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Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

df007

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I've been keeping a close eye on this thread, and while i'm not a JL owner currently it's something I would love to trade my JK in for, however these issues have me weary. My theory is that there are two issues at play here, each with different causes. Some owners likely have one of the two issues, while others have both. This is making it more difficult for both owners and dealerships to diagnose.

My theory is as follows

Steering wheel play/loose steering

*Steering gear box out of spec
*Loose suspension components
*Poor QC on suspension parts


Wandering
* Caster - mounting brackets for LCAs out of spec on either the frame or axle end causing caster to be out of spec from factory
* Bad track bar bushings
* For those lucky enough with both issues, the play in steering gear box exaggerates wandering issue

I've read some instances where the Jeep wanders, but the steering wheel feels tight. Others have loose steering but no wander. Some have both, which is the nightmare scenario.

I'm not sure if this helps anyone, but I think it is helpful to consider these issues exclusive to each other and that some drivers simply have both issues.
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VegasJeepJL

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I've been keeping a close eye on this thread, and while i'm not a JL owner currently it's something I would love to trade my JK in for, however these issues have me weary. My theory is that there are two issues at play here, each with different causes. Some owners likely have one of the two issues, while others have both. This is making it more difficult for both owners and dealerships to diagnose.

My theory is as follows

Steering wheel play/loose steering

*Steering gear box out of spec
*Loose suspension components
*Poor QC on suspension parts


Wandering
* Caster - mounting brackets for LCAs out of spec on either the frame or axle end causing caster to be out of spec from factory
* Bad track bar bushings
* For those lucky enough with both issues, the play in steering gear box exaggerates wandering issue

I've read some instances where the Jeep wanders, but the steering wheel feels tight. Others have loose steering but no wander. Some have both, which is the nightmare scenario.

I'm not sure if this helps anyone, but I think it is helpful to consider these issues exclusive to each other and that some drivers simply have both issues.

@JeepCares - can you please pass along all of the "free" detective work all of us are doing to help your product.
 

Tumbleweed

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So my jeeps been in the shop 5 times totaling almost a month in the 4 months ive owned it. 4 for steering, one for soft top rattle and now my alternator and battery just got replaced. I called Jeep wave explaining how aggravated i am and requested a reimbursement for a monthly payment and for someone to call me back to discuss a buyback. I sent them a screenshot of my monthly payment and got a response in two days stating they just accepted the reimbursement and are sending me a check.

Hope this helps someone else get some money back
 

VegasJeepJL

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So my jeeps been in the shop 5 times totaling almost a month in the 4 months ive owned it. 4 for steering, one for soft top rattle and now my alternator and battery just got replaced. I called Jeep wave explaining how aggravated i am and requested a reimbursement for a monthly payment and for someone to call me back to discuss a buyback. I sent them a screenshot of my monthly payment and got a response in two days stating they just accepted the reimbursement and are sending me a check.

Hope this helps someone else get some money back
Hi -
Did they and if yes,how did they fix your steering issues?
 

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Tumbleweed

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Hi -
Did they and if yes,how did they fix your steering issues?
Unfortunately no and they don’t seem to be willing to further troubleshoot the issue either. I have seen a small improvement with the PCM flash, trackbar and updated steering stabilizer on top of tightening the finger loose balljoints but it’s still no where as responsive as my lifted JKU. Honesty after being extremely brand loyal and owning nothing but Chrysler Daimler vehicles my entire life including three wranglers I’m thinking of making the switch to another brand due to the declining quality and poor customer service. If my battery died just three weeks earlier I would of been stranded in the middle of Valley of the Gods Utah alone which is not something i should have to worry about happening on a new vehicle
 
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hubble

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Update on my 2018 JLU. Bought last June and had the wandering and loose steering issue. The steering and wandering got better with more miles I put on it but never got to 100%. I had an alignment done months ago and it did help a little. I put a FOX steering stabilizer on ( no help ) and the longer lower control arms from the Mopar lift kit, these may have helped a little. Two weeks ago I installed the Dynatrac 2" lift with FOX shocks and the Steer Smart HD front adj. track bar. Gotta say the Jeep handles and steers better than ever. The wandering is gone and the loose steering is pretty much gone also. There is still just a smidge of looseness to the steering feeling but very acceptable. During the install all the OEM bolts and nuts were tight. After I installed it I went for a test drive and there was a lot of looseness to the steering, it was pretty bad. I drove it like this for a few days then decided to go back and check the torque on everything I changed. Well low and behold I found the track bar bolts loose on both ends. I torqued them to speck and BAM trouble corrected. I am very pleased with the results and it was money well spent. I have been to 3 dealers a total of 5 times and was done with that, I was not going to waste anymore time with them. My suggestion to the people with loose steering would be check the torque on the track bar bolts or better yet replace it with a aftermarket piece and torque to speck.
 

