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Looks Like Ford Bronco is Serious About Taking on the Wrangler

Will you consider the new Bronco?


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Indio

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You're mixing in a whole bunch of variables there....from TVM and inflation to questionable reliability improvements considering the associated increases in complexity and cost of components as well as repairs.

One thing's certain...if you're someone looking at vehicles based on the "payment"....you likely cannot really "afford" that vehicle.
Well yeah, there are a number of variables, that's why I brought it up in terms of the idea price doesn't matter anymore. And also, people who don't look at price, or look at monthly payments, I wouldn't call that a good move, regardless of what they could afford.

My reason for posting, was this idea that price doesn't matter, and to know how people dropping 50k, or sometimes 100k total in two vehicle households, are doing in terms of the financials when it comes out in the wash. Does price matter? If not should everyone go drop 50k on a vehicle?
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Rodeoflyer

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And anything with standard 35” and 37” inch tires is bound to have such horrendous MPG, that Ford is likely to restrict its volume either through pricing or production caps, to avoid tanking its CAFE numbers.
They got around that with the ecoboost...we shall see.. it will be interesting.
 

Sean K.

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Well yeah, there are a number of variables, that's why I brought it up in terms of the idea price doesn't matter anymore. And also, people who don't look at price, or look at monthly payments, I wouldn't call that a good move, regardless of what they could afford.

My reason for posting, was this idea that price doesn't matter, and to know how people dropping 50k, or sometimes 100k total in two vehicle households, are doing in terms of the financials when it comes out in the wash. Does price matter? If not should everyone go drop 50k on a vehicle?
And from what you've written, I believe we are in agreement...price DOES matter....
 

aldo98229

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If Ford expects to provide a direct challenge to Wrangler, Bronco is going to have to outperform JL on every dimension, on the road and the trail, convincingly and by a wide margin. Otherwise, they are wasting their time. Just like Xterra and FJ Cruiser did.

FCA put itself in this position by jacking up Wrangler prices so much. The price increases not only encouraged Ford to want a piece of the pie, but also made it easier for Ford to justify spending gobs of money to develop a Bronco that can take on Wrangler.
 

Brian0128

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All y’all who are down on the Bronco and complaining that this thread even exists; this is why:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2021-jeep-wrangler-updates-ford-bronco-report/

Competition is good. Can’t wait to see this battle heat up!!
From the article:

The Wrangler's alleged updates cover powertrain and technology, mostly. When it comes to the bits you can't see, the Sport model will be able to option the Selec-Trac transfer case that automatically shifts from two- to four-wheel drive depending on conditions, and Rubicon models get an updated Rock-Trac setup with similar capabilities. Wranglers with the 7-inch Uconnect infotainment screen will get tire-fill alerts that honk the horn when the tires are aired to the proper pressure, which will be mighty helpful for off-roaders adding pressure back into their tires after a day of rock crawling. Rubicon models will also be privy to the Off-Road Plus mode from the Gladiator, which permits higher vehicle speeds with the rear locker engaged.

On the tech front, the Wrangler Sport S will reportedly shift the Technology Group package from optional to standard equipment. This adds Uconnect's 7-inch screen with SiriusXM satellite radio and smartphone mirroring, in addition to a color display in the gauge cluster and automatic climate control. The Gladiator Rubicon's forward-facing camera will reportedly land on the Wrangler Sahara and Rubicon trims, too.
 

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Sean K.

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FCA put itself in this position by jacking up Wrangler prices so much. The price increases not only encouraged Ford to want a piece of the pie, but also made it easier for Ford to justify spending gobs of money to develop a Bronco that can take on Wrangler.

The price increases aren't just a whim by FCA; they reflect R&D costs of a new model, and much increased complexity of all the features the market is demanding, along with federally mandated emissions and safety regulations....along with an acceptable profit margin as it relates to increasing demand.

To claim they just raised the price simply because they could is far too simplistic.
 

Rodeoflyer

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Oh my, I completely forgot about the Tazer JL. I can lock/unlock the rear axle at any speed. unlock the swaybar up to 30mph at which point it unlocks under 30mph and then locks again w/o any intervention. I haven't tried (needed) to lock both in 4hi but I think you can do that as well. If you try to get into my hood, I have a lightshow like a police car (that's already been tested). I can deflate my tires to 10psi, no dashlights. I can completely disable TCS and ESC. The Bronco won't be able to compete just due to federal regs.
 

aldo98229

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The price increases aren't just a whim by FCA; they reflect R&D costs of a new model, and much increased complexity of all the features the market is demanding, along with federally mandated emissions and safety regulations....along with an acceptable profit margin as it relates to increasing demand.

To claim they just raised the price simply because they could is far too simplistic.
For decades Wrangler was the darling of off-roaders, students, beach goers and blue collar workers because you could buy a brand-new Jeep for under $20,000, have a ton of fun and look super cool doing it. Wrangler’s affordability was its greatest competitive deterrence. The competition simply couldn’t justify making the investment to develop a $20,000 Jeep fighter.

Automakers introduce bigger, better, more comfortable, more refined and more efficient versions of their existing models all the time and they don’t jack up prices 15% when they do it. The main reason Wrangler prices are through the roof is because after the bankruptcies, the singleminded dogma inside the BIG 3 became to “drive up transaction prices.” Marchionne even stated publicly that he wanted Jeep to follow Land Rover’s business model.
 
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Nickp01

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For decades Wrangler was the darling of off-roaders, students, beach goers and blue collar workers because you could buy a brand-new Jeep for under $20,000, have a ton of fun and look super cool doing it. Wrangler’s affordability was its greatest competitive deterrence. The competition simply couldn’t justify making the investment to develop a $20,000 Jeep fighter.

