Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[CptFloridaMan]

Got my jeep back from the dealer after doing the 02-003-19 TSB for the trackbar. It’s better but not perfect, it still dances a little in the lane. A lot more responsive to steering inputs now.

I did see they had me aired up to 40psi though. Dropped it to 34lbs and it feels better now. Steering box play is now more predictable with the new track bar.

I’m a bone stock sport with stock control arms so my caster should be around 5° I believe.

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[californiajeeping]

Got my jeep back from the dealer after doing the 02-003-19 TSB for the trackbar. It’s better but not perfect, it still dances a little in the lane. A lot more responsive to steering inputs now.

I did see they had me aired up to 40psi though. Dropped it to 34lbs and it feels better now. Steering box play is now more predictable with the new track bar.

I’m a bone stock sport with stock control arms so my caster should be around 5° I believe.

Did you try the power steering reset yet? https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...as-play-and-drifts.3691/page-405#post-1132084

 

[CptFloridaMan]

Did you try the power steering reset yet? https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...as-play-and-drifts.3691/page-405#post-1132084

I have not but i’ve been meaning to try it. I am however curious to just drive it without power steering and how it behaves without the electric pump.

 

[Halstem1]

The DW after all that you have done is interesting and I’m not going to leave that to the last.

If the fuse pull doesn’t work I suggest that you talk to PSC. What was the caster set to when you had the alignment done?

It doesn't make sense, right? LIke I don't understand where it could come from. Curious if a new steering box could fix it, like thats the loose part that giving movement.

Tried the fuse pull and no change. however, I will say, when I purchased the vehicle I really don't think the deadspot was that bad. It wasn't good, but it wasn't horrible. I feel like its worse. Like the DW has stretched out the gears or something. Is that possible?

PCS... is an option. Crazy expensive considering I'd have to have someone install. That's out of my comfort zone. I have been looking at Redneck Ram though. 700$ plus install. I'm sure there are some extra costs for power steering cooler. And have to drive somewhere to have installed.

Caster is at 6.2, both sides. Its done it at 4.7, 5.7, and 6.2. The steering feels heavier with each adjustment but no effect on the actual DW.

 

[JDM]

It doesn't make sense, right? LIke I don't understand where it could come from. Curious if a new steering box could fix it, like thats the loose part that giving movement.

Tried the fuse pull and no change. however, I will say, when I purchased the vehicle I really don't think the deadspot was that bad. It wasn't good, but it wasn't horrible. I feel like its worse. Like the DW has stretched out the gears or something. Is that possible?

PCS... is an option. Crazy expensive considering I'd have to have someone install. That's out of my comfort zone. I have been looking at Redneck Ram though. 700$ plus install. I'm sure there are some extra costs for power steering cooler. And have to drive somewhere to have installed.

Caster is at 6.2, both sides. Its done it at 4.7, 5.7, and 6.2. The steering feels heavier with each adjustment but no effect on the actual DW.

No I’d doesn’t and a lot of what’s happening with these JL’s doesn’t Make sense and it’s not my intention to try to diagnose the problem that you’re having just to possibly help by discussing options.

First, don’t be afraid to give the JLR caster. I have a JLU, stock height with similar mods. A month back I installed adjustable LCA’s and had the caster bumped up to +7* with a cross caster of +.25*. At stock height with 33’s the difference is HUGE. Yes it does feel slightly heavier but the tradeoff was that it narrowed the dead spot to where it’s very small, manageable and infrequent, depends on the road conditions. However if I were to do a lift I would expect that it would have the opposite effect and I would once again have to do an alignment to increase caster to +7* and recenter the axle.

Some are concerned about the pinion angle at +7* caster. At stock height it isn’t an issue on my JLU but if I were to do a lift, any amount of lift, I would install adjustable upper control arms. The lower are really meant to position the axle and the upper to adjust for pinion angle. The higher one goes, pinion angle becomes a factor and driveline work might be necessary... double cardan joints or hi angle Rzepas. So it is possible to get it right but the budget goes up, way up.

I started this process with my JLU because of a severe death wobble that started at about 6,000 - 8,000 miles, bone stock! The dealer and FCA took their sweet time responding and by the time I ended up having it fixed the dead spot became more apparent. A track bar eliminated the DW. I replaced one component at a time to get a handle on the specific results.

The problem with the JL dead spot is not just the steering box, it’s the entire electric system. For some a fuse pull and reset seems to work for me it did not. That’s why, if I keep my JLU long term I’m ripping it out and replacing with the PSC, yes OUCH! Before I do, as much as I now like my JLU, I’m checking out the new Bronco.

