Looks like chip shortage is real, lot of closures at Toledo OH plant

[LuvHydro]

The chip shortage isn't new. I ordered my 2021 Sarhara 4xe December 1st, 2020 and received it April 3rd 2021. Four month wait a year ago due to chip shortage.

Your timing is perfect for me.
I ordered my Hella June 18, 2021 and picked it up Sept 30, 2021

I ordered my Hydro Dec 16, 2021 and hope it doesn't drop until mid-April of 22

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[LarryB]

COMPLETELY different chips made in completely different factories. The chips used in iPhones and the like are state-of-the-art, cutting edge designs with minimum size and maximum performance. The chips used in auto manufacturing are the equivalent of Intel Pentium II chips from over a decade ago.

https://fortune.com/2021/09/17/chip-makers-carmakers-time-get-out-semiconductor-stone-age/

We sell the same components to multiple car companies, Amazon (tablets), Samsung and others. And, many of the chips used are not actually sold to the car companies, but rather the manufacturer of the part. Magna and others use a combination of high-end digital chips and old, legacy analog ones. Finally, just because a chip is old, it does not mean that it is bad. Many legacy chips offer proven designs that can handle 5, 10 or 20 years in an automotive-grade environment. Many companies don’t want to experiment with unproven tech.

 

[VKSheridan]

About the only thing I somewhat disagree with is your view that it’ll redefine and reshape global interdependencies. Maybe somewhat by necessity, but overall people and governments tend to be pretty intractable and I don’t think this crisis will make them act smarter or more responsibly. Probably just more self serving and greedier at the cost of anyone else not wealthy enough to cut to the front of the line.

Your last sentence is exactly what I envision. We’ve all heard of shareholders, stakeholders and corporate strategists revising their thinking once they discovered the cost savings of Zoom meetings versus physical travel but that’s just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

The crisis has prompted several manufactures to explore the feasibility of empowering authorized distributors to manufacture replacement parts using 3D printing versus the OEM source, inventory and ship those parts. Dismissing the low cost to manufacture and the lucrative margin in providing print instructions in lieu of actual parts, the benefits are simply to great to ignore.

Imagine being an OEM relieved of the costs of manufacturing and material defects (warranty), the costs of packaging, storing, moving and maintaining obsolescent parts and all that goes with it.

As a consumer, imagine the distributor having the ability to manufacture almost any given part limited only by their access to the raw materials, energy and sophistication of printers.

Instead of raw materials competing for shipping channels with finished goods, they are unbound. Instead of sourcing from a third world country where consistency, quality and output is difficult to uphold, international trade of whole goods and the costs transport finished goods become extinct.

Think about the costs involved to produce and distribute an album which sold for $13.00. It was fragile from manufacturing, packaging, shipping, inventory, selling and ownership. That same album sells for over $13.00 today digitized with DRM and the only cost to the label is production and the data repository. Zero outsourcing, zero handling of physical product, zero supplier dictation of time to market. No more negotiating costs of paper, cellophane, vinyl, labor and marketing demo tracks. This innovation wasn’t the result of a global crisis like what we face, it was because Napster showed the labels just how simple digitized distribution was, ripe for better margins, minimal resources and accessibility that nobody could possibly envision.

Yes sir, I do think global interdependencies are in for an amazing transformation where costs are not enhanced by exploiting the impoverished but rather by industry learning, embracing and distinguishing society’s thirst for immediate gratification, reduction of waste, sustainability, and minimizing environmental impact. The very things that have something as simple as shoe laces on backorder at Costco today.

I’d be interested to hear what others have heard or even their opinions of what they believe will come about on “the other side” of this mess.

 

[karynm8621]

When you base most of your electronics manufacture in Asia to make cheaper product this is the problem. This is partly WHY we need to get back to domestic manufacturing. It hadn't been cost effective for many years to make semi components or even machine parts domestically.

We have learned the hard way that this HAS to happen to get back to normal. Taiwan who is a major player in chip making took serious hits between earthquakes and covid that it disrupted everything.

And to the point someone made about old chips vs new chips in phones. This is actually the sector we supply. I work in an engineering group that designs and supplies OEM tooling for chipmaking, flat panel medical etc.

It's partially correct to say that there should be older technology chips for these vehicles. You have to understand how complex wafer production is though and how many tools go into making a wafer, old or new. The biggest difference in newer tech is that the transistors get smaller so their are more of them on the wafer. That said, the older Fabs still need to be maintained, the supply on hand wasn't endless and as legacy products sunset those tools need to be updated with the newer technologies. We don't coninue to make the older tooling after a period, it just isn't cost effective.