jacllondon

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Update on my 2018 JLU. Bought last June and had the wandering and loose steering issue. The steering and wandering got better with more miles I put on it but never got to 100%. I had an alignment done months ago and it did help a little. I put a FOX steering stabilizer on ( no help ) and the longer lower control arms from the Mopar lift kit, these may have helped a little. Two weeks ago I installed the Dynatrac 2" lift with FOX shocks and the Steer Smart HD front adj. track bar. Gotta say the Jeep handles and steers better than ever. The wandering is gone and the loose steering is pretty much gone also. There is still just a smidge of looseness to the steering feeling but very acceptable. During the install all the OEM bolts and nuts were tight. After I installed it I went for a test drive and there was a lot of looseness to the steering, it was pretty bad. I drove it like this for a few days then decided to go back and check the torque on everything I changed. Well low and behold I found the track bar bolts loose on both ends. I torqued them to speck and BAM trouble corrected. I am very pleased with the results and it was money well spent. I have been to 3 dealers a total of 5 times and was done with that, I was not going to waste anymore time with them. My suggestion to the people with loose steering would be check the torque on the track bar bolts or better yet replace it with a aftermarket piece and torque to speck.
I do not understand how a new trackbar or tighting bolts would help to the problem that the damn steering wheel doesnt return to center after a turn. thats the main problem, (and the looseness) it doesnt go to the center and it keeps going to the direction of last turn, so u need to countersteer to adjust the direction, and jeep continues on the new direction till u have to countersteer again in a over and overadjustments
 

roaniecowpony

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I do not understand how a new trackbar or tighting bolts would help to the problem that the damn steering wheel doesnt return to center after a turn. thats the main problem, (and the looseness) it doesnt go to the center and it keeps going to the direction of last turn, so u need to countersteer to adjust the direction, and jeep continues on the new direction till u have to countersteer again in a over and overadjustments

From my post on page 313 of this thread:

When I was reading all these steering issues here and trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I didn't immediately grasp the relationship of the track bar and steering wandering/looseness. It just wasn't intuitively obvious to me that the track bar has direct and immediate effect on steering. It just wasn't the first place I'd go looking for a loose feeling in the steering.

We all know the track bar keeps the axle centered in the frame. However, if you measure some things in the steering system, the critical role the track bar plays in the steering system becomes more clear.

I'm going to convert turns on the steering wheel to inches of movement at the periphery of the steering wheel, because that's what people have been using as a measure of "play" in the steering system.

On my Oct 2018 build JLUR:
Steering wheel is ~ 15" in diameter or 47.1" in circumference
There are ~ 3 1/4 turns to move the steering system thru its entire range, lock to lock
The full range the tie rod moves ~ 6 1/2" lock to lock

3 1/4 turns multiplied by 47.1 = 153" that the steering wheel moves at the outer periphery to move the steering thru the entire range, lock to lock.

153" of steering wheel movement divided by the 6 1/2" of tierod movement = 23.5" of steering wheel movement = 1" of tierod movement.

The tierod and the track bar are almost parallel.

My OEM track bar bushings allowed the track bar to move about 1/8" or more, when just sawing the wheel back and forth 1/2 turn, setting still in the driveway. I believe the dynamic loads of actual road conditions while driving would cause even more movement, not to mention flex of the hollow track bar with a big S in the middle. But I'll use 1/8" for this example.

1/8th of the 23.5" of steering wheel movement (to make the tierod move 1") = 2.9" of steering wheel movement to make the tierod move 1/8".

So, if the axle moves laterally (side to side) 1/8" when the steering system pushes/pulls on the draglink/tierod system, the steering wheel has to move almost 3" before it begins to change the direction of the tires . Sound familiar? I recall a number of posts stating they had about a 3" dead zone in the steering wheel input. My description of my Jeep was that it felt like the steering was connected with bungee cords, that is: if I moved the steering wheel an inch in a direction and held it there, while on the highway, it would have a delayed change in steering direction to "catch up" (hysteresis is the technical term).