Can a steering box cause DW? Good question. I’ve been told that if I were to go to 37” and up, a lot of stress and strain will be put on the box and that the stock JL box is definitely not up to handling it. So while I wouldn’t go as far as saying that is the problem in your case, it could be contributing to it.

I was fortunate to have work done by a credible Jeep builder and a HD alignment shop. They pointed me in the right direction and it worked. In fact they saved me money by getting it right. Some of this may be of help.

 

[CptFloridaMan]

So I decided to a video of the slop... Is this acceptable? I’ve driven a few JKs, and JLs at work and this seems about on par with mine.


Does the AE box improve on this?

And how does a pcm flash for the pump correct for steering dead zone if it’s all mechanical?

 

[Halstem1]

No I’d doesn’t and a lot of what’s happening with these JL’s doesn’t Make sense and it’s not my intention to try to diagnose the problem that you’re having just to possibly help by discussing options.

First, don’t be afraid to give the JLR caster. I have a JLU, stock height with similar mods. A month back I installed adjustable LCA’s and had the caster bumped up to +7* with a cross caster of +.25*. At stock height with 33’s the difference is HUGE. Yes it does feel slightly heavier but the tradeoff was that it narrowed the dead spot to where it’s very small, manageable and infrequent, depends on the road conditions. However if I were to do a lift I would expect that it would have the opposite effect and I would once again have to do an alignment to increase caster to +7* and recenter the axle.

Some are concerned about the pinion angle at +7* caster. At stock height it isn’t an issue on my JLU but if I were to do a lift, any amount of lift, I would install adjustable upper control arms. The lower are really meant to position the axle and the upper to adjust for pinion angle. The higher one goes, pinion angle becomes a factor and driveline work might be necessary... double cardan joints or hi angle Rzepas. So it is possible to get it right but the budget goes up, way up.

I started this process with my JLU because of a severe death wobble that started at about 6,000 - 8,000 miles, bone stock! The dealer and FCA took their sweet time responding and by the time I ended up having it fixed the dead spot became more apparent. A track bar eliminated the DW. I replaced one component at a time to get a handle on the specific results.

The problem with the JL dead spot is not just the steering box, it’s the entire electric system. For some a fuse pull and reset seems to work for me it did not. That’s why, if I keep my JLU long term I’m ripping it out and replacing with the PSC, yes OUCH! Before I do, as much as I now like my JLU, I’m checking out the new Bronco.

Can a steering box cause DW? Good question. I’ve been told that if I were to go to 37” and up, a lot of stress and strain will be put on the box and that the stock JL box is definitely not up to handling it. So while I wouldn’t go as far as saying that is the problem in your case, it could be contributing to it.

I was fortunate to have work done by a credible Jeep builder and a HD alignment shop. They pointed me in the right direction and it worked. In fact they saved me money by getting it right. Some of this may be of help.

This is very helpful. Thanks you! Not looking for a diagnosis (however that would be nice) but more info and ideas that either point me in the correct direction or the correct fix. I'm just baffled at this point as to how I'm still having an issue. I'm trying not get get frustrated as several have, because at the end of the day there are only so many parts even involved.

Honestly, I think the actual steering box feels messed up now. I was just driving again over lunch. I'm starting to wonder if the death wobble incidents haven't stressed the steering box to create more slack. However, I don't know if that is possible because I've never seen in a steerin box. But for example, to stay strait against the crown of the road, I have to keep the steering wheel turned to about the 2 o'clock position which I don't remember being the case previously. My current course of action to make this a dealer/warranty problem because I think I have addressed any weak links. Interesting what you were told about 37s. Mostly because I do think this has gotten worse after each stress event. And I don't even have "heavy" 37's compared to most.

I may play with the caster some more. However, with a 2 inch lift and not having adjustable upper control arms, I'm hesitant to add more caster. The driveshaft is already near the end of its limit at the t-case joint. Also, being in an environment with winter, driveline vibes are a concern when the front shaft is engaged. Also, since I plan on keeping the fad, the angle of the fad is such that it is a low point on the front axle now. Not sure how I feel about that off-road if I increase caster any further.

The fuse reset did nothing for me. My "slack" feels mechanical but I could be wrong. I am curious though about an supposed computer update that could correct some sensitivity in the gear box. I have not had this done but will specifically ask about it when I take it in.

Thanks again for your response. Its constructive and helpful. Unfortunately I do not have a single off-road shop near me. I think after the dealer looks at it, if I'm still having problems I will travel to find a shop to help me. Several had told me that since the dealer installed the lift, installed the 37" tires and I only have 18K miles that I should make it their problem to fix. Probably true. I'd prefer that but like many have said, I don't think there is a general fix for this.

