Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[WXman]

As far as the steering issues go, my 2018 had the horrible wandering steering problem too, as did ALL of the 2018 JLs I test drove. Mine was 100% cured immediately when my dealership flashed my onboard computers and reloaded the calibrations for my VIN. Therefore, I still believe that the issue is not a hardware issue and lots of owners and dealers really jumped the gun when they started replacing hard parts. That screwed everybody because it muddied the water and made it harder to diagnose the actual problem.

Remember, 2018 was the first time they ever used an electronic control on the hydraulic pump. It was to be expected that there'd be issues. But rather than throwing parts at the problem, which was dumb in my opinion, I feel like FCA should have taken more time to start with the obvious: the software.

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[Albertaktm]

As far as the steering issues go, my 2018 had the horrible wandering steering problem too, as did ALL of the 2018 JLs I test drove. Mine was 100% cured immediately when my dealership flashed my onboard computers and reloaded the calibrations for my VIN. Therefore, I still believe that the issue is not a hardware issue and lots of owners and dealers really jumped the gun when they started replacing hard parts. That screwed everybody because it muddied the water and made it harder to diagnose the actual problem.

Remember, 2018 was the first time they ever used an electronic control on the hydraulic pump. It was to be expected that there'd be issues. But rather than throwing parts at the problem, which was dumb in my opinion, I feel like FCA should have taken more time to start with the obvious: the software.

So after all the posts on this thread about the drift on SOME of the new off the lot JL's, the fix is a simple firmware flash? I hope so. I have driven 2 before I ever read this thread. The first seemed perfect. The second text drive from a different dealer I noticed some drift. I mentioned it to the sales guy. Got some bs answer. I'll be buying a Unlimited Sahara Altitude soon and definitely will test drive it before they get the check! If it has the drift, I'll just tell them to reflash it and test it again.

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

As far as the steering issues go, my 2018 had the horrible wandering steering problem too, as did ALL of the 2018 JLs I test drove. Mine was 100% cured immediately when my dealership flashed my onboard computers and reloaded the calibrations for my VIN. Therefore, I still believe that the issue is not a hardware issue and lots of owners and dealers really jumped the gun when they started replacing hard parts. That screwed everybody because it muddied the water and made it harder to diagnose the actual problem.

Remember, 2018 was the first time they ever used an electronic control on the hydraulic pump. It was to be expected that there'd be issues. But rather than throwing parts at the problem, which was dumb in my opinion, I feel like FCA should have taken more time to start with the obvious: the software.

I asked my dealer to do that when I had my steering box replaced. He said it wasn’t necessary. FCA engineers didn’t give them any guidance on that, either. So hopefully that’s been changed since then (last summer).

 

[Asylum]

So after all the posts on this thread about the drift on SOME of the new off the lot JL's, the fix is a simple firmware flash? I hope so. I have driven 2 before I ever read this thread. The first seemed perfect. The second text drive from a different dealer I noticed some drift. I mentioned it to the sales guy. Got some bs answer. I'll be buying a Unlimited Sahara Altitude soon and definitely will test drive it before they get the check! If it has the drift, I'll just tell them to reflash it and test it again.

Can confirm, 2020 JLU Altitude no lift stock 18's, checking in with loose steering and hard pull to the right. Dealer told me it was normal until I ripped into the service writer and showed him the video I made. That's when he magically found some things he could look at. They did the TSB 19-002-19 "Air in the steering dampner" and told me that was all they could do. Thankfully that fixed the hard pull to the right. 1,000 Miles on it so far and its scary on the Interstates in a curve or tight lane. Under 50mph its manageable, although exhausting to keep it in the lane. Just don't take your eyes off the road for a second otherwise you will be well out of your lane.

As far as the steering issues go, my 2018 had the horrible wandering steering problem too, as did ALL of the 2018 JLs I test drove. Mine was 100% cured immediately when my dealership flashed my onboard computers and reloaded the calibrations for my VIN. Therefore, I still believe that the issue is not a hardware issue and lots of owners and dealers really jumped the gun when they started replacing hard parts. That screwed everybody because it muddied the water and made it harder to diagnose the actual problem.

Remember, 2018 was the first time they ever used an electronic control on the hydraulic pump. It was to be expected that there'd be issues. But rather than throwing parts at the problem, which was dumb in my opinion, I feel like FCA should have taken more time to start with the obvious: the software.

You are probably right. I think it has something to do with the programming as well. If I had a force meter I could verify but by feel, sitting on a flat surface stopped, move the wheel back and forth through the dead spot (if you have it), then disengage ESC and move the wheel the same. It is a noticeably harder to turn the wheel. The Elctro-Hydraulic Power Steering pump applies "variable" amounts of torque and it would seem the logic that controls this is FUBAR. They should be able to increase the amount of torque assist the pump gives you when driving with ESC on or just give us a constant if they cant figure it out.

