Manual trans + auto-stop/start + rock crawling = hmmm

[beachbumm78]

Kristy, your Jeep looks very cool! I wish I could see video of your incident! Scary thought!
Both of you... yeah, I might have stalled it. Although, the mere fact that the manual says that you have to be in neutral for autostop to engage... does not convince me that it didn't happen.
But thinking about this more... I am headed down a steep obstacle. So I don't want to press the gas at all. I also don't want to brake. Just want first gear to hold me and inch me down the fin. I guess, as long as I am not touching the clutch, it SHOULDN'T have stalled, right? That's the behavior I would want. So... maybe I was absent-mindedly dicking with the clutch, when I shouldn't have been?
I wish I could go back to that moment and see exactly what happened.
But I'm right about the above, yeah? That I should be able to just creep along, pointed steeply down, not touching the clutch, the gas, or the brake, and the vehicle is just inching its way down... I think I spent a good portion of the day doing exactly that.
Funny how it gets more complicated the more I think about it. Guess I just need to go for a drive.

Sounds like you do. Any excuse to drive. Thinking about it I’m kind of impressed you were going down, letting 1st take you down, and going slow enough it stalled you. When I do that I’m still using the brakes a bit to slow myself down as I feel my jeep turns into speedy Gonzales trying to race down every steep incline. Lol.

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[ColoradoMike]

Sounds like you do. Any excuse to drive. Thinking about it I’m kind of impressed you were going down, letting 1st take you down, and going slow enough it stalled you. When I do that I’m still using the brakes a bit to slow myself down as I feel my jeep turns into speedy Gonzales trying to race down every steep incline. Lol.

Yeah, in 4-lo with Offroad+ engaged, mine will practically stop itself with first gear, no brakes. You can see it at 6:14 in this movie if you're curious (no brake lights): Fins and Things

 

[beachbumm78]

Yeah, in 4-lo with Offroad+ engaged, mine will practically stop itself with first gear, no brakes. You can see it at 6:14 in this movie if you're curious (no brake lights): Fins and Things

What is this Off-road+ you are talking about?

 

[Some Random Guy]

Perhaps the best way to say it is that the delay causes me to stall. I put it in neutral and coast to an almost complete stop and my foot is off the clutch and the car shuts off but I'm still moving about 2 mph, when the light turns green, as soon as I press that clutch it restarts, while I'm getting to the bite point to go and clunk because my feet are moving faster than the engine got started up to go. No big deal. After a while I'll get use to automatically turning it off.

I've had something similar happen. Rolling into a stoplight in neutral and the engine cut as the light turned green. I was anticipating a quick shift into 2nd since I was still rolling, but got a stall instead because I didn't react to the engine cut quickly enough to let it establish RPM's before I started loading it.
Good news, it happened once and I was retrained very quickly to pause and confirm the engine is running whenever a light turns green. It only takes a tenth of a second or two. I've avoided a few more since then because I'm now paying attention for starter noises when I go to engage.

 

[ColoradoMike]

What is this Off-road+ you are talking about?

Button near the axle lockers on the dash. When on, it changes your gearing/vehicle behavior and other attributes depending on which 4wd mode you are in. In 4low in a rock crawling situation, it changes pedal calibration, shifted to de-gain.. etc.

 

[mgroeger]

Interesting thing happened on Fins and Things recently that I am thinking back to.

While I was initially nervous about having a manual when it came to stout 4wheeling when I bought my JLUR last summer, I quickly realized there's nothing to worry about: When you're in 4-lo, it's almost impossible to stall the thing, it seems. I love my manual, love it more when 4wheeling, and loved it on Fins and Things.

BUT, a weird thing happened. While going DOWN a really steep obstacle, the vehicle stalled (or did it?). Because I was pointed straight down, in a slightly precarious position, I didn't look around or think too much. With brake pedal and clutch both firmly on the floor, I just pressed the start button, the engine started, and I continued down.

At the bottom, I said to my buddy (who was driving an automatic Taco), "That was weird that it stalled right there." He said, "Yeah, I noticed that."

But, did it stall? It has seemed to me that it simply won't stall in 4-lo in first gear. I was pointed straight down, with neither the brake nor the clutch nor the gas engaged--just letting first gear/4-lo holder her back. Which I love.

And it shut off. And now I'm thinking that perhaps it was the auto-stop feature.

I hate that feature. Seems to me that auto-start/stop plus a manual transmission is just silly. Every time I get behind the wheel (almost every time), the first thing I do after starting the Jeep is to press the button to disable that feature.

But while running Fins, I often shut the vehicle off while scouting or spotting for my buddy. It's very possible that I jumped back in at one point, started up, and headed down the obstacle without having pressed the disable button.

