Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[BRuby]

Well, I had an interesting turn of events today.

I found out that I won in arbitration! I did *not* expect that at all. The arbitrator awarded a replacement Jeep or complete buyback. I am absolutely shocked.....

I will admit that it feels great to be validated in this steering drama. Take that, FCA

Awesome! Have not followed this thread much but great to see. If you can - try to make sure you have a clause that allows you to test drive beforehand to your satisfaction. At least then you have something acceptable to start off with.

Good luck with it and happy Jeeping!! So far - touch wood - ours is just about “perfect” in every way. We love our Jeep. So there is that. Good copies do exist.

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[Shawn19]

"Drives as designed" it's unconscionable that Jeep is able to use this phrase to escape responsibility for the steering issues.

How did they increase the caster? They must have put the lift LCAs on?

No mention of the LCAs, mine is stock, not sure what they did to adjust the caster. But the email mentions it driving on larger snow/mud tires. I have the non aggressive stock tires..smh. They are bigger than the tires on a civic, but come on.

I can still wobble the wheel back and forth like @BrandonB00 Had in their video. But they say it is as designed. Is it?

Just getting tired of the back and forth.

BTW @RagTopDeluxe congrats on the win, honestly makes me feel better to know someone is paying attention.

Did the arbitrator ride with you? Did FCA offer arbitration as an option or was it through Lemon Law?

 

[Dvol]

I want another Punk’n Rubi. I’m wondering if a four-door would handle better. I’m so tired of this steering issue and don’t want to deal with it anymore or ever again.

A lot to think about for sure.

Edit to add...one thing that concerns me is that new JLs are being delivered with these issues. Still. I’m so over FCA and all the crap they gave me while dealing with the steering.

Congrats Julie im so happy that this is one less thing you have to worry about. So let me ask " Driving as Designed" means what to you now? Lol..Guess this means they know there are small amount of us with these issues and they have 0 clue how to fix it. Cause as a Technician i don't just change parts and hope it works. I diagnose the problem and fix it. Parts changing gets real expensive fast and it takes very little trouble shooting skills.
I truly hope a solution is found for the small numbers that have on going issues. Im very confident if there weren't issues we wouldn't have all these TSB's or aftermarket companies with all these wonderful expensive upgrades, and buybacks.. February 11th can't can't come soon enough. Julie this gives me a lot of hope now again Congrats on not only getting it replaced but being Vindicated and stress relieved.

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

Tbh, I'm surprised you're getting another one. Seems like some of the new ones still have the issue.

By far fca has the worst customer service I have ever had. Buying a Jeep was a giant pain in the first place, then the service department is another story. FCA needs to seriously fix their customer service.

Good luck, let us know what you end up getting!

I'll admit that there's a part of me that is questioning what to get. It would be a no-brainer if the new 2020s being delivered had updated parts and were driving well. But some aren't and FCA is still FCA (not a compliment ).

ill take the psc. You can have my AD steering box

If you were closer! Seriously, I'd be happy to take them to the shop and have the shop swap parts. It wouldn't be trivial, but I don't have many miles on the kit.

Awesome! Have not followed this thread much but great to see. If you can - try to make sure you have a clause that allows you to test drive beforehand to your satisfaction. At least then you have something acceptable to start off with.

Good luck with it and happy Jeeping!! So far - touch wood - ours is just about “perfect” in every way. We love our Jeep. So there is that. Good copies do exist.

If I do get another Jeep, that will absolutely be a condition or it's "give me my money!" I won't go through this again. FCA has been horrible to deal with, as we all know.

No mention of the LCAs, mine is stock, not sure what they did to adjust the caster. But the email mentions it driving on larger snow/mud tires. I have the non aggressive stock tires..smh. They are bigger than the tires on a civic, but come on.

I can still wobble the wheel back and forth like @BrandonB00 Had in their video. But they say it is as designed. Is it?

Just getting tired of the back and forth.