Currently waiting on a call back on my star case, going on 72 business hours since initial contact with no response from my assigned person... yay!

 

[COBoarder]

Can confirm, 2020 JLU Altitude no lift stock 18's, checking in with loose steering and hard pull to the right. Dealer told me it was normal until I ripped into the service writer and showed him the video I made. That's when he magically found some things he could look at. They did the TSB 19-002-19 "Air in the steering dampner" and told me that was all they could do. Thankfully that fixed the hard pull to the right. 1,000 Miles on it so far and its scary on the Interstates in a curve or tight lane. Under 50mph its manageable, although exhausting to keep it in the lane. Just don't take your eyes off the road for a second otherwise you will be well out of your lane.



You are probably right. I think it has something to do with the programming as well. If I had a force meter I could verify but by feel, sitting on a flat surface stopped, move the wheel back and forth through the dead spot (if you have it), then disengage ESC and move the wheel the same. It is a noticeably harder to turn the wheel. The Elctro-Hydraulic Power Steering pump applies "variable" amounts of torque and it would seem the logic that controls this is FUBAR. They should be able to increase the amount of torque assist the pump gives you when driving with ESC on or just give us a constant if they cant figure it out.

Currently waiting on a call back on my star case, going on 72 business hours since initial contact with no response from my assigned person... yay!

I agree with your assessment that the ESC changes the feel.

I have the Sahara with Selec-Trac and when I turn that on the steering feels a lot stiffer and the dead spot mostly goes away. When the dead spot is really annoying me or staying in my lane is real important, I'll switch to 4H-Auto for more control.

 

[Rdmitch]

Excellent, enjoy the ride and the wonderful features. Tops off in a few months !

 

[flightace47]

I tried the disabling TC/ESC trick this evening on my way home from work. The effect is noticeable to me.

When returning the wheel to center on the highway I no longer have to counter-correct the continued steering I normally experience in the original direction. Much easier to deal with bumps/irregularities with TC off. In the parking lot at work, my initial attempts to turn the wheel were the same as having TC on. When I got home, turning the wheel while stationary was indeed more difficult than it had been before.

I had my wife give it a try when I got home (without turning engine off) and she could immediately tell it was different/better. After a few miles, I turned TC back on and she noted the original behavior coming back right away.

Part way home with her still driving, I sneakily turned it back off while she was distracted and she continued to complain about the steering feel.

To me, there’s either some placebo effect going on for both of us, or it takes some time for the pressure to renormalize at the “TC off” level.

I’m inclined to believe the latter because it took some time to stabilize for me on the way home after cycling it on/off.

It would be useful if a few other folks with the steering “problem” could try this out and report back. Leaving TC off is not an acceptable solution to me and would trigger a follow-up trip to the dealer to see if they can flash it.

I don’t think I have the AE box by the way (June/July 2019 build JLUR), but have not had a chance to dig around to confirm it. My Jeep has had its stabilizer replaced with the upgraded version that has stiffer bushings.

 

[Asylum]

I tried the disabling TC/ESC trick this evening on my way home from work. The effect is noticeable to me.

When returning the wheel to center on the highway I no longer have to counter-correct the continued steering I normally experience in the original direction. Much easier to deal with bumps/irregularities with TC off. In the parking lot at work, my initial attempts to turn the wheel were the same as having TC on. When I got home, turning the wheel while stationary was indeed more difficult than it had been before.

I had my wife give it a try when I got home (without turning engine off) and she could immediately tell it was different/better. After a few miles, I turned TC back on and she noted the original behavior coming back right away.

Part way home with her still driving, I sneakily turned it back off while she was distracted and she continued to complain about the steering feel.

To me, there’s either some placebo effect going on for both of us, or it takes some time for the pressure to renormalize at the “TC off” level.

I’m inclined to believe the latter because it took some time to stabilize for me on the way home after cycling it on/off.

It would be useful if a few other folks with the steering “problem” could try this out and report back. Leaving TC off is not an acceptable solution to me and would trigger a follow-up trip to the dealer to see if they can flash it.

I don’t think I have the AE box by the way (June/July 2019 build JLUR), but have not had a chance to dig around to confirm it. My Jeep has had its stabilizer replaced with the upgraded version that has stiffer bushings.

I think you are getting off track here (no pun intended). This is NOT A FIX and please DO NOT DRIVE AROUND WITH ESC OFF. I don’t know if this will fix the tracking, but it would seem logical to assume that with the proper programming the pump can apply a greater amount of torque than what it currently does ESC on or off. If that is the case then it can be increased to alleviate some, if not all the steering dead spot some of us experience. It also seems like the purpose of ESC is being taken away by their variable steering assist.

