Looks like Edelbrock is getting closer to production.

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
Our design team stuck with the 1320 for ease of manufacturing. Had they opted for the 1900 a new rotor housing would be required. The goal was to get to production ASAP.

As for calibration/tuning, I can provide specifics since this is proprietary info. However I can touch on some of your questions:
  • The EGR is taken into account especially since it is required for the EO.
  • Cam phasing has been adjusted to optimize combustion stability throughout the RPM range and optimize peak performance.
  • TCM updates are also included to improve overall drivability. I believe Edelbrock was the first and still the only supercharger manufacturer that even offers TCM updates for the JK as well.
  • Boost and accel pedal input are generally tied together in a positive displacement supercharger however we still utilize a vacuum controlled bypass actuator which mitigates response at low pedal percentages.
  • All OBD functions are retained like stock.
Understood on the IP issues. Thanks for taking the time to reply in full. Much appreciated.

The attention to cam-phasing answers the question to me on how you're able to get your 1320 output within 20lb/ft of the 1900 series kits, and between that and EGR being addressed, I would guess the drivability manners of your kit is probably superb, assuming correct parameters.

very compelling.





Advertisement

 

EForce-Tech

Active Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
56
Location
Torrance, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLRU 8AT, 2020 JT 6MT
Understood on the IP issues. Thanks for taking the time to reply in full. Much appreciated.

The attention to cam-phasing answers the question to me on how you're able to get your 1320 output within 20lb/ft of the 1900 series kits, and between that and EGR being addressed, I would guess the drivability manners of your kit is probably superb, assuming correct parameters.

very compelling.
Proper cam phasing is essential with a positive displacement supercharger especially when starting with a naturally aspirated operating system. I'm glad to hear we're keeping up with the competition considering their mechanical advantage. Not to play salesmen but the competition is NOT EO legal yet either. From what we've learned at the lab this likely means their final power figures should decrease. Peak HP might not take much of the hit but as they correct for emissions their gains "under the curve" will be affected. As for Edelbrock drivability, we spend a LOT of time and effort into maintaining stock-like manners. We validate driving scenarios such as stop and go, highway, elevation and towing before the kit is released.
 

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
Proper cam phasing is essential with a positive displacement supercharger especially when starting with a naturally aspirated operating system. I'm glad to hear we're keeping up with the competition considering their mechanical advantage. Not to play salesmen but the competition is NOT EO legal yet either. From what we've learned at the lab this likely means their final power figures should decrease. Peak HP might not take much of the hit but as they correct for emissions their gains "under the curve" will be affected. As for Edelbrock drivability, we spend a LOT of time and effort into maintaining stock-like manners. We validate driving scenarios such as stop and go, highway, elevation and towing before the kit is released.
interesting. That area under the curve is where the 1900 crushes the 1320...its only 20lb/ft peak, but it makes it sooner and carries longer. That said, it only looks about 10hp less peak number, so the actual advantage would be blunted if you're correct. That also tells me you ended up having to leave meat on the table to meet the compliance figures, so the 1320 still has more to give. I almost wonder if other folks went with the 1900 hoping to make higher peak tq with less boost to try and alter fueling requirements and limbo under the CARB requirements, and they are now finding it harder than expected.

last question- Is there a way to shorten the 2 week delay time of the ECU going back and forth? new/spare ecu etc?
 
Last edited:

EForce-Tech

Active Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
56
Location
Torrance, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLRU 8AT, 2020 JT 6MT
interesting. That area under the curve is where the 1900 crushes the 1320...its only 20lb/ft peak, but it makes it sooner and carries longer. That said, it only looks about 10hp less peak number, so the actual advantage would be blunted if you're correct. That also tells me you ended up having to leave meat on the table to meet the compliance figures, so the 1320 still has more to give. I almost wonder if other folks went with the 1900 hoping to make higher peak tq with less boost to try and alter fueling requirements and limbo under the CARB requirements, and they are now finding it harder than expected.

last question- Is there a way to shorten the 2 week delay time of the ECU going back and forth? new/spare ecu etc?
In reality the 1320 is more than enough for the stock 3.6 but we can't control the 'bigger is better' thought process for most.

