Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[californiajeeping]

I went out and just checked with my torque wrench just to be sure. Everything is nice and tight as it should be.The cotter pins were bent like they were off once before so I believe they did check as they stated they did. The dealership is fine (they even put on the damper correctly!) but their communication is awful. That's why I'm not sure what to do next. The Jeep is great and the steering is the only issue I have, not like others who have all sorts of weirdness going on. Just frustrating, especially when I drive my 20 year old TJ and it steers better.

You can go to Firestone and pay $19 for an alignment report (report only, no adjustments for that price) to document your baseline alignment stats. You want your caster to be as close to 6.0 as possible - only adjustable via longer LCAs or adjustable LCAs). One possible theory is that the original welding problems they had in mfg is also related to inconsistent welding locations, thus causing varying angles / geometry and resulting in some JLs to have steering issues and some don't. Alignment adjustments, longer LCAs will correct some of the time as proved throughout this steering thread, some only helps a bit, and others not at all. Some troubleshooting includes:

1. Test drive in 4H in the appropriate 4H driving conditions. Notice how drastically the steering changes (for the better). This is just for reference in steering, not a fix.

2. Have someone sit in the drivers seat, have them move the steering wheel left and right back and forth over and over within the "excessive play" zone while the Jeep is running. Crawl under and look at the steering box with a flashlight. Notice any delay between the steering column and pitman arm movement. One time fast back and forth and one time slow on the steering wheel movement so you can observe the steering box better.Be sure to trust the person not to put it from park to drive while you are under it. lol If you can, video it on your phone. Just be super careful due to moving parts. If you have never crawled under a running vehicle (in park of course) before, this is not recommended. If you see a lot of slop/delay, this echoes the same info in the Star Case that shows the techs how to bench test the steering box for this same slop. Some minimal slop is expected and normal. You can crawl under other JLs at the dealership and compare the difference. This isolates the problem to the steering box. Setting your toe to the max helps put pressure on the steering box, which can mask the problem (which can be a legit fix for some as long as the JL steering problem doesn't return).

3. Some people say the problem is worse or no different after getting the AE steering gear box. Check to make sure they replaced the one use time bolt that connects the steering column to the steering box. If they didn't, that can cause it to be worse. The bolt is a $3 retail part.

4. Remove the steering stabilizer and test drive without it. This will eliminate the stabilizer as a problem, but it could be one of multiple fixes. This is something long time Jeep mechanics always do to prevent going on wild goose chases while troubleshooting Jeep steering problems.

5. Be sure to check the torque on the sway bars as well. There is a different thread where people are reporting loose sway bar connections.

6. And of course test different tire pressure levels, which is also masks the steering problems by putting more pressure on the steering, eliminating some of the slop. And again, this could be a good fix as well.

7. Have someone else drive your JL while you follow behind them in a different vehicle. Notice if you see the "drunk driving" style of steering corrections or not. Every time I see another JL, I try to follow behind them (not making it too obvious) for a few miles to see if they are swaying. So far, about 20% look like they are drunk driving. 80% are straight as an arrow. I have yet to see a JK, TJ, etc. look like they are drunk driving. If you are lucky enough, have your dealership try this test. Have tech 1 drive your JL, have tech 2 in a chase vehicle with you in it and observe. This should help with the list of evidence that there IS a problem and it isn't a F'n "Jeep thing".

In most cases, it is a combination of different things that fixes the steering issues, like a combination lock requires that you dial in all 4 or 6 digits or it won't work.

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[powelld353]

You can go to Firestone and pay $19 for an alignment report (report only, no adjustments for that price) to document your baseline alignment stats. You want your caster to be as close to 6.0 as possible - only adjustable via longer LCAs or adjustable LCAs). One possible theory is that the original welding problems they had in mfg is also related to inconsistent welding locations, thus causing varying angles / geometry and resulting in some JLs to have steering issues and some don't. Alignment adjustments, longer LCAs will correct some of the time as proved throughout this steering thread, some only helps a bit, and others not at all. Some troubleshooting includes:

1. Test drive in 4H in the appropriate 4H driving conditions. Notice how drastically the steering changes (for the better). This is just for reference in steering, not a fix.

2. Have someone sit in the drivers seat, have them move the steering wheel left and right back and forth over and over within the "excessive play" zone while the Jeep is running. Crawl under and look at the steering box with a flashlight. Notice any delay between the steering column and pitman arm movement. One time fast back and forth and one time slow on the steering wheel movement so you can observe the steering box better.Be sure to trust the person not to put it from park to drive while you are under it. lol If you can, video it on your phone. Just be super careful due to moving parts. If you have never crawled under a running vehicle (in park of course) before, this is not recommended. If you see a lot of slop/delay, this echoes the same info in the Star Case that shows the techs how to bench test the steering box for this same slop. Some minimal slop is expected and normal. You can crawl under other JLs at the dealership and compare the difference. This isolates the problem to the steering box. Setting your toe to the max helps put pressure on the steering box, which can mask the problem (which can be a legit fix for some as long as the JL steering problem doesn't return).

