Manual Transmission and T-Case Fluid Change Today

[DanW]

I'm not surprised that you found the specs tight around minimum passing values. Most oil companies formulate to barely meet specifications with the lowest priced formulation possible to be priced competitive with each other and for OEM bidding. Fortunately, there are a very few companies that formulate to be far superior.

.....And cue the commercial...

You are leaving something out....The formulation of ATF+4 is a tightly controlled one to earn FCA certification. It is known in the industry that FCA is very controlling of this. That's why your favorite brand doesn't say it is certified, but rather meets or exceeds. Which I'm sure it does, by a good margin. I'll be looking at their spec sheet next.

But the minimum here is VERY good and goes FAR beyond what stressors a manual transmission or transfer case could possibly produce.

Btw, your fav brand's ATF flash point is significantly higher than typical, but pour point is a little lower than typical. Viscosity is in the normal range and VI is lower than typical. Looks like they targeted the high end temps, which is really what I'd want in an automatic transmission fluid if I had an auto tranny. Cold flow at -63 covers anyplace I'd ever go, including Yellowknife. (I wouldn't go there unless as a guest driver on Ice Road Truckers!)

Unfortunately, it is more expensive than Redline at $17 a quart. Love the bag, but I'd save the 9 bucks on a transmission fluid change (just over 2 quarts in a manual) if going boutique. The bag isn't worth that much.

If we could just get Supertech in a bag like that!

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[2020Sport]

.....And cue the commercial...

You are leaving something out....The formulation of ATF+4 is a tightly controlled one to earn FCA certification. It is known in the industry that FCA is very controlling of this. That's why your favorite brand doesn't say it is certified, but rather meets or exceeds. Which I'm sure it does, by a good margin. I'll be looking at their spec sheet next.

But the minimum here is VERY good and goes FAR beyond what stressors a manual transmission or transfer case could possibly produce.

Certifications are nice to meet the low end of the specs, but no guarantee that the one you buy on the shelf meets it. API and competitors found several certified motor oils that failed to meet the spec when purchased and tested off the shelf. I prefer products that greatly exceed minimum specs even after 180,000 miles of severe use.

 

[2020Sport]

.....And cue the commercial...

Btw, your fav brand's ATF flash point is significantly higher than typical, but pour point is a little lower than typical. Viscosity is in the normal range and VI is lower than typical.

Unfortunately, it is more expensive than Redline at $17 a quart. Love the bag, but I'd save the 9 bucks on a transmission fluid change (just over 2 quarts in a manual) if going boutique. The bag isn't worth that much.

If we could just get Supertech in a bag like that!

With a wide temperature range, you don't want to add viscosity improvers (the weakest link) like the other brands have to maintain viscosity over a smaller range. Viscosity Improvers break down, producing a weaker fluid.

It is under $11 a quart bottle with a free wholesale account if you have a qualified business for a much better, longer lasting fluid. Other companies followed AMSOIL (the first to manufacture synthetic ATF for automotive use) so wouldn't be surprised if they come out with a bag someday.

Also check to see if the fluid comes with a written parts and labor warranty in the event the fluid fails. OEM warranty covers manufacturing defects, not fluid failures.

 

[intentsrig]

How warm do you think the transmission gets? If the engine oil temp is at 220, do you think it’s safe to say the atf in the transmissions is the same temp?

 

[DanW]

With a wide temperature range, you don't want to add viscosity improvers (the weakest link) like the other brands have to maintain viscosity over a smaller range. Viscosity Improvers break down, producing a weaker fluid.

It is under $11 a quart bottle with a free wholesale account if you have a qualified business for a much better, longer lasting fluid. Other companies followed AMSOIL (the first to manufacture synthetic ATF for automotive use) so wouldn't be surprised if they come out with a bag someday.

Also check to see if the fluid comes with a written parts and labor warranty in the event the fluid fails. OEM warranty covers manufacturing defects, not fluid failures.

There is nothing going on in a tranfer case or manual transmission that is even going to make any ATF+4 even yawn. You could run 100k miles on the cheapest one and do a UOA and it'd be fine. Nothing close to the temps or

How warm do you think the transmission gets? If the engine oil temp is at 220, do you think it’s safe to say the atf in the transmissions is the same temp?

I've heard 160 to 180 or maybe a little above that. An engine has combustion adding to the heat, but also is cooled. The manual tranny has neither, so I'd bet 200 is about as high as it would get, but I'm only guessing. So the typical temps would be less than half the flash point of most ATF+4 oils.

 

[DanW]

How warm do you think the transmission gets? If the engine oil temp is at 220, do you think it’s safe to say the atf in the transmissions is the same temp?

I've heard 160 to 180 or maybe a little above that. An engine has combustion adding to the heat, but also is cooled. The manual tranny has neither, so I'd bet 200 is about as high as it would get, but I'm only guessing. So the typical temps would be less than half the flash point of most ATF+4 oils.

 

[2020Sport]

You could run 100k miles on the cheapest one and do a UOA and it'd be fine.

. Any proof? Why are you changing yours earlier? Why does Jeep recommend every 30,000 miles?

 

[DanW]

. Any proof? Why are you changing yours earlier? Why does Jeep recommend every 30,000 miles?

Yes. I've seen many automatics, including my son's WJ, that went 100k on the factory fill. It looked decent when it came out. No unusual smells and still a nice red color. We bought it used, btw. I wouldn't have run that long, even if the manual says you can.

In a manual gearbox or transfer case, it wouldn't be stressed nearly as much, so I think 100k would be no problem for it.

