Livernois Mycalibrator Tune Claims 50HP Gains (on E85) for V6 JL Wrangler

[VerservJL]

However, this is something that can only be done with a new PCM, you would not be able to move that PCM to a different truck as once the VIN is programmed in it's permanent.

So would that mean I have two pcms tied to the same vin? This way I could swap back to the original if I sell it or need service work?

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[Livernois Motorsports]

So would that mean I have two pcms tied to the same vin? This way I could swap back to the original if I sell it or need service work?

Correct

 

[VerservJL]

Well isn't that interesting. Whats the cost for all that?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

a new OEM ECM is about 300

 

[VerservJL]

300 clams. Well I'm in!!!

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

300 clams. Well I'm in!!!

Full disclosure, that's on top of the tuner, pcm unlock, and bypass cable just to be clear

 

[VerservJL]

I assumed as much so thank you for clarifying. Although what is the bypass cable? Thats a new one.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I assumed as much so thank you for clarifying. Although what is the bypass cable? Thats a new one.

the bypass cable allows for programming of the vehicle. in 2018 FCA added some extra security to prevent tuning, so not only do they require a PCM unlock, they also require a programming cable to allow for programming.

 

[VerservJL]

Well, no suprise I guess. Chrysler wants to nickle and dime us in anyway they can. Either way I am working on placing my order. Thanks again.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Well, no suprise I guess. Chrysler wants to nickle and dime us in anyway they can. Either way I am working on placing my order. Thanks again.

You're welcome!

 

[5280Sapper]

Soooo people before you jump to get your wallets out take some caution to this.. Tuning is great and factory makes these engines very generic and safe running.. is that a bad thing not really but we all want power... the jeep has suffered from being underpowered for so long the Diesel finally makes the grunt you need for crawling and the 2L turbo is stupid for wheeling.. 3.6 does work well but its a V6 and needs another 100 hp to make it cool and worthy imop. I reached out the Livernois Motorsports on Instagram with a lot of questions about this tuner and i've been familiar with them since I'm from MI and they have a good sized presence in the V8 world... whoever is sunning their IG is kinda dumb honestly.. I didn't ask for a free tuner and I asked what all parameters are you messing with.. seems just like a HPTuners kinda programming to me. I wanted to know what they were doing in the trans and I was asking for exact specifics and they replied we don't discuss what we do in our programming .. ok fine So I said I'm sure plenty of "wanna be Ambassadors" have asked for free shit but who is actually legit and actually wheels hardcore ?? hows it handling high temps areas? hows it handling high altitude? the person replied we have over 100 vehicles locally running this with no issues and over 250 nationwide hardcore crawlers using it with no issues.. I started to think to myself.. I'm decently involved with Pepé in the JL world and I haven't heard or seen anything from anyone ever about this.. maybe he was including the JK platform also but thats entirely different... So I replied to them who is famous or big thats using this so I can talk to them I have questions and I want honest answers. drivability and reliability is huge since I wheel hard an a lot compared to the vast majority.. I was ghosted...no reply just a read notification.. So id be very cautious with this till more has been proven in real life by real owners who use their vehicles like we do.. there is no hardcore wheeling in michigan and they don't have 100* plus temps in high altitude and I don't care what any tuner says a good one will tell you need to get on a dyne and have your vehicle tuned specifically for your style and your vehicle they are all different!!!! they all act different... and do not run E85 its a huge waste.. the worst and most inconsistent rule out there and they are becoming more and more scares and well i don't know if y'all know but your consumption is doubled with E85 soooo you'll start needing to carry a bunch of fuel if you go out on long remote trips of wheel in places that don't have fuel close.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Soooo people before you jump to get your wallets out take some caution to this.. Tuning is great and factory makes these engines very generic and safe running.. is that a bad thing not really but we all want power... the jeep has suffered from being underpowered for so long the Diesel finally makes the grunt you need for crawling and the 2L turbo is stupid for wheeling.. 3.6 does work well but its a V6 and needs another 100 hp to make it cool and worthy imop. I reached out the Livernois Motorsports on Instagram with a lot of questions about this tuner and i've been familiar with them since I'm from MI and they have a good sized presence in the V8 world... whoever is sunning their IG is kinda dumb honestly.. I didn't ask for a free tuner and I asked what all parameters are you messing with.. seems just like a HPTuners kinda programming to me. I wanted to know what they were doing in the trans and I was asking for exact specifics and they replied we don't discuss what we do in our programming .. ok fine So I said I'm sure plenty of "wanna be Ambassadors" have asked for free shit but who is actually legit and actually wheels hardcore ?? hows it handling high temps areas? hows it handling high altitude? the person replied we have over 100 vehicles locally running this with no issues and over 250 nationwide hardcore crawlers using it with no issues.. I started to think to myself.. I'm decently involved with Pepé in the JL world and I haven't heard or seen anything from anyone ever about this.. maybe he was including the JK platform also but thats entirely different... So I replied to them who is famous or big thats using this so I can talk to them I have questions and I want honest answers. drivability and reliability is huge since I wheel hard an a lot compared to the vast majority.. I was ghosted...no reply just a read notification.. So id be very cautious with this till more has been proven in real life by real owners who use their vehicles like we do.. there is no hardcore wheeling in michigan and they don't have 100* plus temps in high altitude and I don't care what any tuner says a good one will tell you need to get on a dyne and have your vehicle tuned specifically for your style and your vehicle they are all different!!!! they all act different... and do not run E85 its a huge waste.. the worst and most inconsistent rule out there and they are becoming more and more scares and well i don't know if y'all know but your consumption is doubled with E85 soooo you'll start needing to carry a bunch of fuel if you go out on long remote trips of wheel in places that don't have fuel close.

