs under the front end it can be a contributor to DW.

Sponsored