3. Some people say the problem is worse or no different after getting the AE steering gear box. Check to make sure they replaced the one use time bolt that connects the steering column to the steering box. If they didn't, that can cause it to be worse. The bolt is a $3 retail part.

4. Remove the steering stabilizer and test drive without it. This will eliminate the stabilizer as a problem, but it could be one of multiple fixes. This is something long time Jeep mechanics always do to prevent going on wild goose chases while troubleshooting Jeep steering problems.

5. Be sure to check the torque on the sway bars as well. There is a different thread where people are reporting loose sway bar connections.

6. And of course test different tire pressure levels, which is also masks the steering problems by putting more pressure on the steering, eliminating some of the slop. And again, this could be a good fix as well.

7. Have someone else drive your JL while you follow behind them in a different vehicle. Notice if you see the "drunk driving" style of steering corrections or not. Every time I see another JL, I try to follow behind them (not making it too obvious) for a few miles to see if they are swaying. So far, about 20% look like they are drunk driving. 80% are straight as an arrow. I have yet to see a JK, TJ, etc. look like they are drunk driving. If you are lucky enough, have your dealership try this test. Have tech 1 drive your JL, have tech 2 in a chase vehicle with you in it and observe. This should help with the list of evidence that there IS a problem and it isn't a F'n "Jeep thing".

In most cases, it is a combination of different things that fixes the steering issues, like a combination lock requires that you dial in all 4 or 6 digits or it won't work.

Wow! Thanks for the very in-depth reply. Much appreciated.
I think your idea of going to get the alignment checked is a good one, don't trust the dealership in telling me they adjusted the Toe.
1. I've done this and noticed no difference in the steering.
2. Done this as well. There is lag "slop" from where the steering wheel is moved vs when the pitman moves. Not sure if I could get the dealership to bench test the AE box and adjust as needed. Maybe with JeepCares they may be willing.
3. I have the AE box (verified). The bolt I'm not sure of. Good point, I'll check.
4. I guess I could try this but I do have the latest V41 recall AE stabilizer.
5. All torque was checked (by dealership and by me) and is within spec.
6. Done this too. It's best at 32psi but still I have about 2-2.5" of play.
7. Haven't tried this specifically but my wife and my daughter have driven it and without me even mentioning anything their first comments were on the steering. It's definitely not a "Jeep thing". I've driven Jeeps for 20 years and never had this much slop in the wheel. As I've stated before, my TJ steers better. I also have driven many JK's and not experienced this issue. They're not perfect but they are much better. The last JK I drove back in June was a 2017 and it drove fine and I purposely focused on the steering.

 

[JeepCares]

Wow! Thanks for the very in-depth reply. Much appreciated.
I think your idea of going to get the alignment checked is a good one, don't trust the dealership in telling me they adjusted the Toe.
1. I've done this and noticed no difference in the steering.
2. Done this as well. There is lag "slop" from where the steering wheel is moved vs when the pitman moves. Not sure if I could get the dealership to bench test the AE box and adjust as needed. Maybe with JeepCares they may be willing.
3. I have the AE box (verified). The bolt I'm not sure of. Good point, I'll check.
4. I guess I could try this but I do have the latest V41 recall AE stabilizer.
5. All torque was checked (by dealership and by me) and is within spec.
6. Done this too. It's best at 32psi but still I have about 2-2.5" of play.
7. Haven't tried this specifically but my wife and my daughter have driven it and without me even mentioning anything their first comments were on the steering. It's definitely not a "Jeep thing". I've driven Jeeps for 20 years and never had this much slop in the wheel. As I've stated before, my TJ steers better. I also have driven many JK's and not experienced this issue. They're not perfect but they are much better. The last JK I drove back in June was a 2017 and it drove fine and I purposely focused on the steering.

Hi Don,
I am sorry to hear about your continued steering concern. I did look into your previous case and see that it was closed as you believed your vehicle was performing better. I also see that your case manager requested you call if your concern returns. If you need any assistance getting a new case opened, feel free to send us a PM.
Alex
Jeep Cares

 

[powelld353]

Hi Don,
I am sorry to hear about your continued steering concern. I did look into your previous case and see that it was closed as you believed your vehicle was performing better. I also see that your case manager requested you call if your concern returns. If you need any assistance getting a new case opened, feel free to send us a PM.
Alex
Jeep Cares

Performing a little better I believe is how I stated it.
Actually is there a way I can get a different JeepCares associate? Didn't have the best "rapport" with the person I was dealing with.

 

[JeepCares]

Performing a little better I believe is how I stated it.
Actually is there a way I can get a different JeepCares associate? Didn't have the best "rapport" with the person I was dealing with.