Well, in ~20 years of posting on forums, I don't think I have ever had anyone call me "dumb", so there is my new thing for the day. I say that cause I am the same person that you were talking to on IG.

Many people may not know our background, but being around as an OEM and aftermarket supplier for over 70 years, it's hard to fathom not being heard of in some capacity. Of course it's possible. I am sure there are people who have never heard of Google, or Amazon, and we're obviously no where near their size or level of visibility.

And yes, we don't disclose the parameters that go into it, the same way a chef wouldn't disclose a recipe they created. It's our secret sauce to how we are able to do what we do, and everyone in the FCA world wants to copy it because even nearly 5 years after starting to offer it, there really isn't anyone else that has figured it out.

As for what teams we have supported over the last 30 years in desert racing and offroad, many of them run our decals, but not all. Not every team on a circuit wants their competitors to know why they're losing, so those usually pay a premium for a NDA. We're allowed to speak in generalities, but some we can't disclose specific details beyond a certain point. Many of these today are EcoBoost Ford powered, as this family of engines started showing up in quantity at Baja, there was a need for calibration and hardware support, and we have played a hand in this.

So high temp, power dense, V6, and I4 engines are old had to us almost as much as V8's are. I know it's "braggy" but I can say that almost all of the Ford EcoBoost aftermarket really got started by us as in 2009, when it showed up in the 2010 SHO, we dove in the deep end of the pool head first.

in the FCA arena we were the first to offer tuning for every 2018 application, as well as 2019, 2020, and we've already started adding in a few 2021 applications. And most don't know it, but we were one of only 3 places that could tune a Chrysler prior to 2006, and the only CMR tuner in Michigan until around 2009. But in 2010 we released our own hardware to better take advantage of the extreme amount of R+D we were doing on these, and our original MyCalibrator Tuner was launched.

As for being "ghosted" that implies a purposeful lack of response, and usually several messages coming our way. you sent 1 message on a sunday I believe that got overlooked. It happens, but human error is very different than being ghosted or purposely ignored. I am sure everyone has missed an email, text, or voicemail in their life. We try our best to not miss one, but it can happen. But you're looking way deeper into it than what it is.

Now, on to the need for custom dyno tuning. The excuse of "every vehicle is different" has been used for far too long. And we know the rest of the industry insists on this outdated approach, but it's honestly a crutch that people use to explain that they are tuning without all of the proper tools at their disposal. Basically, if you tune these right, they automatically adjust for all of the possible variances. Altitude, barometer, humidity, temp, all of that compensation is built into the OEM calibration, and if you're adjusting the right items in the first place, and modifying those items that adjust off of these conditions as well, then the truck needs nothing else.

We've proven this approach works in many different platforms, as people rarely need an update, but can go out and set records, or have a successful race, without needing a single adjustment to their calibration.

That's the difference having your own development vehicle, and spending a year or more on the calibration makes. It takes far more to know what to change and adjust than paying $300 for software and having a dyno.

As for E85, honestly, at least around us, more and more stations carry it. We've had many people in the last 2 years reach out for flex fuel specifically because they now have a station that carries it. Even in California it's making an appearance! The reduction of fuel economy does exist, but nowhere near to the extent you are tlking about. our truck lost 2-3 MPG. that's about 10-15%, which I would say ~20 is the median for most vehicles. 20 years ago it was 30 because everything was low compression, and there wasn't much power to be gained by using it. But today those efficiency reductions are offset by how much more power you can make with it. but it was never 50%. And, that's again the beauty of flex fuel, just run 93 if you want to, it doesn't care. it literally costs $0 dollars extra to get the Flex Fuel option, but if you're so against it, don't check that box, it still gains crazy on 93 as well.

