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Love ESS but hate the battery location? 2 new options from Genesis Offroad!

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Genesis Offroad

Genesis Offroad

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I would love to hear those reasons? On the off chance there is something I'm missing or overlooking.

Thanks for the kind words.

I was half asleep on the couch when I posted that last night, so I'll elaborate on why I say it's not suitable, and don't waste your money.

First, that device is only rated to carry 140 amps, or as the spec sheet says, 1.4E+2 Amps. :facepalm: In all my years of working on this stuff, I've never seen a device like this spec'd out in scientific notation, but ok. That rating refers to the maximum amount of current it can handle constantly flowing through it. Ideally, you want to pick an isolator device that is rated at least as high as your alternator's output, but preferably a bit higher.

The JL comes with 2 alternator options - the standard one is 180 amps, and the heavy duty option is rated at 240 amps. That rating is the maximum current the alternator can put out under perfect conditions, and most of the time, it won't be blasting out that much, but it can.

The other factor is how much current your accessories draw. One good use for an isolator based system like our Gen 3 Power Hub is for winching. If you are stuck in the mud and have a really hard winch pull, your winch can draw well over 400 amps, which is a tremendous amount of current in a 12v system. The alternator will increase it's output to help with the demand, but the excess power needs will come out of the battery. This means while you are winching, that isolator could see over 400 amps flowing through it, for short durations. That little device is not designed to handle that much current, and I would not expect it to last long at all. Even normal daily driving, a max rating of 140 amps is considered light duty in an automotive application like ours.

The isolator we use is rated for 300 amps continuous, 400 amps for 5 minutes, and 2500 amps for 10 seconds.

Next, the wire size is too small. Again, the spec sheet oddly lists the length, and a rating of 110 amps, instead of a wire gauge size. Never seen that before. If they use appropriate sized wire to handle 110 amps, it should be at least 4 gauge. I have 4ga wire here that we used for our Polaris RZR kits that was rated to handle 85 amps. Just based on the picture, I'm going to guess that is 6ga wire, but I can't tell for sure, which is another red flag. Regardless, 4ga wire is not suitable to run from your cranking battery to under your back seat with a 180 or 240 amp alternator. It might work, but again with a hard winch pull, you are running a risk of that wire getting hot, and there is a very realistic possibility of it causing a fire.

Also the pictures in the link show that it comes with 2 fuse holders, but no fuses. What kind of fuses did you plan to get to go along with it?

Our kit uses 2ga heavy duty welding cable which has an extra thick jacket to protect it from abrasion and accidental damage, with a 600 amp ZCase fuse - that's high enough to not blow from using a winch or stereo equipment, but will blow if the cable is accidentally shorted out to the frame or something catastrophic, so you don't burn your Jeep down.

Next, I can tell from the pictures that the lugs they are using are not sealed. The bare copper wire is visible sticking out the end of the barrel. This is going to allow water or humidity to contact the bare copper, causing corrosion, and eventually leading to degraded current carrying capacity. Same thing on that little wire labeled Earth Point, that's a cheap nylon terminal and your ground wire is exposed.

Our lugs are sealed on the ends, and we use an extra thick heavy duty heat shrink to cover where the wire enters the lug so the wire doesn't corrode.

Next on the list is the Cut In and Cut Out voltage. That one will connect the batteries together at 13.3v, and disconnect at 12.8v. Your Wrangler has a 'smart alternator' which means it will vary the output voltage based on what it thinks the battery needs. When your alternator sees the battery is full, it will turn down the output by allowing the pulley wheel to free spool, saving a couple horsepower from the drivebelt. This means the alternator can drop the voltage down to 12.5v or even lower. When it does, that isolator will see the voltage drop and separate the batteries even while you are driving, so your second battery will not get charged while you are driving.

That's why we recommend the Engine On Sensor cable for our JL & JT customers. This cable tells our isolator when the engine is running, and the isolator will not separate the batteries while you are driving regardless of the voltage.

Another observation of your original plan, you mentioned putting a battery into a Pelican-style case so that it's waterproof. Question 1 - why do you need the battery to be waterproof? Question 2 - how do you get the battery cables inside the case and keep it waterproof? Question 3 - how would you secure that case in place so it's not being thrown around while driving?

You could just use our Adjustable Battery Brackets and our mounting base brackets to bolt it securely to the floor under the seat as shown on this page - https://www.genesisoffroad.com/collections/diesel-jl

There's no reason why the battery needs to be waterproofed. If you drive through a river, the battery would be dry but your interior will be flooded, so i don't understand that logic.