 

[JDM]

This is very helpful. Thanks you! Not looking for a diagnosis (however that would be nice) but more info and ideas that either point me in the correct direction or the correct fix. I'm just baffled at this point as to how I'm still having an issue. I'm trying not get get frustrated as several have, because at the end of the day there are only so many parts even involved.

Honestly, I think the actual steering box feels messed up now. I was just driving again over lunch. I'm starting to wonder if the death wobble incidents haven't stressed the steering box to create more slack. However, I don't know if that is possible because I've never seen in a steerin box. But for example, to stay strait against the crown of the road, I have to keep the steering wheel turned to about the 2 o'clock position which I don't remember being the case previously. My current course of action to make this a dealer/warranty problem because I think I have addressed any weak links. Interesting what you were told about 37s. Mostly because I do think this has gotten worse after each stress event. And I don't even have "heavy" 37's compared to most.

I may play with the caster some more. However, with a 2 inch lift and not having adjustable upper control arms, I'm hesitant to add more caster. The driveshaft is already near the end of its limit at the t-case joint. Also, being in an environment with winter, driveline vibes are a concern when the front shaft is engaged. Also, since I plan on keeping the fad, the angle of the fad is such that it is a low point on the front axle now. Not sure how I feel about that off-road if I increase caster any further.

The fuse reset did nothing for me. My "slack" feels mechanical but I could be wrong. I am curious though about an supposed computer update that could correct some sensitivity in the gear box. I have not had this done but will specifically ask about it when I take it in.

Thanks again for your response. Its constructive and helpful. Unfortunately I do not have a single off-road shop near me. I think after the dealer looks at it, if I'm still having problems I will travel to find a shop to help me. Several had told me that since the dealer installed the lift, installed the 37" tires and I only have 18K miles that I should make it their problem to fix. Probably true. I'd prefer that but like many have said, I don't think there is a general fix for this.

 

[JDM]

B

Something very wrong with having to keep the steering wheel in the 2 o’clock position to account for the camber in the road. I’m surprised that your dash isn’t lighting up with the “service ESC” warning. The steering column has sensors that will note when the steering wheel is off center by that much for any length of time. The computer will think that your trying to turn while all the wheels are rotating at the same speed. It won’t know your going straight and then the message.

When I had the caster increased to +7* The drag link had to be adjusted to center the steering wheel. It has a Synergy D Link among other upgrades. The D Link had to be modified on the fixed end Because my JLU is at stock height. I had to take it to the Jeep builder to get that done. Within a few blocks the warning came on because my steering wheel was in that 2 o’clock position for too long. Once the wheel was centred within a few blocks the warning came off.

That sucks, hope you get to the bottom of this.

 

[Halstem1]

Something very wrong with having to keep the steering wheel in the 2 o’clock position to account for the camber in the road. I’m surprised that your dash isn’t lighting up with the “service ESC” warning. The steering column has sensors that will note when the steering wheel is off center by that much for any length of time. The computer will think that your trying to turn while all the wheels are rotating at the same speed. It won’t know your going straight and then the message.

When I had the caster increased to +7* The drag link had to be adjusted to center the steering wheel. It has a Synergy D Link among other upgrades. The D Link had to be modified on the fixed end Because my JLU is at stock height. I had to take it to the Jeep builder to get that done. Within a few blocks the warning came on because my steering wheel was in that 2 o’clock position for too long. Once the wheel was centred within a few blocks the warning came off.

That sucks, hope you get to the bottom of this.

I don't get a warning... however there has been more than once that the ETC has come on going over a bridge overpass because of the reason you described. There was enough slack that the computer thought it was spinning out and cut all power at 75 MPH on the interstate.

And I'm pretty sure the drag link is correct as far as adjustment. It will do the same thing if the road is cambered the other direction, I'll have to hold the wheel at the 10-11 o'clock position. I feel this is new though. It was never this noticeable previously. I had the worst DW I've had over the weekend and I feel like its stretched something.

I made an appointment at the dealer for 7/29 (I'm out of town next week) and I'll see what they say.