"Leaving meat on the table" or producing a “conservative/safe” kit paint the wrong picture in my opinion. We are NOT consciously giving up power for reliability. We are maximizing the limitations of the OE components with the available airflow and fuel octane while meeting CARB’s emissions standards.

We advertise an 8-10 business day waiting period for the ECM unlock/calibration but in reality, more importantly when our instructions are followed, this is usually reduced to 5-6 days. The 8-10 business day quote is worst case for logistics, weather, etc. I am the person handling this process so consider this info solid.
 

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
In reality the 1320 is more than enough for the stock 3.6 but we can't control the 'bigger is better' thought process for most.
isnt that the truth.

"Leaving meat on the table" or producing a “conservative/safe” kit paint the wrong picture in my opinion. We are NOT consciously giving up power for reliability. We are maximizing the limitations of the OE components with the available airflow and fuel octane while meeting CARB’s emissions standards.
that's how I meant it...more could have been extracted but it would have prevented CARB cert.

We advertise an 8-10 business day waiting period for the ECM unlock/calibration but in reality, more importantly when our instructions are followed, this is usually reduced to 5-6 days. The 8-10 business day quote is worst case for logistics, weather, etc. I am the person handling this process so consider this info solid.
Great. Thanks much for the time and input on this thread. It's very helpful.
 

EForce-Tech

Active Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
56
Location
Torrance, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLRU 8AT, 2020 JT 6MT
isnt that the truth.



that's how I meant it...more could have been extracted but it would have prevented CARB cert.



Great. Thanks much for the time and input on this thread. It's very helpful.
Thanks for the good questions. We don't mind the conversation or providing info as long as it's constructive.
 

EForce-Tech

Active Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
56
Location
Torrance, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLRU 8AT, 2020 JT 6MT
On another note, since this has been a hot topic lately, Edelbrock is NOT closing. The company is merging with Comp Cams to create one major performance parts manufacturer. Design engineering and power train calibration (us) are leaving Torrance but have a new home in Cerritos, Ca. The rest of the company will be divided between the foundry in San Jacinto and existing Comp locations in Memphis, TN and Olive Branch, MS. All this moving will slow certain things down a bit but we'll be doing our best to make things work until the dust settles.
 

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
Thanks for the good questions. We don't mind the conversation or providing info as long as it's constructive.
agreed. Having direct access to part of a tech team for a product like this is amazing.

what can you share about TCM tuning? Especially for us Gladiator folks that seem to have more tq restriction down low?
 

EForce-Tech

Active Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
56
Location
Torrance, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLRU 8AT, 2020 JT 6MT
agreed. Having direct access to part of a tech team for a product like this is amazing.

what can you share about TCM tuning? Especially for us Gladiator folks that seem to have more tq restriction down low?
The 8AT is an all around significantly better trans than the JK's 5AT in stock configuration to say the least. We were so glad not to have to deal with the 5AT anymore. Our focus was shift scheduling adjustments due to the added TQ but extra attention was paid with towing scenarios in the JT, 7600lb tow rating. Again the goal being stock driving characteristics and preventing things like hanging shifts which plagued JK but we were able to overcome.
 

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
The 8AT is an all around significantly better trans than the JK's 5AT in stock configuration to say the least. We were so glad not to have to deal with the 5AT anymore. Our focus was shift scheduling adjustments due to the added TQ but extra attention was paid with towing scenarios in the JT, 7600lb tow rating. Again the goal being stock driving characteristics and preventing things like hanging shifts which plagued JK but we were able to overcome.
awesome. thanks.
 

AZDustMuncher

Well-Known Member
First Name
L.C.
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
217
Reaction score
106
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2018 4dr Rubicon, 2005 Turbo Silverado, 2004 Grand Cherokee Overland
While I’m sure the 1320 is plenty big enough for the 3.6 the deciding factor in between the Edlebock kit and the magnuson kit for me would be which kit has lower IAT’s with a lot of spirited driving. Size of the heat exchangers and cooling system would all factor into that. Everything being equal I would think the tvs1900 would run cooler at a given amount of boost because it would not need to turn as many rpm as the smaller supercharger.
 