Hi Don,
Our team does not decide which case managers get assigned to which cases, so, unfortunately, I am unable to say whether you would get the same case manager or not. If you do plan on continuing to work with your dealer and would like another case escalated, I would be happy to do so.
Alex
Jeep Cares

 

[californiajeeping]

Wow! Thanks for the very in-depth reply. Much appreciated.
I think your idea of going to get the alignment checked is a good one, don't trust the dealership in telling me they adjusted the Toe.
1. I've done this and noticed no difference in the steering.
2. Done this as well. There is lag "slop" from where the steering wheel is moved vs when the pitman moves. Not sure if I could get the dealership to bench test the AE box and adjust as needed. Maybe with JeepCares they may be willing.
3. I have the AE box (verified). The bolt I'm not sure of. Good point, I'll check.
4. I guess I could try this but I do have the latest V41 recall AE stabilizer.
5. All torque was checked (by dealership and by me) and is within spec.
6. Done this too. It's best at 32psi but still I have about 2-2.5" of play.
7. Haven't tried this specifically but my wife and my daughter have driven it and without me even mentioning anything their first comments were on the steering. It's definitely not a "Jeep thing". I've driven Jeeps for 20 years and never had this much slop in the wheel. As I've stated before, my TJ steers better. I also have driven many JK's and not experienced this issue. They're not perfect but they are much better. The last JK I drove back in June was a 2017 and it drove fine and I purposely focused on the steering.

They may have adjusted the toe, but they most likely didn't fine tune it. They probably just put it "in spec". I first went to Firestone and purchased the lifetime alignment. Then I had them adjust the toe at 5 different settings (extreme ends of the JL spec, one in the middle, etc.) and I test drove it each time, made notes, then they adjusted it back to one of the ones that worked best for my particular JL. The only way to fine tune the toe setting to real world steering is to test it between each setting. Jeep dealerships will not do this for some reason. I asked Firestone before I purchased the lifetime alignment package if they would be ok with this procedure. They thought it was a very interesting idea and were actually interested in the results. It seems a waste of money to get the lifetime alignment deal when the only alignment adjustment on a Wrangler is toe, but it was worth it to dial in the exact toe setting that helped stop the wandering. Less wandering = less need to constantly correct the steering.

On the V41 steering stabilizer. I had mine changed too, and it caused problems. Then I got a 2nd V41 Steering stabilizer and the new symptom went away (pulling to the right). So there are new-bad ones, like anything else in parts.

 

[powelld353]

Hi Don,
Our team does not decide which case managers get assigned to which cases, so, unfortunately, I am unable to say whether you would get the same case manager or not. If you do plan on continuing to work with your dealer and would like another case escalated, I would be happy to do so.
Alex
Jeep Cares

Will do!! Thanks....

 

[SleepEatJeepRepeat]

Hey guys i have been having loose steering at highway speed, i took it in but the dealer says there is nothing wrong, and no recalls on the 2020.. so basically .. here is your car back.. good luck.. I am scheduled to have a 1.5" teraflex spacer lift, and 35" tires and 17x9 wheels installed tomorrow.. should i delay this and push harder on the steering? if i get the mods done will they not support the warranty request on the steering? need some advice

 

[jmcdtucson]

I’m still in the middle of this process, but I’d recommend getting your alignment numbers to see what the caster is and fix the toe if needed (mine was way off from the lot).

Also check the components for torque. My sway links were too loose and that made a difference.

Good luck!

What are the torque values for the sway bar links? I can't seem to find those anywhere.

 

[Rdmitch]

Hey guys i have been having loose steering at highway speed, i took it in but the dealer says there is nothing wrong, and no recalls on the 2020.. so basically .. here is your car back.. good luck.. I am scheduled to have a 1.5" teraflex spacer lift, and 35" tires and 17x9 wheels installed tomorrow.. should i delay this and push harder on the steering? if i get the mods done will they not support the warranty request on the steering? need some advice

Many have loose steering and I guess that’s considered “normal “. If there is no wobble, wandering or steering problem and you are pleased with the way it drives then there is no harm in doing your lift. However, if there is a steering problem or other suspension issue I would hold off on any aftermarket changes as they can easily blame the problem on that modification and walk away from future service relative to your problem.

 

[Rusty Teeth]

Hey guys i have been having loose steering at highway speed, i took it in but the dealer says there is nothing wrong, and no recalls on the 2020.. so basically .. here is your car back.. good luck.. I am scheduled to have a 1.5" teraflex spacer lift, and 35" tires and 17x9 wheels installed tomorrow.. should i delay this and push harder on the steering? if i get the mods done will they not support the warranty request on the steering? need some advice

Take video of the sloppy play try get speed and street in video. I just got the service mgr to see my video and now he wants to do something with it. Mine has been back 4x

 

[Rdmitch]

Take video of the sloppy play try get speed and street in video. I just got the service mgr to see my video and now he wants to do something with it. Mine has been back 4x

Don’t plan on any miracles to come from that.
<———————-

 

[SleepEatJeepRepeat]

But still the question should I delay my lift and tires??

 

[Rdmitch]

But still the question should I delay my lift and tires??

YES, until your totally satisfied with the vehicle don’t screw with anything that shifts the problem to you.

 

[kobejo34]

But still the question should I delay my lift and tires??

they can’t and won’t fix it either way so enjoy it if you can

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