Manley confirms Nov 28-29 LA show reveal and talks hybrid / electric Wrangler

The Great Grape Ape

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Kinda opened with that, so not no one...

Most of the rest, like Hydraulic Steering, HEV , and even the Switchback has been covered, and yes door options are already available with the half-doors, so why not the donught doors?

That they are promoting HEV is a good sign and likely due to diesel's woes on a universal level (not limited to Ram).





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The Great Grape Ape

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I guess what I was trying to say is that I think there may be other hidden factors to the Wrangler's abysmal MPGs. Yes it has the aerodynamics of a brick, but that's just one factor, when the RAM has a bed that creates extra turbulence and is much heavier to boot.
Well first of all you're quoting the 8-speed, the 4WD 5.7 Hemi with only 1 extra gear is 13/19 MPG , so not as close as you make it seem without that extra 2 gears and better spread/ratios.

Now looking at the 4WD with the Pentastar and 3 extra gears reveals a 16/23 figure, that may show where the benefits are in having a bigger gear spread in the ZF-8.

However, of note is that the even lighter Wrangler JK doesn't gain Hwy MPG from that weight reduction sticking at 21, instead gains it from the city MPG bumping to 17, showing that it struggles more on the highway due to wind resistance which is a huge factor as you go faster and you need geometrically more power to add extra MPH and so wind resistance of the flat front and the drag of a vacuum inducing flat rear just kill the Wrangler on the highway.

I may just be dreaming, but I think FCA might be able to crack the 25 highway mpg mark this round.
Hwy MPG is unlikely to break 25 MPG when the much more aerodynamic GrandCherokee with the same V6 and same ZF8-GenII gets exactly that.

One of the issues is that regardless of gearing, you need X amount of HP in order to overcome rolling resistance and air resistance, so aerodynamics are huge at that point (more so that weight thanks to intertia).
I noticed this recently on my cross-Can trip in both Newfoundland and Sask where I was facing 60mph headwinds, and not only did fuel economy go from 19MPG to 14 (12.4L/100k to 16.8) , but I no longer could drive at 75MPH without the engine revs jumping from 2,250 to 3,400, because the vehicle needed the extra HP to overcome wind resistance (whereas before 2,500 rpm was enough to go 80+ and 3,050 closer to 85+ for passing without downshifting).
Gearing can't help that when you need a certain level of HP to overcome wind resistance and aero-drag. The major benefit is if the Wrangler isn't able to get into an efficient power band with the current transmission or gear ratios, but it's unlikely that even the NAG1 5-speed's 5th gear ratio of 0.83 is that much more inefficient than the ZF-8's 0.64/0.67 genII/genI that it would garner 4 MPG boost from that alone, especially since it's 7th gear is almost the same as the NAG1's 5th.

What might help a bit, but again likely less than an MPG, is a possible boost in Pentastar efficiency and power from the PSU/PUG that the GC already got last year.

The 4cylinder turbo and Ecodiesel likely also offer noticeable boosts, but likely not as much as hoped for as again they run into an HP shortage, and that will likely be seen more at the real world Highwya speeds of 65+MPH rather than the EPA's more generous figures in the 60 and under speeds.

I'm doubtful the Wrangler sees 25MPG from anything but the Ecodiesel, and even then it will likely be below expectations, closer to that 25MPG than to the GC's 30MPG (my guess is 27).
 
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DanW

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I don't worry about the marketing or corporate goings on. I'm perfectly happy to be patient, if they do it right, and it sounds like they are putting more effort into this Jeep than any in history. I'm ordering in late December, and am realistically expecting delivery somewhere between August and late September 2018, unless I find the perfect match on a dealer's lot.

With high demand and only one initial production line, mine could be a 2019 by the time it shows up. That's what happened with my JK. It was ordered in February of 07, and due to demand/delays with the manual transmission, it showed up in late September as a 2008.
 

DanW

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I can't remember if the price changed. I was just happy to pay sticker. Most dealers were demanding thousands over sticker. Auto transmissions were readily available, so the manual was the big hangup. I'm hoping they learned from it, but one production line with a slow transition away from the JK will back orders up a bit, I'm sure.
 