I tried to find a good description of what variable steering assist does this is the best I could find:

“Speed-sensing steering uses input from various sensors and computer modules to determine how much power assist should be applied to the steering input. The amount of assist required decreases as the vehicle speed increases, and the system responds appropriately. This allows the driver of the vehicle to steer with ease during slow, parking lot speed maneuvers by giving maximum steering assist, while offering a better feel for the road at higher speeds by reducing the amount of power assist provided.”

Source: https://itstillruns.com/speedsensing-steering-mean-12199365.html

If you care to read up on ESC it this is a good starting spot:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/esc_fr_03_2007.pdf

Scroll to page 31 or use the find feature and search for the General Principles of ESC System Operation.

Personally, I’m done putting in effort to fix my vehicle that is under warranty and with the dealership saying there is nothing more to do and FCA’s Star Case not returning my phone calls I’m going to pursue legal avenues.

 

[flightace47]

Asylum,

I’m actually just asking for a few more people to run the experiment to see if they feel any difference, not suggesting that people start driving with ESC/TC off as part of their normal routine.

It’s actually not the end of the world to turn off ESC. You don’t lose ABS, which is the most critical safety system for drivers that don’t have experience with threshold braking and how steering and braking actions affect available grip.

Also, ESC is a separate notion from variable steering assist. ESC/TC systems monitor wheel speed, yaw rates, steering input angle, and a whole host of other variables. They generally drive application of the brakes at each individual corner (depending on complexity), as well as regulate engine power to help the driver maintain control in situations where they are losing or have already lost control of the vehicle.

As far as I understand, ESC does not kick in during normal driving conditions. It has to be turned off for some off road situations when you’re trying to unstick yourself precisely because it interferes with power delivery to the wheels.

I was actually surprised to read here that turning off ESC modified the steering feel. I can only guess that turning off ESC disables variable power assist and locks the assist level to some configured setting instead of the computer adjusting it for conditions.

Also, I actually believe that turning the power assist _down_ is what improves steering feel and behavior. This would make it harder to move the wheel off center and improve straight tracking or at least the feel for the driver. This correlates with the increase in force required to turn the wheel while stationary in a parking lot with ESC off (assuming it actually disables variable assist like we’re hypothesizing).

I agree that we shouldn’t have to be diagnosing this problem ourselves, but I think that developing an understanding of what’s going on would be beneficial for us and FCA when it comes to getting dealers to fix the actual issue.

To me, it sounds like it is a software problem akin to the steering “feel” complaints you’ll find if you search the sports car oriented forums about the introduction of electric power steering and even variable steering assist. Each manufacturer had problems following the first few years after introduction and it took a very long time to get it right.

For our JLs, I suppose the feel issue is exacerbated by not having rack and pinion steering, and so we wander around the lanes.

 

[Encycloman]

Some of us want answers to legitimate questions. The JL I just paid over $60k for handles like a hog on the highway, and that is unacceptable.

What do you mean "like a hog" … mine chugs down the road very well, corners well, and is smooth to drive. How is yours different?

 

[Encycloman]

What do you mean "like a hog" … mine chugs down the road very well, corners well, and is smooth to drive. How is yours different?

I DID swap out the electric steering (awful) for a really good heavy duty hydraulic steering syste, and wow - what a difference. Plus, I do not have to worry about electrical malfunctions or overheating.

 

[hubble]

What do you mean "like a hog" … mine chugs down the road very well, corners well, and is smooth to drive. How is yours different?

LOL, you must have missed the first 5 thousand pages...........

 

[Encycloman]

LOL, you must have missed the first 5 thousand pages...........

very funny. trying to respond to one specific comment

 

[Brandon3333]

So let me understand this. You had a shitty driving Jeep. You hated it and went through all the hassle to get Jeep to buy it back and then you bought another shitty driving Jeep and now you are ok with it and just going to wait for a “real fix? Oy vey

I guess that's about right. After battling this for 5 months, I simply traded in a problem for a less severe problem. That's really the summary of it all. I got out of it a brand new one, better deal, new warranty, better rate, a couple of extra options, and Rubi that pulls far less than the first one.

 

[Rdmitch]

I guess that's about right. After battling this for 5 months, I simply traded in a problem for a less severe problem. That's really the summary of it all. I got out of it a brand new one, better deal, new warranty, better rate, a couple of extra options, and Rubi that pulls far less than the first one.

makes perfect sense to me. Get rid of the defective one, test drive other ones until you find one that drives
properly and buy it.
Then you have a jeep you like that drives the way you expect.

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