BTW @RagTopDeluxe congrats on the win, honestly makes me feel better to know someone is paying attention.

Did the arbitrator ride with you? Did FCA offer arbitration as an option or was it through Lemon Law?

Dealers . Definitely NOT as designed and I call shenanigans on adjusting the caster. You need longer or adjustable LCAs to do that.

The arbitrator did ride with me and in his decision mentioned that he saw me constantly correcting with a total of four inches of back and forth.

I also had a lot of documentation, including seven pages of notes of every dealer interaction, phone call, etc. I also had 13 pages of emails with FCA customer service. Thankfully, those emails proved that FCA made a fifth appointment for me and that the dealer sent me home because they had no idea how to fix my Jeep. The emails also confirmed that I did *not* have to take it back to stock by removing the SS track bar and Falcon stabilizer.

I also had it in the emails that the FCA rep said I met the Lemon Law requirements and offered to transfer me to that department. That "special handling" department was nothing special and just sent me a link to the arbitration.

Another important piece of evidence I had was a voice mail from a local service manager stating that FCA is working on a fix, but don't have one, and he didn't know how he could help me.

And for fun, I included all the NHTSA complaints for wandering 2019s.

Congrats Julie im so happy that this is one less thing you have to worry about. So let me ask " Driving as Designed" means what to you now? Lol..Guess this means they know there are small amount of us with these issues and they have 0 clue how to fix it. Cause as a Technician i don't just change parts and hope it works. I diagnose the problem and fix it. Parts changing gets real expensive fast and it takes very little trouble shooting skills.

I truly hope a solution is found for the small numbers that have on going issues. Im very confident if there weren't issues we wouldn't have all these TSB's or aftermarket companies with all these wonderful expensive upgrades, and buybacks.. February 11th can't can't come soon enough. Julie this gives me a lot of hope now again Congrats on not only getting it replaced but being Vindicated and stress relieved.

"Drives as designed" is their get out of jail free card and they should not be able to get away with that. These issues must be addressed and people helped. It's NOT a Jeep thing.

I came prepared :

And if you are all curious as to FCA's response to my claim, get this (yes, they do say that I can get from "point A to point B" so there's no problem):

I'll leave this up for a bit, here's the PDF I created of the 2019 wandering complaints: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldq3tqr1coib2mk/NHTSA Complaints.pdf?dl=0

 

[Shawn19]

Outstanding! Bet they are wishing they would have just done the right thing in the first place, then they could have put an NDA on what’s happened.

Props for staying loyal, this will be completely validated when (hopefully) you get a properly performing JL.

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

Outstanding! Bet they are wishing they would have just done the right thing in the first place, then they could have put an NDA on what’s happened.

Props for staying loyal, this will be completely validated when (hopefully) you get a properly performing JL.

No NDA (yet). I’m glad I have some time to respond because I am all over the place in deciding what to do. It is good to have the validation that this is *not a Jeep thing* for sure.

 

[VWE]

“...without issue.” That’s very obtuse. Of course there is an issue, I doubt you are doing this for fun.

 

[Bearded_Dragon]

@RagTopDeluxe glad to hear you're getting the issue resolved! At least now you know what to look for when you test drive the next Wrangler and can tell them to F off if it doesn't steer correctly. Are you going to use the same dealership?

Also if you want to sell any steering parts (PSC, Falcon stabilizer, etc.) send me a PM.

 

[jmcdtucson]

To your point, I am done with the BS from the dealers. So I am doing the slow crawl repair. I really like working on the Jeep so I am doing the parts replacement, based on when I can afford the time and money.
So far:
Quality alignment
Loosened LCAs, settled Jeep and retightened
Check all the torques
Messed with the tire air pressure, (now 32)
Falcon steering stabilizer
JKS adjustable track bar.

I have made some improvement but not enough. Next will be:
Synergy tie rod kit with drag link
Adjust lash on steering box

I have the double whammy, wanders left and right and has way too much play in the steering.

