Looks Like Ford Bronco is Serious About Taking on the Wrangler

Will you consider the new Bronco?


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viper88

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I have a model 3 Tesla AWD that does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and 12 second quarter. Muscle is being redefined. I still love the V8 muscle, but electric is the future of fast cars....
There are really fast electric cars now. More on the way everyday but the infrastructure/grid is not developed enough in most areas yet.

It will be a hard pill to swallow for the old school racing crowd but electric racing is going to be the norm one day. We will definitely see more electric racing sports in the future. Only a matter of time for electric drag racer.

Formula E is already here.

https://www.fiaformulae.com/
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viper88

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To me, muscle cars are more than hp. It's an attitude, image and character. I don't know that an EV could ever truly be a muscle car.
Totally agree. Something about the raw sounds of a ICE burbling, vibrations, smell, massive rumbling engines. Electric will have to program fake noise and vibration in. lol.
 

viper88

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Next it will be like slot-cars on a massive scale. 'Drivers' sitting in a lounge w/ a controller.
I can go one better. Virtual reality racing in simulators. lol. Kids already play video games. The video game processing power is getting more and more impressive.

Pro race car drivers have practice on simulators for decades to learn tracks.
 
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Toycrusher

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There are really fast electric cars now. More on the way everyday but the infrastructure/grid is not developed enough in most areas yet.

It will be a hard pill to swallow for the old school racing crowd but electric racing is going to be the norm one day. We will definitely see more electric racing sports in the future. Only a matter of time for electric drag racer.

Formula E is already here.

https://www.fiaformulae.com/
Sure sure. Let's see those electric racers pull 24 hours at LeMans.

Electric dragsters have been around for a long time. Much better application for electric as they only need about a 1 mile of range. That said, they can't even dream of touching ICE competitors
 

viper88

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Sure sure. Let's see those electric racers pull 24 hours at LeMans.

Electric dragsters have been around for a long time. Much better application for electric as they only need about a 1 mile of range. That said, they can't even dream of touching ICE competitors
A electric 24 hour race is not out of the realm of possibility. Energy/battery/ charging technology is improving quickly. Fast charging, swappable power supplies / batteries during pit stops would be possible if thermo efficiency is not a problem. Electric is generally considered more reliable.

Never say never…the fast lap on the Ring is held by a electric car.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...e-nurburgring-faster-than-any-production-car/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/video-watch-nio-ep9s-645-ring-record

Another Pikes Peak record set by a electric VW.

http://drupal.prod.autoweek.com/art...b-overall-record-romain-dumas-volkswagen-id-r
 
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Toycrusher

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A electric 24 hour race is not out of the realm of possibility. Energy/battery/ charging technology is improving quickly. Fast charging, swappable power supplies / batteries during pit stops would be possible if thermo efficiency is not a problem. Electric is generally considered more reliable.

Never say never…the fast lap on the Ring is held by a electric car.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...e-nurburgring-faster-than-any-production-car/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/video-watch-nio-ep9s-645-ring-record

Another Pikes Peak record set by a electric VW.

http://drupal.prod.autoweek.com/art...b-overall-record-romain-dumas-volkswagen-id-r
Except Energy/Battery/Charging technology has not really improved. Electric motors have seen only fractional improvements in efficiency over the last 1/2 decade. Lithium batteries have been around for over 3 decades. They've gotten substantially more affordable, but they really don't weigh any less than they did 30 years ago and don't have a whole lot more capacity than they did back then.
Heating and cooling systems for these batteries have made large packs possible, but they haven't made them any lighter.

And it sounds great to swap car batteries like you do an electric drill, but that's simply not how it works. It would be more like swapping the fiberglass body, driver seat, and steering wheel to a complete other Chassis in a pit stop rather than "popping in" a new battery
 

viper88

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Except Energy/Battery/Charging technology has not really improved. Electric motors have seen only fractional improvements in efficiency over the last 1/2 decade. Lithium batteries have been around for over 3 decades. They've gotten substantially more affordable, but they really don't weigh any less than they did 30 years ago and don't have a whole lot more capacity than they did back then.
Heating and cooling systems for these batteries have made large packs possible, but they haven't made them any lighter.