DarthMall

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I don't worry about the marketing or corporate goings on. I'm perfectly happy to be patient, if they do it right, and it sounds like they are putting more effort into this Jeep than any in history. I'm ordering in late December, and am realistically expecting delivery somewhere between August and late September 2018, unless I find the perfect match on a dealer's lot.

With high demand and only one initial production line, mine could be a 2019 by the time it shows up. That's what happened with my JK. It was ordered in February of 07, and due to demand/delays with the manual transmission, it showed up in late September as a 2008.
Let's just hope that doesn't happen again with the release of the JL. I sure as hell would be extremely bothered if my order placed before the JL was even put on sale ended up coming a year late. Has this happened to anybody else when they ordered their Jeeps? If ordering a Manual is going to mean having to wait an entire year, I may just end up paying the premium for the Automatic. :angry:
 

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IMO a jeep wrangler is a jeep wrangler.........if you're buying it for any other reason other than how effective it is off road you're buying the wrong vehicle..........buy a cherokee..........buy a BMW.........buy one of several "off road" trucks............it amazes me what people bitch about.........I started owning jeeps back in 1995....the TJ was so much better than the CJ........and the JK, WOW..........I just sold a built 2014 JKU.........totally amazed me how I could wheel some of the most difficult trails in MOAB, and then drive home in a luxury SUV, WHILE pulling a 2500 LB trailer that I lived in while wheeling...........if you want a Toyota go buy one!!!! Jeep Wrangle aint it!!!:rock:
This is a fine argument a decade and longer ago. However, we live in the future now where strides in technology can easily give us the best of both worlds.
 

jkrod

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This is a fine argument a decade and longer ago. However, we live in the future now where strides in technology can easily give us the best of both worlds.
to a point........some of the shit people complain about is faking ridiculous!!!:giggle::giggle:
 

Demonic

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Do we have any idea how the hybrid incorporation would affect the performance and capabilities? I'm assuming the hybrid would be paired with the turbo 4 engine, and it could be done in a way that the complete system offers more torque than the v6 when both are working together. But there's also the concern that the hybrid technology would be solely for fuel economy and offer no real performance increase over the turbo 4. Although I like the idea of a diesel rubicon JLU, the fact that I will need the car sooner than 2019 and also be using it as a daily is making the hybrid look like the more practical choice. I just don't want to be stuck with something that looks like a jeep but has the torque of a prius.
 

myfirstjeep

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Do we have any idea how the hybrid incorporation would affect the performance and capabilities? I'm assuming the hybrid would be paired with the turbo 4 engine, and it could be done in a way that the complete system offers more torque than the v6 when both are working together. But there's also the concern that the hybrid technology would be solely for fuel economy and offer no real performance increase over the turbo 4. Although I like the idea of a diesel rubicon JLU, the fact that I will need the car sooner than 2019 and also be using it as a daily is making the hybrid look like the more practical choice. I just don't want to be stuck with something that looks like a jeep but has the torque of a prius.
Something tells me that the hybrid JL will be aimed more at increasing the average MPG of the Wrangler line vs. increasing off road torque. I think the hybrid will have more torque than the base engine, but not as much as the diesel. Of course, there's no solid info out as of the time of this writing, so I'm just talking out of my ass.

Like you though, the hybrid and/or diesel model is what I am really looking most forward to. It will likely fit my lifestyle more since I am going to prioritize MPG in the Wrangler lineup.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Do we have any idea how the hybrid incorporation would affect the performance...
I'm assuming the hybrid would be paired with the turbo 4 engine, and it could be done in a way that the complete system offers more torque than the v6 when both are working together. But there's also the concern that the hybrid technology would be solely for fuel economy and offer no real performance increase over the turbo 4...
Even if the TinyWhinyTurbo4 has the typical mild tune of today's 2.0L turbos, and not the exotic 300/300 of Euro coupes, it'll likely already be more torquey (~270 lbft) than the current Pentastar (though possibly laggier) than current and likely lagier than the PSU/PUG.

The Hybrid at the very least will improve lag and smooth out power delivery, however I doubt they'll use the TinyWhinyTurbo4 as their basis for the HEV, because it's not particularly an efficient engine design, whereas a 1.6 or a diesel would likely be the candidate for fuel economy (still the main focus), and the battery boost would get it into the target power range.

Balance of HP for pushing a brick could be an issue though. As for performance, if it were a realistic focus we would've had a Hemi option years ago.
 

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