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Looks Like Ford Bronco is Serious About Taking on the Wrangler

Will you consider the new Bronco?


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viper88

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Except Energy/Battery/Charging technology has not really improved. Electric motors have seen only fractional improvements in efficiency over the last 1/2 decade. Lithium batteries have been around for over 3 decades. They've gotten substantially more affordable, but they really don't weigh any less than they did 30 years ago and don't have a whole lot more capacity than they did back then.
Heating and cooling systems for these batteries have made large packs possible, but they haven't made them any lighter.

And it sounds great to swap car batteries like you do an electric drill, but that's simply not how it works. It would be more like swapping the fiberglass body, driver seat, and steering wheel to a complete other Chassis in a pit stop rather than "popping in" a new battery
China is probably the Global leader / influencer for electric vehicles. By 2025 20% of all cars sold in China have to be electric. I herd they are developing systems to swap out batteries at gas/service stations so there is no wait for charging. Tesla decided against it but China looks like it's going ahead?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...v-battery-swap-technology-tesla-has-cooled-on
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Toycrusher

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China is probably the Global leader / influencer for electric vehicles. By 2025 20% of all cars sold in China have to be electric. I herd they are developing systems to swap out batteries at gas/service stations so there is no wait for charging. Tesla decided against it but China looks like it's going ahead?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...v-battery-swap-technology-tesla-has-cooled-on
That article is about a something they "want" to implement. They have not yet been able to accomplish it, and that's because the automakers and recharge stations are government owned. How are you going to get an independent gas station owner to go along with your plans. Who is going to pay for their infrastructure. And how much is the end-user ie. Electric Car Driver going to be expected to pay to swap his battery pack? Sure, the electricity is cheap, but how much is that station owner going to have to charge to pay Pablo to perform the swap, big insurance to cover the liability of doing so, and then pay Uncle Sam the property taxes for the street corner piece of real estate?

Your EV sales aren't going to "take-off" when reality hits that it's going to cost $195 for your 300 mile battery swap compared to $30 for a tank of gas in your Honda Civic
 

beaups

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Except Energy/Battery/Charging technology has not really improved. Electric motors have seen only fractional improvements in efficiency over the last 1/2 decade. Lithium batteries have been around for over 3 decades. They've gotten substantially more affordable, but they really don't weigh any less than they did 30 years ago and don't have a whole lot more capacity than they did back then.
Heating and cooling systems for these batteries have made large packs possible, but they haven't made them any lighter.
This is not true. I would suggest you research energy density improvements on an annual basis. You'll find that even the relatively mature Li-ion technologies are seeing ~10% energy density increases every year. It doesn't take a visionary to see what that means 5-10 years from now. And we aren't even accounting for any breakthrough technologies that may come.
 

DaveNH

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The problem with battery swapping, is that to make it work large scale, it needs to be standardized.

In other consumer electronics, lithium is standard, but there are large differences in battery form factor. This isn't a big problem within a brand's ecosystem, but for general transportation it's a killer.

If the battery pack has to be standardized across brands and models, that reduces the "market" to largely cosmetic differences. And there's little room there as well, as the ever more stringent safety requirements have dictated certain design trends, and many cars already look alike.

The best chance for wide adoption of EV is a battery breakthrough, most likely if a workable flow battery can be developed.

These typically have low power density but I've read of prototypes using a thicker fluid which has the potential for more capacity.

This could better work within the current transportation infrastructure of liquid fuels. "Refueling" would consist of draining the spent electrolytes and refilling.
 
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chacomaya

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Ther problem with battery swapping, is that to make it work large scale, it needs to be standardized.

In other consumer electronics, lithium uhs standard, but there are large differences in battery form factor. This isn't a big problem within a brand's ecosystem, but for general transportation it's a killer.

If the battery pack has to be standardized across brands and models, that reduces the "market" to largely cosmetic differences. And there's little room there as well, as the ever more stringent safety requirements have dictated certain design trends, and many cars already look alike.

The best chance for wide adoption of EV is a battery breakthrough, most likely if a workable flow battery can be developed.

These typically have low power density but I've read of prototypes using a thicker fluid which has the potential for more capacity.

This could better work within the current transportation infrastructure of liquid fuels. "Refueling" would consist of draining the spent electrolytes and refilling.
This ^^^
 

Gringostarr

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And..............back on task, how many more days till Ford releases the Bronco at a show?
NY autoshow is April 10-19 so expect it towards the first two days of the show or ever a day or two before. Until the reveal happens I doubt we'll see many more leaks though since there is more than likely a press embargo against posting any of them now.
 

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A electric 24 hour race is not out of the realm of possibility. Energy/battery/ charging technology is improving quickly. Fast charging, swappable power supplies / batteries during pit stops would be possible if thermo efficiency is not a problem. Electric is generally considered more reliable.