I hope all this helps you see that just because an option is less expensive, doesn't mean it's a good deal. I really believe you'd be better off doing nothing than wasting $115 (plus don't forget the fuses, plus your time).

One of our customers told me a great saying that I loved - Poor people can't afford cheap parts. I love that saying, it means just because you don't have a lot of money, doesn't mean you should waste money doing things the wrong way and have to do it over again, or cause more problems down the road.

Hope this helps.
-Shane
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Thanks for the kind words.

I was half asleep on the couch when I posted that last night, so I'll elaborate on why I say it's not suitable, and don't waste your money.

First, that device is only rated to carry 140 amps, or as the spec sheet says, 1.4E+2 Amps. :facepalm: In all my years of working on this stuff, I've never seen a device like this spec'd out in scientific notation, but ok. That rating refers to the maximum amount of current it can handle constantly flowing through it. Ideally, you want to pick an isolator device that is rated at least as high as your alternator's output, but preferably a bit higher.

The JL comes with 2 alternator options - the standard one is 180 amps, and the heavy duty option is rated at 240 amps. That rating is the maximum current the alternator can put out under perfect conditions, and most of the time, it won't be blasting out that much, but it can.

The other factor is how much current your accessories draw. One good use for an isolator based system like our Gen 3 Power Hub is for winching. If you are stuck in the mud and have a really hard winch pull, your winch can draw well over 400 amps, which is a tremendous amount of current in a 12v system. The alternator will increase it's output to help with the demand, but the excess power needs will come out of the battery. This means while you are winching, that isolator could see over 400 amps flowing through it, for short durations. That little device is not designed to handle that much current, and I would not expect it to last long at all. Even normal daily driving, a max rating of 140 amps is considered light duty in an automotive application like ours.

The isolator we use is rated for 300 amps continuous, 400 amps for 5 minutes, and 2500 amps for 10 seconds.

Next, the wire size is too small. Again, the spec sheet oddly lists the length, and a rating of 110 amps, instead of a wire gauge size. Never seen that before. If they use appropriate sized wire to handle 110 amps, it should be at least 4 gauge. I have 4ga wire here that we used for our Polaris RZR kits that was rated to handle 85 amps. Just based on the picture, I'm going to guess that is 6ga wire, but I can't tell for sure, which is another red flag. Regardless, 4ga wire is not suitable to run from your cranking battery to under your back seat with a 180 or 240 amp alternator. It might work, but again with a hard winch pull, you are running a risk of that wire getting hot, and there is a very realistic possibility of it causing a fire.

Also the pictures in the link show that it comes with 2 fuse holders, but no fuses. What kind of fuses did you plan to get to go along with it?

Our kit uses 2ga heavy duty welding cable which has an extra thick jacket to protect it from abrasion and accidental damage, with a 600 amp ZCase fuse - that's high enough to not blow from using a winch or stereo equipment, but will blow if the cable is accidentally shorted out to the frame or something catastrophic, so you don't burn your Jeep down.

Next, I can tell from the pictures that the lugs they are using are not sealed. The bare copper wire is visible sticking out the end of the barrel. This is going to allow water or humidity to contact the bare copper, causing corrosion, and eventually leading to degraded current carrying capacity. Same thing on that little wire labeled Earth Point, that's a cheap nylon terminal and your ground wire is exposed.

Our lugs are sealed on the ends, and we use an extra thick heavy duty heat shrink to cover where the wire enters the lug so the wire doesn't corrode.

Next on the list is the Cut In and Cut Out voltage. That one will connect the batteries together at 13.3v, and disconnect at 12.8v. Your Wrangler has a 'smart alternator' which means it will vary the output voltage based on what it thinks the battery needs. When your alternator sees the battery is full, it will turn down the output by allowing the pulley wheel to free spool, saving a couple horsepower from the drivebelt. This means the alternator can drop the voltage down to 12.5v or even lower. When it does, that isolator will see the voltage drop and separate the batteries even while you are driving, so your second battery will not get charged while you are driving.

That's why we recommend the Engine On Sensor cable for our JL & JT customers. This cable tells our isolator when the engine is running, and the isolator will not separate the batteries while you are driving regardless of the voltage.

Another observation of your original plan, you mentioned putting a battery into a Pelican-style case so that it's waterproof. Question 1 - why do you need the battery to be waterproof? Question 2 - how do you get the battery cables inside the case and keep it waterproof? Question 3 - how would you secure that case in place so it's not being thrown around while driving?