I had to do this little math exercise to convince myself that the track bar was the likely culprit in my Jeep's steering looseness, before I bought a $285 track bar. After my test drive, I am pleased to have spent $285 instead of going to the dealer for a heavy dose of frustration that has been handed out to many here. As always, YMMV.:captain:
 

clayps

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I do not understand how a new trackbar or tighting bolts would help to the problem that the damn steering wheel doesnt return to center after a turn. thats the main problem, (and the looseness) it doesnt go to the center and it keeps going to the direction of last turn, so u need to countersteer to adjust the direction, and jeep continues on the new direction till u have to countersteer again in a over and overadjustments
This seems more like a caster/steering box issue to me.
 

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jacllondon

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From my post on page 313 of this thread:

When I was reading all these steering issues here and trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I didn't immediately grasp the relationship of the track bar and steering wandering/looseness. It just wasn't intuitively obvious to me that the track bar has direct and immediate effect on steering. It just wasn't the first place I'd go looking for a loose feeling in the steering.

We all know the track bar keeps the axle centered in the frame. However, if you measure some things in the steering system, the critical role the track bar plays in the steering system becomes more clear.

I'm going to convert turns on the steering wheel to inches of movement at the periphery of the steering wheel, because that's what people have been using as a measure of "play" in the steering system.

On my Oct 2018 build JLUR:
Steering wheel is ~ 15" in diameter or 47.1" in circumference
There are ~ 3 1/4 turns to move the steering system thru its entire range, lock to lock
The full range the tie rod moves ~ 6 1/2" lock to lock

3 1/4 turns multiplied by 47.1 = 153" that the steering wheel moves at the outer periphery to move the steering thru the entire range, lock to lock.

153" of steering wheel movement divided by the 6 1/2" of tierod movement = 23.5" of steering wheel movement = 1" of tierod movement.

The tierod and the track bar are almost parallel.

My OEM track bar bushings allowed the track bar to move about 1/8" or more, when just sawing the wheel back and forth 1/2 turn, setting still in the driveway. I believe the dynamic loads of actual road conditions while driving would cause even more movement, not to mention flex of the hollow track bar with a big S in the middle. But I'll use 1/8" for this example.

1/8th of the 23.5" of steering wheel movement (to make the tierod move 1") = 2.9" of steering wheel movement to make the tierod move 1/8".

So, if the axle moves laterally (side to side) 1/8" when the steering system pushes/pulls on the draglink/tierod system, the steering wheel has to move almost 3" before it begins to change the direction of the tires . Sound familiar? I recall a number of posts stating they had about a 3" dead zone in the steering wheel input. My description of my Jeep was that it felt like the steering was connected with bungee cords, that is: if I moved the steering wheel an inch in a direction and held it there, while on the highway, it would have a delayed change in steering direction to "catch up" (hysteresis is the technical term).

I had to do this little math exercise to convince myself that the track bar was the likely culprit in my Jeep's steering looseness, before I bought a $285 track bar. After my test drive, I am pleased to have spent $285 instead of going to the dealer for a heavy dose of frustration that has been handed out to many here. As always, YMMV.:captain:

this doesnt explain why some wrangler has these issues some dont. they are all the same mechanically
 

jacllondon

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This seems more like a caster/steering box issue to me.
I have another appointment tomorrow at service. I'll let you know. If they tell me its a jeep thing, I;ll go to carmax and sell the damn thing
 

BrandonB00

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I'm pretty angry. got the jeep thing speech again. forgot to write my mileage when I dropped it off because I was already pissed about it getting "broken into" last night so I don't know how far they drove it. The broken radio will get fixed " next quarter" or something with a software update.... I wish i had never bought this thing. All the Jeep fun has been ruined by these issues.

It's not just the issues because all cars have issues. It's the way @JeepCares and FCA or whoever keeps engineers from fixing the problem has handled it. When all my colleagues and friends ask where my big yellow jeep went I'll have plenty to tell them about buying a FCA product.
 
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Goin2drt

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Can someone post the best alignment data here? I know I have read 7 degrees caster or something but I am looking for all the exact data points so I can "dummy" proof it for the alignment shop that I want to take it to.

Full RK Adventure series 2.5" lift with 35" tires if that matters.
 

PaPasJP

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I PM'ed Jeep Cares about my steering problem and how the alignment and my mechanic told me the steering wheel has excessive play and can't get the steering wheel centered.

After 2 weeks of them talking to the dealer and ordering parts, the Jeep drives nice.

Fixed.

They said they only changed the intermediate shaft on the steering wheel and my mechanic said that was a bad part that he could see as well, but, the steering is tighter, takes more effort to turn the wheel. Not excessive, just move than it was.

Did they adjust the steering gear box to remove the play??? Don't know.

But all is well here with my Jeep.
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