Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[Rdmitch]

3,000 posts about steering related problems.

You just wanted to be post 3000 !

Quick shout out with thanks to everyone on this thread. The better I and all of us understand the problems and possible fixes gives us all better power to deal with the dealer and. FCA folks. While not yet any better than it was before we are working towards solutions together and we are much stronger as a group.

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[hubble]

Put on the Fox stabilizer yesterday and no help. I had an appointment with the dealer this morning to check alignment (because of the wandering) and center the steering wheel. But they would not work on it under warranty because of the after market stabilizer. They said the aftermarket stabilizer was throwing the alignment off and would charge me $69 to do the alignment. I'm so sick of this shit!

 

[Chewbacca2264]

it changes feedback to steering computer, or could bind. Some guys have turned off steering assist to bandaid stop shimmy. My theory is the combination of steering components being marginal in strength is interacting with the goofy FCA computer help induce various levels of problems.

People with problems have combinations of loose bolts, steering parts on the bottom side of the quality bell curve (trackbar, tierod, gear box, ss, etc), bad alignment, or induced via lift messing up geometry. If its loose enough you get full on wobble, inbetween you get shiimy and or loose steering.

Reducing "in spec" movement of suspension can keep steering assist from getting mixed up and help induce shimmy (hello SS).


If you have enough issues SS is only fix one of X items and problems stay, if you are pretty much ok but say have a slightly weaker but maybe deemed "ok" trackbar, etc the Steering stabilizer is a fix, its simply doing its job damping in spec vibrations, but is seeing extreme duty... This basically means there is not enough margin built into the design and we will see new better parts to push the bottom quality level of parts into a range where the Steering stabilizer is not required to help more than it should on bumps. I also expect software to prevent some cases of shimmy.

Alot of the confusion is people are looking for one item, its a combination of interactions, if you have problems you should assume you have 3-4 issues, and hunt them all down. I have a feeling alot of us will be buying new steering box in 2-3 years (worn out), trackbars, in addition to the obvious SS.

PW, this is an outstanding post! In principle I agree with basically everything you said. I mentioned in a previous post that the tie rod and drag link on my JL was not as "heavy" as my JK's. I also found playing around setting the toe on the new JKUR the other day that the movement was very different between the two models. This is one of the points that I made on another post, I felt like Jeep ran the thing too close to the edge with barely adequate parts. You and I are in agreement on this point. The hard part for me to figure out that has changed my thinking a bit is how is it possible that some folks, actually a lot of folks have JL's that drive really well? If the parts are on the edge are they just the lucky ones that got a Jeep that seems to handle well? I like a lot of other folks beefed up the trackbar, should we not have had at least some improvement? Setting caster to the OE max should have helped, but in my case made no difference. I guess what I am saying is that while I agree with you I also feel that there must be more at play here. We know that there were production issues (trackbar welds), I really have a gut feeling that the base geometry is off on some of these Jeeps. How could they all be put together to the same exacting specs and yet the borderline parts work from some and not others? I have had two friends who are both mechanics work through various parts of the JL with me. My one buddy who is a front end guy who put my Jeep on the rack to set the caster is convinced that the problem is in the steering gear/computer assist. My other buddy is as absolutely baffled as I am. We went through everything else on the Jeep we could think of, yes some steering components were not to spec, we took care of that. We added the trackbar, the Falcon SS, two sets of springs and shocks. We changed tires, balanced tires, played with psi. We loosened the steering components and rear trackbar, rocked the jeep to settle it, set both axels and torqued everything back up and still it did not get better. The dealer replaced the gear box, still no improvement. So while I agree with you it still bothers me that FCA still appears to be chasing this around and giving very different messages to different people. I really hope that there is a combo of parts that will fix 100% of these things but I fear that there could be deeper issues.

 

[Chewbacca2264]

What if the steering stabilizer goes bad and tightens up? Also, I read that the defective date code oem steering stabilizers were too tight. Something about air pockets in them. Can a steering stabilizer that has frozen up due to a factory defect that causes it to stiffen up cause a problem to the steering box over time? Or other components? If it is possible, then this could confirm what he said FCA told him that the bad steering stabilizers are causing the steering box to become loose.

The info I had on the original batch of stabilizers was similar to yours in that they had air pockets causing cavitation. To me this would destroy the 50/50 hydraulic damping action of the stabilizer. In other words the stabilizer should react the same in both directions in a linear fashion. Cavitation could destroy this and provide different feedback depending on the action of the wheels. I am not sure if it is a matter of "loose or tight", more a matter of consistent.

 

[Chewbacca2264]

Put on the Fox stabilizer yesterday and no help. I had an appointment with the dealer this morning to check alignment (because of the wandering) and center the steering wheel. But they would not work on it under warranty because of the after market stabilizer. They said the aftermarket stabilizer was throwing the alignment off and would charge me $69 to do the alignment. I'm so sick of this shit!

If the stabilizer you put on is a gas variety with nitrogen then it could absolutely cause the vehicle to pull to the left. The gas stabilizers are really designed for large heavy tires and are not the best option with a stock set up. A simple hydraulic stabilizer is better unless you are turning large tires. As far as it throwing off the alignment...….wow that is a new one. It would simply cause your wheels to pull slightly when moving. It would not effect the toe in one bit which after all is really all that you can adjust on the Jeep unless you get into control arms to adjust caster. The only reason I chose the Falcon is because I was desperate at that point, honestly I am going to replace the stocker on my JKUR with a $60 hydraulic shock.

