Low Voltage Issue on the 2.0L - Turbo Boost Lag

[Shannon]

It’s happened to me three times after stopping (engine off) for a brief walk above 12kft. Each time it was on a fairly good dirt road (<25 mph) or a 4w road (< 10 mph). (Boreas Pass and St John’s trail). Didn’t matter whether I was in 2H, 4H, or 4L. Low speed and high altitude seems to be the common issue for me. It hasn’t happened at lower altitudes. Nothing but shoulder shrugs from Jeep.

Sponsored

 

[N00B]

There hasn't been a post to this thread in a while.

I have a couple of adventures coming up and will be posting results of those experiences as I complete them.

Personally, I believe that the e-Torque system fails at a certain temperature. Because the 12V legacy system charges off of the e-Torque 48V system, ultimately the 12V system drains to the point of failure.

Here is how I think about it:

The e-Torque is designed to provide a small but effective "torque boost" at "low RPMs". This works incredibly efficiently in my day to day driving around town. This does NOT work well on the trail because you spend most of your time in that range. Especially if you're in 4LO.

The constant use of the e-Torque system in 4LO generates a high demand load, in turn generating a significant amount of heat. That is why the e-Torque system includes a liquid cooling function. Once the e-Torque system reaches a threshold it shuts itself off. This in turn disables the 48V to 12V charging system.

The absence of a charging system for the 12V legacy system causes the 12V battery to drain and all electronics eventually fail. The electronics on the Wrangler lacks a graceful shut down procedure.

When the e-Torque system cools to a threshold minus "n" condition, the vehicle can be driven again. If you're on a trail, and utilizing the e-Torque to maneuver over obstacles, you can repeat this experience multiple times in a single day.

Personally, I'm pretty torqued at Stellantis/Chrysler for this scenario and their lack of accepting responsibility for it. I'd like to see them held accountable.

 

[N00B]

Okay, so I'm thinking this might be applicable:

Finally, the implied warranty of fitness requires that a vehicle be appropriate for its understood or promised use even if it's not defective. For example, if the car brand or dealership tells you that you can drive it over dirt roads, but it turns out that the car breaks down the moment the pavement ends, you can sue.

 

[Zandcwhite]

There hasn't been a post to this thread in a while.

I have a couple of adventures coming up and will be posting results of those experiences as I complete them.

Personally, I believe that the e-Torque system fails at a certain temperature. Because the 12V legacy system charges off of the e-Torque 48V system, ultimately the 12V system drains to the point of failure.

Here is how I think about it:

The e-Torque is designed to provide a small but effective "torque boost" at "low RPMs". This works incredibly efficiently in my day to day driving around town. This does NOT work well on the trail because you spend most of your time in that range. Especially if you're in 4LO.

The constant use of the e-Torque system in 4LO generates a high demand load, in turn generating a significant amount of heat. That is why the e-Torque system includes a liquid cooling function. Once the e-Torque system reaches a threshold it shuts itself off. This in turn disables the 48V to 12V charging system.

The absence of a charging system for the 12V legacy system causes the 12V battery to drain and all electronics eventually fail. The electronics on the Wrangler lacks a graceful shut down procedure.

When the e-Torque system cools to a threshold minus "n" condition, the vehicle can be driven again. If you're on a trail, and utilizing the e-Torque to maneuver over obstacles, you can repeat this experience multiple times in a single day.

Personally, I'm pretty torqued at Stellantis/Chrysler for this scenario and their lack of accepting responsibility for it. I'd like to see them held accountable.

I believe the etorque take off assist is disabled in 4lo. Obviously the charging system is still active. Being that adding a tune that disabled torque limiting in 4lo entirely cured the charging issue at all altitudes and temperatures for thousands of trail miles I'm still 100% certain at least on our 2019 it was 100% a software issue. No hard parts were replaced, no cooling system upgrades, etc and with just a tune it went from every time we crawled in 4Lo for more than 30 minutes to never.

 

[N00B]

@Zandcwhite -- which tuner did you go with again?

 

[Zandcwhite]

@Zandcwhite -- which tuner did you go with again?

Superchips td3

 

[Chance_P]

Superchips tune cured my low voltage while spending lots of time in 4L. I would regularly get down to low 11v after a few hours and now it stays in the high 12 low 13s

 

[N00B]

You have the e-Torque 2.0 too?

 

[Chance_P]

You have the e-Torque 2.0 too?

Yes

 

[mwilk012]

There hasn't been a post to this thread in a while.

I have a couple of adventures coming up and will be posting results of those experiences as I complete them.

Personally, I believe that the e-Torque system fails at a certain temperature. Because the 12V legacy system charges off of the e-Torque 48V system, ultimately the 12V system drains to the point of failure.

Here is how I think about it:

The e-Torque is designed to provide a small but effective "torque boost" at "low RPMs". This works incredibly efficiently in my day to day driving around town. This does NOT work well on the trail because you spend most of your time in that range. Especially if you're in 4LO.

The constant use of the e-Torque system in 4LO generates a high demand load, in turn generating a significant amount of heat. That is why the e-Torque system includes a liquid cooling function. Once the e-Torque system reaches a threshold it shuts itself off. This in turn disables the 48V to 12V charging system.