And it sounds great to swap car batteries like you do an electric drill, but that's simply not how it works. It would be more like swapping the fiberglass body, driver seat, and steering wheel to a complete other Chassis in a pit stop rather than "popping in" a new battery
China is probably the Global leader / influencer for electric vehicles. By 2025 20% of all cars sold in China have to be electric. I herd they are developing systems to swap out batteries at gas/service stations so there is no wait for charging. Tesla decided against it but China looks like it's going ahead?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...v-battery-swap-technology-tesla-has-cooled-on
 

Toycrusher

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China is probably the Global leader / influencer for electric vehicles. By 2025 20% of all cars sold in China have to be electric. I herd they are developing systems to swap out batteries at gas/service stations so there is no wait for charging. Tesla decided against it but China looks like it's going ahead?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...v-battery-swap-technology-tesla-has-cooled-on
That article is about a something they "want" to implement. They have not yet been able to accomplish it, and that's because the automakers and recharge stations are government owned. How are you going to get an independent gas station owner to go along with your plans. Who is going to pay for their infrastructure. And how much is the end-user ie. Electric Car Driver going to be expected to pay to swap his battery pack? Sure, the electricity is cheap, but how much is that station owner going to have to charge to pay Pablo to perform the swap, big insurance to cover the liability of doing so, and then pay Uncle Sam the property taxes for the street corner piece of real estate?

Your EV sales aren't going to "take-off" when reality hits that it's going to cost $195 for your 300 mile battery swap compared to $30 for a tank of gas in your Honda Civic
 

DaveNH

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Mandating production and sales targets always work, and has no economic consequences.
 

beaups

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Except Energy/Battery/Charging technology has not really improved. Electric motors have seen only fractional improvements in efficiency over the last 1/2 decade. Lithium batteries have been around for over 3 decades. They've gotten substantially more affordable, but they really don't weigh any less than they did 30 years ago and don't have a whole lot more capacity than they did back then.
Heating and cooling systems for these batteries have made large packs possible, but they haven't made them any lighter.
This is not true. I would suggest you research energy density improvements on an annual basis. You'll find that even the relatively mature Li-ion technologies are seeing ~10% energy density increases every year. It doesn't take a visionary to see what that means 5-10 years from now. And we aren't even accounting for any breakthrough technologies that may come.
 

DaveNH

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The problem with battery swapping, is that to make it work large scale, it needs to be standardized.

In other consumer electronics, lithium is standard, but there are large differences in battery form factor. This isn't a big problem within a brand's ecosystem, but for general transportation it's a killer.

If the battery pack has to be standardized across brands and models, that reduces the "market" to largely cosmetic differences. And there's little room there as well, as the ever more stringent safety requirements have dictated certain design trends, and many cars already look alike.

The best chance for wide adoption of EV is a battery breakthrough, most likely if a workable flow battery can be developed.

These typically have low power density but I've read of prototypes using a thicker fluid which has the potential for more capacity.

This could better work within the current transportation infrastructure of liquid fuels. "Refueling" would consist of draining the spent electrolytes and refilling.
 
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chacomaya

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Ther problem with battery swapping, is that to make it work large scale, it needs to be standardized.

In other consumer electronics, lithium uhs standard, but there are large differences in battery form factor. This isn't a big problem within a brand's ecosystem, but for general transportation it's a killer.

If the battery pack has to be standardized across brands and models, that reduces the "market" to largely cosmetic differences. And there's little room there as well, as the ever more stringent safety requirements have dictated certain design trends, and many cars already look alike.

The best chance for wide adoption of EV is a battery breakthrough, most likely if a workable flow battery can be developed.

These typically have low power density but I've read of prototypes using a thicker fluid which has the potential for more capacity.

This could better work within the current transportation infrastructure of liquid fuels. "Refueling" would consist of draining the spent electrolytes and refilling.
This ^^^
 

Gringostarr

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And..............back on task, how many more days till Ford releases the Bronco at a show?
NY autoshow is April 10-19 so expect it towards the first two days of the show or ever a day or two before. Until the reveal happens I doubt we'll see many more leaks though since there is more than likely a press embargo against posting any of them now.
 
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