 

[sonchik]

Problem fixed (so far). I have 2018 JL for over two years now and for two years I had the sloppy steering issue and been monitoring this thread and the new one on the Gladiator forum. Since I got the car I had 2.5 inch lift installed, 35 inch tires and new wheels. I put a teraflex damper but that was not to fix the ‘loose’ steering issue. I was about to do the self adjustment of the gear box as reported by others. I have monitored and researched all ‘solutions’ and decided that gearbox adjustment is most likely the best possible resolution. And then I thought to give my dealer another chance. I went there and had a frank and polite conversation with the service manager. He agreed to go on a ride with me and confirmed that to him it looked like too much play. I told him I believed the cause to be the steering gearbox. He asked if my lift was Mopar and I told him no. I told him that loose steering was there long before I lifted the car. He listened again. He took the Jeep to inspect if anything was wrong or out place before dealing with gearbox. Called me and told me they did not find any issues and were going to go with my recommendation to replace the gearbox. I asked him to make sure to get the latest one with that AE part number, which he did. The gearbox was replaced. On my way to the dealer I thought that I may have a 50% chance of getting it fixed as I know others reported no progress after gearbox was replaced. I was pleasantly surprised that the ride is now firmer and I don’t have to ‘fight’ my steering wheel with constant left and right micro swings to keep the car going straight. The slope is almost gone. I drove narrow roads and took it to highway at high speeds. It tracks much better. I said ‘almost’ gone. There is still play. It might now be ‘normal’ and what it should be but I haven’t driven a Jeep with normal steering in a long time. I can 100% say I have an improvement in my steering and now don’t worry about making 1500 mile trip I have coming up next week to the West. I appreciate this dealer listening to me and not going to this is a Jeep thing. I will say that another dealer two years ago told me just that and I have not gone back there for service or any other work ever since. So, in the end for me the steering gearbox seems to be the main culprit of the loose steering. I wish that you all can have the same understanding from the dealer. I will also consider myself lucky that just one replacement was enough - must have gotten the box that was calibrated right. Here is the pic of the part numbers. The dealer did say that the box they installed on mine was even newer than the one I gave them the number for

 

[californiajeeping]

Problem fixed (so far). I have 2018 JL for over two years now and for two years I had the sloppy steering issue and been monitoring this thread and the new one on the Gladiator forum. Since I got the car I had 2.5 inch lift installed, 35 inch tires and new wheels. I put a teraflex damper but that was not to fix the ‘loose’ steering issue. I was about to do the self adjustment of the gear box as reported by others. I have monitored and researched all ‘solutions’ and decided that gearbox adjustment is most likely the best possible resolution. And then I thought to give my dealer another chance. I went there and had a frank and polite conversation with the service manager. He agreed to go on a ride with me and confirmed that to him it looked like too much play. I told him I believed the cause to be the steering gearbox. He asked if my lift was Mopar and I told him no. I told him that loose steering was there long before I lifted the car. He listened again. He took the Jeep to inspect if anything was wrong or out place before dealing with gearbox. Called me and told me they did not find any issues and were going to go with my recommendation to replace the gearbox. I asked him to make sure to get the latest one with that AE part number, which he did. The gearbox was replaced. On my way to the dealer I thought that I may have a 50% chance of getting it fixed as I know others reported no progress after gearbox was replaced. I was pleasantly surprised that the ride is now firmer and I don’t have to ‘fight’ my steering wheel with constant left and right micro swings to keep the car going straight. The slope is almost gone. I drove narrow roads and took it to highway at high speeds. It tracks much better. I said ‘almost’ gone. There is still play. It might now be ‘normal’ and what it should be but I haven’t driven a Jeep with normal steering in a long time. I can 100% say I have an improvement in my steering and now don’t worry about making 1500 mile trip I have coming up next week to the West. I appreciate this dealer listening to me and not going to this is a Jeep thing. I will say that another dealer two years ago told me just that and I have not gone back there for service or any other work ever since. So, in the end for me the steering gearbox seems to be the main culprit of the loose steering. I wish that you all can have the same understanding from the dealer. I will also consider myself lucky that just one replacement was enough - must have gotten the box that was calibrated right. Here is the pic of the part numbers. The dealer did say that the box they installed on mine was even newer than the one I gave them the number for

Have you tried the power steering reset procedure to get rid of the remaining play? https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...as-play-and-drifts.3691/page-405#post-1132084

 

[CptFloridaMan]

My 2020 Rubicon is the exact opposite of this. Below 70 or so there is 3/4- 1 inch dead zone in the center, above 70 it steers like a go cart, tight and very responsive.

This sums up my experience also. 1inch to either direction and then above 50 it stiffens up.

 

[roaniecowpony]

This sums up my experience also. 1inch to either direction and then above 50 it stiffens up.

I would suspect trackbar bushings are compressing.

 

[CptFloridaMan]

I would suspect trackbar bushings are compressing.

I don’t know how much stiffer the trackbar is that i just got replaced but i’m just gonna adjust the box this week to be honest i think.

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