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
While I’m sure the 1320 is plenty big enough for the 3.6 the deciding factor in between the Edlebock kit and the magnuson kit for me would be which kit has lower IAT’s with a lot of spirited driving. Size of the heat exchangers and cooling system would all factor into that. Everything being equal I would think the tvs1900 would run cooler at a given amount of boost because it would not need to turn as many rpm as the smaller supercharger.
The size of the heat exchanger combined with the coolant pump is handling that. You could look at a 1320 compressor map, but I cant imagine its in an inefficient zone on these engines at the boost it’s running. Id guess the actual temp difference would be negligible.

ultimately, the bigger concern is having a spark curve that’s correct.
 
Last edited:

AZDustMuncher

Well-Known Member
First Name
L.C.
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
217
Reaction score
106
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2018 4dr Rubicon, 2005 Turbo Silverado, 2004 Grand Cherokee Overland
The size of the heat exchanger combined with the coolant pump is handling that. You could look at a 1320 compressor map, but I cant imagine its in an inefficient zone on these engines at the boost it’s running. Id guess the actual temp difference would be negligible.

ultimately, the bigger concern is having a spark curve that’s correct.
So are you saying you know for a fact one is better than the other when it comes to IAT’s or that you know for a fact they are both the same? Obviously you want a good tune with either.
 

EForce-Tech

Active Member
First Name
Eddie
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
26
Reaction score
56
Location
Torrance, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLRU 8AT, 2020 JT 6MT
While I’m sure the 1320 is plenty big enough for the 3.6 the deciding factor in between the Edlebock kit and the magnuson kit for me would be which kit has lower IAT’s with a lot of spirited driving. Size of the heat exchangers and cooling system would all factor into that. Everything being equal I would think the tvs1900 would run cooler at a given amount of boost because it would not need to turn as many rpm as the smaller supercharger.
To provide some insight, the average IAT increase after a dyno pull was 12.6F. That's 3-5 WOT tests back to back with 30 second windows.

Our max tow testing with the Gladiator was a more extreme example. This testing was done at Baker Grade (6-7% grade) in the California desert with ambient temps of 110-112F and a 7400lb trailer. Baker Grade is used by the OE's to torture test cooling system components. We were at 50-100% throttle for 14-15 minutes and the average IAT's were 156F or roughly 46F over ambient. Considering the 110F ambient temp and extreme load we were happy with the intercooler systems performance.
 

Kurt0

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kurt
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
Gladiator Mojave
Occupation
IG Model and Influencer
So are you saying you know for a fact one is better than the other when it comes to IAT’s or that you know for a fact they are both the same? Obviously you want a good tune with either.
i dont know what the temps are. I just know what has been able to accomplished with the 1320 blower in other applications spinning *WAY* harder than Edelbrock is spinning it. You can pull a TVS1320 compressor map and see where it falls In the efficiency range and decide for yourself, and youll find the 1900 is less strained, but from what ive seen first hand, im saying it wont matter

i guess my primary point is dont get too wrapped about raw IAT’s if the product checks all the blocks. Even if the temps are hotter, it will only be slightly so, and a correct ignition curve and fuel enrichment curve makes it irrelevant.

This is just quick math in my head on the fly converting from lbs/min, but if you look at the compressor map below, we fall at ABOUT 1.5 on the y axis and ABOUT 900-1000 on the x axis, which is a beautiful efficiency range. @EForce-Tech correct me if wrong


98BD767C-53F2-40D9-BFCE-2451D537C9BB.gif


the 1320 is good for motors up to like 4.5L i think. The 1900 is what came stock in the CTS-V, and bigger than the high hp kit used for something like the Audi RS4. It’s * WAY* more blower than we need. Youll need connecting rods and pistons before you run out of blower on the 1320. Its a beast. I get the wanting bigger/badder, it gets me all the time too, especially on power. But a 1320 can rip, and im not sure i want to be a guy testing how big a blower i can get away with on a stock motor, but thats just me. The bigger kits may prove fine, i dunno. 🤷🏼‍♂️

hope that helps.
 
Last edited:

Advertisement




Freeland Jeep
 



Advertisement
Top