I made my first change of both the T-case and manual transmission at 20k or 25k, or thereabouts. I'll probably do them again at 50k. I'm at 40k now.

 

[Ppita02]

I’m getting ready to remove my auto tranny pan. Water and sand is in it. When I drained it, water and sand colored fluid came out. So I figured I just take the pan off and clean the filter. Why not buy a new filter\pan? Well it’s on back order forever. So I’ll do my best to write something up. Btw for you 8 speed auto guys (including myself) DO NOT PUT ATF 4 in your tranny. Will not be pleasant. Have to use ZF automotive approved fluid. Also 8speed fluid is not red. It’s weird light green. Walmart sells online for $19.99 a qt. Takes a week to get in. So plan accordingly. To be continued...

 

[2020Sport]

Well it’s on back order forever. So I’ll do my best to write something up. Btw for you 8 speed auto guys (including myself) DO NOT PUT ATF 4 in your tranny. Will not be pleasant. Have to use ZF automotive approved fluid. Also 8speed fluid is not red. It’s weird light green. Walmart sells online for $19.99 a qt. Takes a week to get in. So plan accordingly. To be continued...

Correct. AMSOIL recommends their 100% synthetic required for ZF under $28 a gallon wholesale which typically ships in a couple of days. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3190.pdf?zo=1181889

 

[Ppita02]

Correct. AMSOIL recommends their 100% synthetic required for ZF under $28 a gallon wholesale which typically ships in a couple of days. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3190.pdf?zo=1181889

Awesome I will check it out! Thanks!

 

[2020Sport]

Awesome I will check it out! Thanks!

You're welcome. You can even pick up at the Arlington warehouse if you have an account. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[shum2007]

I’m getting ready to remove my auto tranny pan. Water and sand is in it. When I drained it, water and sand colored fluid came out. So I figured I just take the pan off and clean the filter. Why not buy a new filter\pan? Well it’s on back order forever. So I’ll do my best to write something up. Btw for you 8 speed auto guys (including myself) DO NOT PUT ATF 4 in your tranny. Will not be pleasant. Have to use ZF automotive approved fluid. Also 8speed fluid is not red. It’s weird light green. Walmart sells online for $19.99 a qt. Takes a week to get in. So plan accordingly. To be continued...

just want to make sure im doing this correctly.... i have an 8 speed auto, for the T case fluid, I would still use ATF+4 though correct?

 

[DanW]

just want to make sure im doing this correctly.... i have an 8 speed auto, for the T case fluid, I would still use ATF+4 though correct?

Yep. But if you have Selectrac you may want to double check it. I'm not familiar with that unit.

 

[Ppita02]

Preface. My Jeep was flooded in the front of the Jeep about 6ft under sandy beach water in the Canadian River Oklahoma. (Don’t ask, it was a stupid thing I did.) this write up is purely for educational purposes for the Jeep community.

Finally had a a chance to crack open the Automatic transmission oil pan. Uses a T40 bit to take out around a dozen screws. Tricky because of the exhaust runs perpendicular to the tranny pan. But easy to access the T40 bolts. I was prepared and had tons of cardboard on the floor with a few drain pans ready to catch oil as soon as I get the last few bolts. Released the front of the pan and let the mid section/rear rest on the exhaust pipe to let it drain. No need to pry the seal or anything. It will drop after bolts come loose and it will POUR out. (Be ready to get messy). In order to remove the pan, you have to play operation and finagle the pan around and out from under the Jeep but overall pretty easy. Just put aside to clean separately.

Like I mentioned this transmission was under water for 30mins or so. See photos.

I then proceeded to clean the transmission pan that I put aside. It was covered with a white vanilla icecream looking sludge with some brown and tan mixed in. Remember the ZF 8/9 Speed Transmission fluid for this vehicle is a translucent green somewhat high viscous consistency (thick and more syrup like).

I let the sludge drain out in a separate oil pan and wiped with a paper towel. The pan has the gasket/seal built in and looks to be reusable. I unbolted two (8mm bolts if the actual transmission filter and set aside. I used a gratuitous amount of brake cleaner to spray and wipe the entire pan.
min the filter I carefully sprayed brake cleaner around and in the filter but not against where the filter drains and filters material/fluid to not force anything back through. Gave it a good wipe down.

Back under the Jeep I saw some white sludge up and in above the transmission and carefully pointed the the needle of the brake cleaner tube up in around where the sludge was and did my best to no spray any of the electrical components. I sprayed a liberal amount of brake cleaner and stuffed paper towels to clean as much of the white sludge as possible. I figured this was a good time to grab lunch so I could let it dry out as much as possible.

Once I let it dry I dabbed as many drops as possible from the underside of the transmission. Carefully placed the drain pan back onto the tranny and bolted back together.

As far as replacing fluid it is a lengthy process. There is a separate video on YouTube about refilling and checking transmission fluid levels.

Overall this was a very interesting and lengthy task but it needed to be done.
I drove close to 10,000 miles after getting it up and running from 3months of sitting after the flood to completing this maintenance task. Prior to doing this my gears felt like they were slipping around 2500-3500 RPMs and only when the transmission temp was above 160 degrees Fahrenheit.

In the same day I drained my transfer case once again and sprayed a entire can of brake cleaner through the full hole and up the drain hole. Refilled with ATF+4 fluid (clear red fluid).

I also cracked open both differentials and drained and flushed and cleaned with cans upon cans of brake cleaner. Let dry and recovered and filled with 80W-90 Gear Oil.

Here’s a snap shot of all my supplies.

Definitely a learning experience and hope this write up helps someone out.

Cheers,

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