You could just use our Adjustable Battery Brackets and our mounting base brackets to bolt it securely to the floor under the seat as shown on this page - https://www.genesisoffroad.com/collections/diesel-jl

There's no reason why the battery needs to be waterproofed. If you drive through a river, the battery would be dry but your interior will be flooded, so i don't understand that logic.

I hope all this helps you see that just because an option is less expensive, doesn't mean it's a good deal. I really believe you'd be better off doing nothing than wasting $115 (plus don't forget the fuses, plus your time).

One of our customers told me a great saying that I loved - Poor people can't afford cheap parts. I love that saying, it means just because you don't have a lot of money, doesn't mean you should waste money doing things the wrong way and have to do it over again, or cause more problems down the road.

Hope this helps.
-Shane
Well it looks like I'm going to be returning that Vevor product now. :LOL: :facepalm:

I really appreciate that info.

My knowledge of electrical stuff is kind of just starting out. I've only recently gotten good at wiring and I'm still learning a lot.

I recently blew a on/off switch for my winch because the rating on the switch wasn't high enough amperage for what the winch needs. So I've been having to learn a little bit about some of that sort of stuff. So you're talking about the capabilities of things like that which I do plan on using, is actually really important and definitely hits home.

My back seat set up is a little bit different...

Jeep Wrangler JL Love ESS but hate the battery location? 2 new options from Genesis Offroad! 1000007954


Eventually I'm going to put a cargo dog storage container in the back footwell area, but that's another expensive product that I can't afford right now. However whenever I do put that back there, that's what I'll be putting the spare battery in.

Sounds like you guys have a much higher quality product than it comes off as on your website. Might I recommend listing your data sheet on there? I poked around your website for a while way back when and couldn't find any of this information on there. Like actual numbers that is. It tells me it's good for stuff, but it doesn't provide numbers which would allow me to compare it to other products like the Vevor system. Listing an actual spec sheet might help people choose your product over other products on the market.

Again appreciate the info. I guess you guys' product is going back on the list. Let me know if you ever have a 50% sale! :CWL:;)❤
 
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Genesis Offroad

Genesis Offroad

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Well it looks like I'm going to be returning that Vevor product now. :LOL: :facepalm:

I really appreciate that info.

My knowledge of electrical stuff is kind of just starting out. I've only recently gotten good at wiring and I'm still learning a lot.

I recently blew a on/off switch for my winch because the rating on the switch wasn't high enough amperage for what the winch needs. So I've been having to learn a little bit about some of that sort of stuff. So you're talking about the capabilities of things like that which I do plan on using, is actually really important and definitely hits home.

Again appreciate the info. I guess you guys' product is going back on the list. Let me know if you ever have a 50% sale! :CWL:;)❤
:rock: I'm very happy to be able to help. :fist bump:
 

Heimkehr

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I think Heimkehr was thinking you were asking about our full Gen 3 dual battery system - that one requires 2 Group 25 batteries. The Relocation kit uses any Group 94R plus the little Aux 14 battery.
I understood the question, Shane. :) KimFN24 very plainly asked if there was room for two H7 AGM batteries under the hood of our Wranglers. I replied in the negative, clarifying that when two full-size batteries are evident, they are by necessity the observably smaller Group 25s.
 
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Genesis Offroad

Genesis Offroad

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I understood the question, Shane. :) KimFN24 very plainly asked if there was room for two H7 AGM batteries under the hood of our Wranglers. I replied in the negative, clarifying that when two full-size batteries are evident, they are by necessity the observably smaller Group 25s.
My bad, I missed the 'two' part.
 

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KimFN24

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No. Not even close. H7 is the alternate stock battery size, included with those vehicles that have the optional tow package.

I recently installed an Interstate H7 (94R) AGM in my Jeep, and it fills the stock battery tray. When you see two equally sized batteries adjacent to each other in the Genesis photos, they are the significantly smaller Group 25s.
Thank you. I will look into the H7 Interstate and ALT battery. If I get a winch it seems I should keep the ALT battery.
 

KimFN24

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I understood the question, Shane. :) KimFN24 very plainly asked if there was room for two H7 AGM batteries under the hood of our Wranglers. I replied in the negative, clarifying that when two full-size batteries are evident, they are by necessity the observably smaller Group 25s.
You are correct. Thanks again.
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