Never say never…the fast lap on the Ring is held by a electric car.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...e-nurburgring-faster-than-any-production-car/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/video-watch-nio-ep9s-645-ring-record

Another Pikes Peak record set by a electric VW.

http://drupal.prod.autoweek.com/art...b-overall-record-romain-dumas-volkswagen-id-r
Let me know when they charge as fast as I can fill up at the pumps. lol Had this debate with someone recently. I mentioned the charge time and they said a half hour...I ask is that at empty? They didnt know. I checked it and it appears up to 12 hours. lol

When they fix the fast charge I am all in and by fast I mean as fast as I can fill my gas vehicles. Electric would be GREAT if the battery gets sorted. Same for my dirt bike. Except what do I do if I run out of juice in the bush.....??
 

viper88

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That article is about a something they "want" to implement. They have not yet been able to accomplish it, and that's because the automakers and recharge stations are government owned. How are you going to get an independent gas station owner to go along with your plans. Who is going to pay for their infrastructure. And how much is the end-user ie. Electric Car Driver going to be expected to pay to swap his battery pack? Sure, the electricity is cheap, but how much is that station owner going to have to charge to pay Pablo to perform the swap, big insurance to cover the liability of doing so, and then pay Uncle Sam the property taxes for the street corner piece of real estate?
You make some good points. I don't know if it will catch on here? Thing is the US will not be the Worlds largest car market soon. The car industry is being influenced by other markets not by what we want in the US.

Other markets might be forces to follow because China is the largest car/electric car market in the world. Why does the, soon to be released, plug-in Wrangler have a 29 mile range? Why do most plug-in electric cars have a 30 mile electric only range? China.

We all know there is no Uncle Sam in China. Far from it. Almost everything in China is Government owned and influence. What China says, people in China do. If the Chinese government wants battery swapping there will be battery swapping. lol.
 

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viper88

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Let me know when they charge as fast as I can fill up at the pumps. lol Had this debate with someone recently. I mentioned the charge time and they said a half hour...I ask is that at empty? They didnt know. I checked it and it appears up to 12 hours. lol

When they fix the fast charge I am all in and by fast I mean as fast as I can fill my gas vehicles. Electric would be GREAT if the battery gets sorted. Same for my dirt bike. Except what do I do if I run out of juice in the bush.....??
Under "ideal" conditions 120 miles in 8 minutes. That system is probably far from readily available. I am sure it will improve though. Only a mater of time.

https://newatlas.com/abb-350kw-fast-charger/54377/

https://insideevs.com/news/338777/lets-look-at-fast-charging-curves-for-popular-electric-cars/
 

Stampede.Offroad

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NY autoshow is April 10-19 so expect it towards the first two days of the show ....
It's going to be this month (March). They told a bunch of dealers in Vegas, and apparently that news didn't stay in Vegas. :clap:

It looks like the manual the Bronco will be packing is going to offer a lot more potential than the aged 6-speed in the Wrangler.

MTI550 7 Speed Manual Transmission With Low Crawler Gear Revealed

With 7 forward gears over potentially a spread of 11 (compared to Jeeps 7.125) it could have good overdrive and good crawling. It can handle 600Nm / 442ftlb of torque so it could be paired with their 3L V6 diesel or any variety of more powerful engines than Jeeps 6sp at 272ftlb can take (good for higher towing and payload too to the point it could probably handle a Superduty Tremor).

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6MTI550_Storyboard_20191010_wo_contact 300ppi.png


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7MT screen SO.png


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You make some good points. I don't know if it will catch on here? Thing is the US will not be the Worlds largest car market soon. The car industry is being influenced by other markets not by what we want in the US.

Other markets might be forces to follow because China is the largest car/electric car market in the world. Why does the, soon to be released, plug-in Wrangler have a 29 mile range? Why do most plug-in electric cars have a 30 mile electric only range? China.

We all know there is no Uncle Sam in China. Far from it. Almost everything in China is Government owned and influence. What China says, people in China do. If the Chinese government wants battery swapping there will be battery swapping. lol.
As a Tesla model 3 owner I think an electric drivetrain is far superior to an ICE vehicle. Incredible torque, fantastic power. A hemi would pale compared to a good electric motor setup in a Wrangler. I hope my new JL is my last gas powered vehicle. Battery swapping would not work but battery technology is getting better and charging options are improving. Even with 250kw charging, 30 minute, 90% charging is not adequate- but that too will improve. Buckle your seatbelt - the future is electric.
 

viper88

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viper88

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As a Tesla model 3 owner I think an electric drivetrain is far superior to an ICE vehicle. Incredible torque, fantastic power. A hemi would pale compared to a good electric motor setup in a Wrangler. I hope my new JL is my last gas powered vehicle. Battery swapping would not work but battery technology is getting better and charging options are improving. Even with 250kw charging, 30 minute, 90% charging is not adequate- but that too will improve. Buckle your seatbelt - the future is electric.
Totally agree.

It will be interesting to see what China does electric car and battery wise?
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