Automakers introduce bigger, better, more comfortable, more refined and more efficient versions of their existing models all the time and they don’t jack up prices 15% when they do it. The main reason Wrangler prices are through the roof is because after the bankruptcies, the singleminded dogma inside the BIG 3 became to “drive up transaction prices.” Marchionne even stated publicly that he wanted Jeep to follow Land Rover’s business model.
This is just me but as a capitalist through and through, and one that supports American jobs, Jeep and Ford can do what they need to ensure profitability and continuation of their brands.

Just for reference, there is a tire/wheel package for the F-150 that is more profitable for Ford than a high trim Ford Focus was. Like the entire vehicle. So yeah, I can’t blame them for not wanting to pick up pennies in front of a steamroller.

I find most people who complain about this have never run a business themselves and have no idea how expensive overhead, R&D, equipment, labor etc is. As someone who helped build a business (not mine but was there in the early stages) I honestly don’t know how Jeeps aren’t more expensive.
 

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ThirtyOne

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From the article:

The Wrangler's alleged updates cover powertrain and technology, mostly. When it comes to the bits you can't see, the Sport model will be able to option the Selec-Trac transfer case that automatically shifts from two- to four-wheel drive depending on conditions, and Rubicon models get an updated Rock-Trac setup with similar capabilities. Wranglers with the 7-inch Uconnect infotainment screen will get tire-fill alerts that honk the horn when the tires are aired to the proper pressure, which will be mighty helpful for off-roaders adding pressure back into their tires after a day of rock crawling. Rubicon models will also be privy to the Off-Road Plus mode from the Gladiator, which permits higher vehicle speeds with the rear locker engaged.

On the tech front, the Wrangler Sport S will reportedly shift the Technology Group package from optional to standard equipment. This adds Uconnect's 7-inch screen with SiriusXM satellite radio and smartphone mirroring, in addition to a color display in the gauge cluster and automatic climate control. The Gladiator Rubicon's forward-facing camera will reportedly land on the Wrangler Sahara and Rubicon trims, too.
We already knew all of this from the latest order guide. And i think FCA is realizing the Base configurations of their vehicles are just not competitive to what others are offering. To offer the 5inch uconnect in the Sport S (mid-tier) trim is a joke. Glad they are getting it. And i am sure the Bronco has something to do with it, but i am sure they have tons of market research and analytics to back it up.

The good news is they have been very aggressive adding options and special editions to the JL. Much more so than the JK at the same point in its lifecycle.

And we will continue to see things going from the Gladiator to the Wrangler and vice versa. They get to spread the r&d on anything from the front seat forward across both vehicles which is also a win for us.
 

aldo98229

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This is just me but as a capitalist through and through, and one that supports American jobs, Jeep and Ford can do what they need to ensure profitability and continuation of their brands.

Just for reference, there is a tire/wheel package for the F-150 that is more profitable for Ford than a high trim Ford Focus was. Like the entire vehicle. So yeah, I can’t blame them for not wanting to pick up pennies in front of a steamroller.

I find most people who complain about this have never run a business themselves and have no idea how expensive overhead, R&D, equipment, labor etc is. As someone who helped build a business (not mine but was there in the early stages) I honestly don’t know how Jeeps aren’t more expensive.
FYI - I am a business owner.

Besides, profits don't exist in a vacuum. Chasing quarterly profits for the sake of profits, like FCA does, normally ends up in tears. The better-run automakers, like Toyota, Honda, Subaru, balance profits along with retaining customers, and offering value for money.

The latter two are unheard of at FCA.
 

Sean K.

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For decades Wrangler was the darling of off-roaders, students, beach goers and blue collar workers because you could buy a brand-new Jeep for under $20,000, have a ton of fun and look super cool doing it. Wrangler’s affordability was its greatest competitive deterrence. The competition simply couldn’t justify making the investment to develop a $20,000 Jeep fighter.

Automakers introduce bigger, better, more comfortable, more refined and more efficient versions of their existing models all the time and they don’t jack up prices 15% when they do it. The main reason Wrangler prices are through the roof is because after the bankruptcies, the singleminded dogma inside the BIG 3 became to “drive up transaction prices.” Marchionne even stated publicly that he wanted Jeep to follow Land Rover’s business model.
We simply disagree that the primary reason for the cost increases is profit margin. I suspect if you look at the profit margin from the JK to the JL...it's only a few points higher at best when balanced against not only inflationary pressures, but the other things I already mentioned.

Proving that might be difficult since I'm unaware of FCA publishing their profit targets for specific vehicles but mathematically, it wouldn't seem to bear out.
 

aldo98229

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We simply disagree that the primary reason for the cost increases is profit margin. I suspect if you look at the profit margin from the JK to the JL...it's only a few points higher at best when balanced against not only inflationary pressures, but the other things I already mentioned.

Proving that might be difficult since I'm unaware of FCA publishing their profit targets for specific vehicles but mathematically, it wouldn't seem to bear out.
Indeed.

Here’s another piece of evidence: FCA continually increased the price of JK, well ahead of inflation, for 10 years on a vehicle whose development had already been paid for. This strongly suggests that it is more about profits than paying back development costs.

The thing is, regardless of whatever price —and profits— FCA wishes to get, ultimately it will only get what the market bears.

FCA jacked JL’s price 15% over JK, but dealer discounts grew larger too, to about 10% -12% off MSRP. Which suggests that despite FCA’s wishes, us consumers, collectively, view JL’s improvements over JK to be worth only 3%-5%. This is still a pretty sizable price increase, but more in line with the 2% increase a regular vehicle redesign normally gets.
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