The problem we arrive at is that while we supply semi we also need to be a customer and in that our supply chains get strained. It's a viscous circle right now and it is forecast to take some time to turn around.

About the only thing I somewhat disagree with is your view that it’ll redefine and reshape global interdependencies. Maybe somewhat by necessity, but overall people and governments tend to be pretty intractable and I don’t think this crisis will make them act smarter or more responsibly.

 

[Caveman044]

I work in OEM Semiconductor ..

Yes the chip shortage is real, probably more than people understand. It's affect more than just automotive. In general there is a large supply and demand shortage over a lot of sectors. 2022 will not be looking good for a lot of the economy.

I hate SST doors!

 

[RAO]

Ordered a 392 on August 10th 2021 and they said it won't be here till January 06

That is quick considering Jeep just started producing the ‘22s.

 

[TJJL19]

That's funny, my build was a willys too and it says I need an etorque. Was just showing I picked a 2022. Like I said someone should let jeep know what they are building. LOL Guess you'll find out when you get it.

So did jeep charge you the 1,500 extra for the etorque? Another 1,500 reasons to do away with it!

 

[Strommen95]

Based on chatter in the threads, it appears the JK line keeps shutting down due to parts shortages while the JL line continues.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

When you base most of your electronics manufacture in Asia to make cheaper product this is the problem. This is partly WHY we need to get back to domestic manufacturing. It hadn't been cost effective for many years to make semi components or even machine parts domestically.

You addressed the issue you brought up, and you probably know better than most why this will not happen. Chips come from where they do for EXACTLY one reason - cost. There is no possible way that any domestic manufacturer can supply chips for anywhere near the cost that Asian suppliers can. For one reason - labor cost. Our economic system in the US precludes there ever being a cost effective way to do it. Unskilled or low skilled labor demands to be paid like highly skilled professional labor or even middle management, plus benefits, plus the cost of business insurance, plus the cost of potential litigation. And the “Buy American” folks will not buy a $2600 iPhone 14 made completely in the USA with American made components.

 

[viper88]

Production started back up yesterday. They are finishing up about 1800 2021 VINS.

 

[Killed by Death]

Really I don't want either! But to get an automatic with V6 the only choice I get is eTorque.

For what it's worth I like my 3.6 eTorque. Sure you pay more but this system is covered under the much longer Emissions warranty. And it's cheaper than the dual battery fix that has no OEM coverage. I also don't have to screw around with the tiny computer battery under the main battery.

 

[viper88]

For what it's worth I like my 3.6 eTorque. Sure you pay more but this system is covered under the much longer Emissions warranty. And it's cheaper than the dual battery fix that has no OEM coverage. I also don't have to screw around with the tiny computer battery under the main battery.

I had '19 2.0T eTorque. I like the eTorque more than ESS. ETorque is smoother and the extra torque right off the line is noticeable. I loved the driving dynamics of the 2.0T and would have ordered it again if it would have been available with eTorque. I ordered a 2022 JLR. I decided to go with the 3.6 this time because that was the only way to avoid ESS and to get eTorque. So yes, I made my decision based on having eTorque or ESS. I will miss the driving dynamics of the fun 2.0T but I am sure the smoother liner power delivery of the 3.6 will be fine.

There will be some who feel eTorque is more complicated and less reliable as a result. I feel it is less problematic than the ESS. I think the ESS system with the 12V AUX battery is FCA's Achilles heel. A simple search on this forum will show ESS failures and problems are more common than eTorque issues. A engineer I know said 40% of warranty issues are caused by the ESS charging and battery. Bad ESS batteries can cause all kinds of symptoms for seemingly unrelated issues. Most if not all of the ESS issues can probably be avoided by making sure BOTH the main and ESS aux batteries are in perfect working condition. I would replace both batteries every 3 years if I owned a ESS system as insurance.

 

[karynm8621]

I agree with you there. My only point in this was that it's affecting more than just Semi, which has to hit the automotive sector. I think GM recently said they were not offering heated seats next year for this reason.

I believe there is a bill in congress now to push domestic chip making. All i know is that I'm hearing it's going to get harder to manufacture anything this coming year.

 

[Hennessey17]

Suck it! I'm getting my Jeep soon. :D

get a room

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