 

[chadc880]

Yep, that's the guy....Chad. He makes me feel so much better than Chrysler. Go get em Chad!

I am sorry for the delay in response. Yes I made another video "still not fixed".

In a nut shell we never heard back from the engineers. nothing. The service manager as well heard nothing back. My weirdness with my steering is ever since tightening everything up, all 4 ball joint nuts, tie rod ends, and the 1/4 turn on the steering box, My JL has been driving quite nice. Now I know in the back of my head it is not 100% but it is darn close. That was until my stabilizer went out. That was some serious wobble right there. Both on the interstate on a bridge over the lake. They replaced the stabilizer and that fixed that issue.

BUT!!!!!!!

I could swear the new stabilizer is much tighter than my old one and it almost seems like it is too tight when going over 75MPH +

I am seriously considering backing off my adjuster 1/8 turn. But I want to check the forum back out and see all of the responses and updates I missed.

On a lighter funnier note, I had to get my wife Tahoe service last week. Took half the day so she drove my JL. Man did she ever complain on how unsafe she felt driving my JL. I couldn't stop laughing. And there I thought it was much better.

 

[californiajeeping]

I am sorry for the delay in response. Yes I made another video "still not fixed".

In a nut shell we never heard back from the engineers. nothing. The service manager as well heard nothing back. My weirdness with my steering is ever since tightening everything up, all 4 ball joint nuts, tie rod ends, and the 1/4 turn on the steering box, My JL has been driving quite nice. Now I know in the back of my head it is not 100% but it is darn close. That was until my stabilizer went out. That was some serious wobble right there. Both on the interstate on a bridge over the lake. They replaced the stabilizer and that fixed that issue.

BUT!!!!!!!

I could swear the new stabilizer is much tighter than my old one and it almost seems like it is too tight when going over 75MPH +

I am seriously considering backing off my adjuster 1/8 turn. But I want to check the forum back out and see all of the responses and updates I missed.

On a lighter funnier note, I had to get my wife Tahoe service last week. Took half the day so she drove my JL. Man did she ever complain on how unsafe she felt driving my JL. I couldn't stop laughing. And there I thought it was much better.

Hi Chad. Check out this video another member posted. Does your steering box have this same steering shaft to pitman arm behavior?

 

[chadc880]

Hi Chad. Check out this video another member posted. Does your steering box have this same steering shaft to pitman arm behavior?

This was a video I made a while back showing the steering box play.

 

[chadc880]

Oh and another reason why I haven't been on is chasing a few hard top water leaks, and the charlie brown speaker issue and squeaky steering wheel button.

 

[californiajeeping]

This was a video I made a while back showing the steering box play.

Yes, but your video doesn't show the the steering column and pitman arm in the same shot. It might be worth looking at it to see if yours does it to the same extent to help further troubleshooting.

By the way, there is a new track bar and link rod (driver's side of the tie rod that connects to the pitman arm). New part numbers listed earlier in this thread.

 

[hubble]

If the stabilizer you put on is a gas variety with nitrogen then it could absolutely cause the vehicle to pull to the left. The gas stabilizers are really designed for large heavy tires and are not the best option with a stock set up. A simple hydraulic stabilizer is better unless you are turning large tires. As far as it throwing off the alignment...….wow that is a new one. It would simply cause your wheels to pull slightly when moving. It would not effect the toe in one bit which after all is really all that you can adjust on the Jeep unless you get into control arms to adjust caster. The only reason I chose the Falcon is because I was desperate at that point, honestly I am going to replace the stocker on my JKUR with a $60 hydraulic shock.

I only put the Fox SS on because I thought it might help with the wandering, it did not. In fact there was no change at all between the two that I can tell.

 

[Chewbacca2264]

I only put the Fox SS on because I thought it might help with the wandering, it did not. In fact there was no change at all between the two that I can tell.

Yeah not a bad thought, unfortunately the stabilizer is not the problem. In fact I believe that the stabilizers are being overworked due to other issues, causing them to fail. The fox units are solid so a good choice on your part.

 

[californiajeeping]

According to many of the defenders, the loose steering and wandering problem that both the 2018 and 2019 JLs are having, acknowledged by FCA in a Star case published by FCA, is a super tiny fraction of the amount of JLs sold. So it can't be a design flaw since the large majority don't have the problem. Factoring in the build dates of the affected JLs are all over the place, doesn't look like it was a consistent batch of defective parts were installed. So this has to be fixable since most JLs don't have steering problems, right? Thoughts?

 

[hubble]

It's strange how one part or combination of parts fixes one person's jeep, but the same part or combination does not fix somebody else's. Mine has improved over several months and miles (10,000 ). I have put the extended lower control arms on ( from the Mopar lift kit ), had the tires rotated and balanced, and just recently installed the Fox stabilizer. It feels pretty good but still likes to wander and feels a little loose. I was hoping to add some toe in today at the dealer but was shot down. I guess I'll have to pay for an alignment and see where its at and add some toe in. After that I don't know what to do...................

 

[Mkz567]

Could anyone without the dead spot in their steering wheel check the steering box, like the person did in this video? Does the pitman arm nut turn in sync more closely with the steering shaft or is there slack and no turn of the pitman arm nut as shown in this video while in park? The thought is that this is normal in park and while engaged in drive with the brake on, until it is moving, and then the steering pump / electric part takes up that slack while the vehicle is in motion. This research will help isolate the dead spot issue to the steering box or something else (like the steering pump, or something electronic and perhaps programming related). This won't explain drifting or other steering related problems, but will help on the dead spot issue.

Sorry noob here. What am i looking at?

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