You might want to add longer LCAs to the list to increase caster up to 6 or 7.

 

[smithrd65]

First off there is no perfect vehicle. But it seems as if one person co plains and everyone has the same complain
Just like the ESS system.

 

[Brandon3333]

RagTopDeluxe - if you are able to do the transaction anywhere, go to Roseville. They have been great with me. I am in the same boat...when mine arrives I am test driving and if it isn't driving near perfect...off I go and will get my money back and buy a Ford Raptor or something.

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

RagTopDeluxe - if you are able to do the transaction anywhere, go to Roseville. They have been great with me. I am in the same boat...when mine arrives I am test driving and if it isn't driving near perfect...off I go and will get my money back and buy a Ford Raptor or something.

Good advice, thanks. I want to test drive some 4 doors to see how they are. I drove a Macan today and loved it for a driver, but the doors don’t come off . I hear the Raptors are very fun and nice.

I have to challenges in selecting my next vehicle...hubby drives a roadster, so I need something to take the dog to the beach and mountains, and it has to work for my bionic knee and repaired shoulder (the reason I had to give up my Miata). The JL fits those criteria well (other than the whole steering-sucks-so-I-can’t-drive-it-to-the-beach thing ), but I’m really second-guessing staying with FCA any longer. And we’ve had five Jeeps and seven Mopars.

 

[MTN1]

I’ve been following this topic since long before I ordered my 2020 JLUR.

Here’s an experiment. I just videoed my wife driving our Wrangler at ~82mph on I-70 just west of the Colorado/Kansas border:



The highway here has lots of patches and is in generally poor shape, but it’s dead straight and there little to no crown as best I can tell.

For those of you who do and do not have the “steering issue”, how does your experience differ from the posted video?

I wish my no drive like that!!

 

[MTN1]

Sorry I wish my jl drive like that, I'm fighting all the time, sucks.

 

[df007]

Hey everyone. So continuing on with my post a while back about digging into @Goin2drt 's original gearbox:
Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

I got what I needed to remove the pitman arm and disassemble the box further.

In my previous post I concluded that some slop was in the ball screw interface, and that all the slop was NOT coming from the sector gear interface (this is the interface the external adjuster can influence). I wanted to try and understand the ball screw slop a bit better.

So what I found are 2 MORE places for slop:
1. The sector ball nut to worm gear.
2. The steering column coupling to worm gear. (All the junk you can't see in the housing between the steering column connection and the worm gear)

I had no good way to hold the parts to try and understand #1 above. I'll see if I can figure something out soon.....

BUT much to my surprise the most interesting thing was the worm gear to steering column connection. There was play here and quite a bit of compliance. This compliance is how these gearboxes route the pressure from the pump based on torque input. Torque flexes the joint and this motion effectively operates a valve. Google how power steering gearboxes work for more info. This makes me believe the electric pump on the JL is pretty "dumb" and just provides a fixed level of assist that can be brought up or down by the dealer programming, but not variable with feedback from the gearbox. The gearbox itself seems to be what dictates the assist level relative to torque, just like previous Jeeps.

The stiffness of the joint seemed pretty low. I'm no expert on what is normal here, just my opinion on how easily I flexed it by hand. This explains why the steering feels a bit rubbery and would be more so with tires that have big contact patches.

Here is a video where I clamped the worm gear and moved the steering column connection to illustrate what I'm describing:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Agcs3lS0ztEjhWoCq715kKixu9ie?e=GoWfjj
Image:

I'll do a temp study on the play in this assembly next, then get some more tools to take the above assembly apart; need a pin spanner.

I feel so bad for all that have the wander issue. My Jeep tracks really well, just has gearbox slop (which of course causes chasing/wander), but I can tell the Jeep itself is not trying to wander around.

I haven't attempted any fixes on my Jeep as I'm barely able to deal with in and hoping at some point there is a gearbox update that IS a known fix.

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