It was only annoying this time, but I could imagine scenarios where it would be worse than annoying.

Anybody else run into this? I might have to google to see if there's a way to permanently disable this feature.

Trust me... it WILL stall in 4LO in 1st gear if you get on a hard enough obstacle. It's one of the reasons I parted ways with mine a few weeks ago and bought an auto. There really isn't anything on Fins or Hells for that matter that would stall it. Go take it over on Prichett and you will have a different experience... lol.

I LOVED the deep gearing of 1st gear, as it is a lower gear than the first gear of the autos. I simply grew tired of the herky jerky when running the trail in 4LO and more importantly of stalling on more and more difficult obstacles. IMO there is a tipping point where you start wheeling harder obstacles and that third pedal starts becoming a nuisance and liability.

In terms of stalling while pointing straight down it is possible. It all comes down to with the clutch out in any gear and not having enough forward momentum it will stall. So if you were in first pointed down with clutch out and were literally not moving it would make sense the Jeep stalled.

EDIT: I did not have offroad+ on my Jeep since it was a 2018 JL before that came out.

 

[ColoradoMike]

Trust me... it WILL stall in 4LO in 1st gear if you get on a hard enough obstacle. It's one of the reasons I parted ways with mine a few weeks ago and bought an auto. There really isn't anything on Fins or Hells for that matter that would stall it. Go take it over on Prichett and you will have a different experience... lol.

I LOVED the deep gearing of 1st gear, as it is a lower gear than the first gear of the autos. I simply grew tired of the herky jerky when running the trail in 4LO and more importantly of stalling on more and more difficult obstacles. IMO there is a tipping point where you start wheeling harder obstacles and that third pedal starts becoming a nuisance and liability.

In terms of stalling while pointing straight down it is possible. It all comes down to with the clutch out in any gear and not having enough forward momentum it will stall. So if you were in first pointed down with clutch out and were literally not moving it would make sense the Jeep stalled.

EDIT: I did not have offroad+ on my Jeep since it was a 2018 JL before that came out.

Right on. Yeah; I agree: I love how low 1st is on the manual in 4-low, and I think it's even somehow lower with Offroad+ engaged. But yes, I can see how on some obstacles, I can go almost straight down in 1st with no brake, no gas, no clutch, and it works, and in another instance where a little bump or something changes the momentum and RPMs just enough that it DOES stall. I just have to have foot hovering over the brake and ready to brake immediately in such a scenario.
Which then begs the question, why deal with that? And then you just go to the automatic as you did. But... for instance driving down Mt. Princeton from the south summit... first gear in the auto isn't going to hold you back well enough, but first in the manual will, and it's too long of a descent to just ride the brake the whole way. So in a case like that, I will be super stoked to have the manual.
I don't know if I will ever drive anything meaningfully harder than Fins or Hells... so I imagine loving and sticking with my manual forever. But, the argument for the automatic is strong and equally valid.

EDIT: Your profile pic is awesome as hell, and I probably am not going to mod my Jeep that far or run obstacles quite that steep!

 

[mgroeger]

Right on. Yeah; I agree: I love how low 1st is on the manual in 4-low, and I think it's even somehow lower with Offroad+ engaged. But yes, I can see how on some obstacles, I can go almost straight down in 1st with no brake, no gas, no clutch, and it works, and in another instance where a little bump or something changes the momentum and RPMs just enough that it DOES stall. I just have to have foot hovering over the brake and ready to brake immediately in such a scenario.
Which then begs the question, why deal with that? And then you just go to the automatic as you did. But... for instance driving down Mt. Princeton from the south summit... first gear in the auto isn't going to hold you back well enough, but first in the manual will, and it's too long of a descent to just ride the brake the whole way. So in a case like that, I will be super stoked to have the manual.
I don't know if I will ever drive anything meaningfully harder than Fins or Hells... so I imagine loving and sticking with my manual forever. But, the argument for the automatic is strong and equally valid.

EDIT: Your profile pic is awesome as hell, and I probably am not going to mod my Jeep that far or run obstacles quite that steep!

LOL, thanks. That's my old manual Jeep "Fat Ninja" and the obstacle is the Wall of Doom in Sand Hollow. Plenty of flops occur on that every year but if you nail the right line you can drive up it without chirping a tire. That was one of those obstacles where I felt the manual had an advantage and allowed me to crawl right up it. The low 1st gear with 4.88s in the axles on 37s and it was effortless. Can't wait to take the auto with 5.13s in the axles on 38s and see how it feels.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Sounds like you guys need the A.S.S. Plug

 

[mgroeger]

Sounds like you guys need the A.S.S. Plug

I used my Tazer to turn ESS off. I hate that "feature".

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