The absence of a charging system for the 12V legacy system causes the 12V battery to drain and all electronics eventually fail. The electronics on the Wrangler lacks a graceful shut down procedure.

When the e-Torque system cools to a threshold minus "n" condition, the vehicle can be driven again. If you're on a trail, and utilizing the e-Torque to maneuver over obstacles, you can repeat this experience multiple times in a single day.

Personally, I'm pretty torqued at Stellantis/Chrysler for this scenario and their lack of accepting responsibility for it. I'd like to see them held accountable.

“Once the e-Torque system reaches a threshold it shuts itself off. This in turn disables the 48V to 12V charging system.”

This part is not accurate. The actual torque assist function and the 48v/12v converter are unrelated other than the fact they share a power source. This was a software problem that they claim has been fixed.

 

[N00B]

“Once the e-Torque system reaches a threshold it shuts itself off. This in turn disables the 48V to 12V charging system.”

This part is not accurate. The actual torque assist function and the 48v/12v converter are unrelated other than the fact they share a power source. This was a software problem that they claim has been fixed.

Curious if you know which software update is supposed to fix it?

My understanding is that the 48V system provides the charging for the 12V system. It is mentioned in this YouTube -- approximately the 5 minute mark.



@mwilk012 -- do you have some additional resources that you could point me towards?

Thanks in advance.

 

[mwilk012]

Curious if you know which software update is supposed to fix it?

My understanding is that the 48V system provides the charging for the 12V system. It is mentioned in this YouTube -- approximately the 5 minute mark.



@mwilk012 -- do you have some additional resources that you could point me towards?

Thanks in advance.

 

[N00B]

I hope you don't mind a few more questions. Seems you have access to more information than I've been able to locate.

The first page of this specifically calls out the 3.6 motor -- I did't find a specific call out saying that it is applicable to the 2.0 motor. Is it applicable to both? Hope you don't mind me asking, buy how do you know?

On page 5 of the document you attached, it describes the PPU sub system BPCM is responsible for the conversion from 48V to 12V -- to charge the legacy electronics.

So, I have a couple of additional questions -- you mentioned "that's not how it works". I'm not sure what it is that you are specifically calling out that way -- the charging system, the mild hybrid functions, or something else?

You had mentioned that there is supposed to be a software fix -- how can I find out if my Jeep has received the update?

And lastly, maybe you have some insight into what is happening in the Jeep -- why is the 12V system failing so spectacularly on the trail for people like me? If you have some additional things that we should be checking or documenting -- please share.

I'm eagerly looking for solutions -- and so are other folks -- but we don't seem to be getting much traction on either the cause of the problem or the solution.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[mwilk012]

I hope you don't mind a few more questions. Seems you have access to more information than I've been able to locate.

The first page of this specifically calls out the 3.6 motor -- I did't find a specific call out saying that it is applicable to the 2.0 motor. Is it applicable to both? Hope you don't mind me asking, buy how do you know?

On page 5 of the document you attached, it describes the PPU sub system BPCM is responsible for the conversion from 48V to 12V -- to charge the legacy electronics.

So, I have a couple of additional questions -- you mentioned "that's not how it works". I'm not sure what it is that you are specifically calling out that way -- the charging system, the mild hybrid functions, or something else?

You had mentioned that there is supposed to be a software fix -- how can I find out if my Jeep has received the update?

And lastly, maybe you have some insight into what is happening in the Jeep -- why is the 12V system failing so spectacularly on the trail for people like me? If you have some additional things that we should be checking or documenting -- please share.

I'm eagerly looking for solutions -- and so are other folks -- but we don't seem to be getting much traction on either the cause of the problem or the solution.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I pulled up a 3.6 2020 model just out of convenience, I just happened to be at the shop for a few minutes yesterday. The Etorque system on the 2.0, 3.6, and 5.7 function exactly the same.

I don’t know offhand the exact software level number but if you update you get the newest one regardless.

I don’t have access to the source code or anything, but the problem that people had been experiencing was the 48V battery getting depleted to the point of not being capable of charging the 12v system. It was prioritizing loads improperly.

It’s not a temperature problem, by any indications.

 

[N00B]

I pulled up a 3.6 2020 model just out of convenience, I just happened to be at the shop for a few minutes yesterday. The Etorque system on the 2.0, 3.6, and 5.7 function exactly the same.

I don’t know offhand the exact software level number but if you update you get the newest one regardless.

I don’t have access to the source code or anything, but the problem that people had been experiencing was the 48V battery getting depleted to the point of not being capable of charging the 12v system. It was prioritizing loads improperly.

It’s not a temperature problem, by any indications.

Thanks for the details.

I can't find specifics about the changes (things that are supposed to be fixed) in the last updates that have been applied to my JLUR. Last update was in October 2022.

I'm attaching a description from the local dealership who applied some updates about one year ago.

Could you tell me a couple of things:

If these updates are still the latest or not --

If these updates should have corrected the problems --

Thanks man! You've been a big help!

Sponsored