 

[5280Sapper]

Well, in ~20 years of posting on forums, I don't think I have ever had anyone call me "dumb", so there is my new thing for the day. I say that cause I am the same person that you were talking to on IG.

Many people may not know our background, but being around as an OEM and aftermarket supplier for over 70 years, it's hard to fathom not being heard of in some capacity. Of course it's possible. I am sure there are people who have never heard of Google, or Amazon, and we're obviously no where near their size or level of visibility.

And yes, we don't disclose the parameters that go into it, the same way a chef wouldn't disclose a recipe they created. It's our secret sauce to how we are able to do what we do, and everyone in the FCA world wants to copy it because even nearly 5 years after starting to offer it, there really isn't anyone else that has figured it out.

As for what teams we have supported over the last 30 years in desert racing and offroad, many of them run our decals, but not all. Not every team on a circuit wants their competitors to know why they're losing, so those usually pay a premium for a NDA. We're allowed to speak in generalities, but some we can't disclose specific details beyond a certain point. Many of these today are EcoBoost Ford powered, as this family of engines started showing up in quantity at Baja, there was a need for calibration and hardware support, and we have played a hand in this.

So high temp, power dense, V6, and I4 engines are old had to us almost as much as V8's are. I know it's "braggy" but I can say that almost all of the Ford EcoBoost aftermarket really got started by us as in 2009, when it showed up in the 2010 SHO, we dove in the deep end of the pool head first.

in the FCA arena we were the first to offer tuning for every 2018 application, as well as 2019, 2020, and we've already started adding in a few 2021 applications. And most don't know it, but we were one of only 3 places that could tune a Chrysler prior to 2006, and the only CMR tuner in Michigan until around 2009. But in 2010 we released our own hardware to better take advantage of the extreme amount of R+D we were doing on these, and our original MyCalibrator Tuner was launched.

As for being "ghosted" that implies a purposeful lack of response, and usually several messages coming our way. you sent 1 message on a sunday I believe that got overlooked. It happens, but human error is very different than being ghosted or purposely ignored. I am sure everyone has missed an email, text, or voicemail in their life. We try our best to not miss one, but it can happen. But you're looking way deeper into it than what it is.

Now, on to the need for custom dyno tuning. The excuse of "every vehicle is different" has been used for far too long. And we know the rest of the industry insists on this outdated approach, but it's honestly a crutch that people use to explain that they are tuning without all of the proper tools at their disposal. Basically, if you tune these right, they automatically adjust for all of the possible variances. Altitude, barometer, humidity, temp, all of that compensation is built into the OEM calibration, and if you're adjusting the right items in the first place, and modifying those items that adjust off of these conditions as well, then the truck needs nothing else.

We've proven this approach works in many different platforms, as people rarely need an update, but can go out and set records, or have a successful race, without needing a single adjustment to their calibration.

That's the difference having your own development vehicle, and spending a year or more on the calibration makes. It takes far more to know what to change and adjust than paying $300 for software and having a dyno.

As for E85, honestly, at least around us, more and more stations carry it. We've had many people in the last 2 years reach out for flex fuel specifically because they now have a station that carries it. Even in California it's making an appearance! The reduction of fuel economy does exist, but nowhere near to the extent you are tlking about. our truck lost 2-3 MPG. that's about 10-15%, which I would say ~20 is the median for most vehicles. 20 years ago it was 30 because everything was low compression, and there wasn't much power to be gained by using it. But today those efficiency reductions are offset by how much more power you can make with it. but it was never 50%. And, that's again the beauty of flex fuel, just run 93 if you want to, it doesn't care. it literally costs $0 dollars extra to get the Flex Fuel option, but if you're so against it, don't check that box, it still gains crazy on 93 as well.

ok ghosted might have been strong.. I do believe if someone is asking the right questions on a new product in a group you’ve not targeted before I’d pay closer attention it... just my ethic on that part.

I’m well aware and many are of your ford expertise y’all are the go to for that.. mopar and gm I’ve never really felt that y’all were the go to for them but I also haven’t been in the gm world for the last few years and I don’t pay much attention to mopar V8’s since I don’t have a need for support since I have a Holley system for my 392 in my buggy. But your race support and oe and all these other platforms doesn’t mean anything when it comes to a wrangler.. yes there are a few that drive them like corvettes I’m guilty there but it’s like drag racing a Prius... especially on one tons and heavy 40’s.. my specific questions were to that and the nature of rock crawling.. where you don’t go over 10 mph and you use 1-3 gear in the 8 spd auto and hover around 1500-3000 rpms and when it’s 100* plus outside in a canyon with no air flow.. I could give zero f&@$ about mpg and top end or peak power because it doesn’t matter.. yes the JL is different and I regularly haul ass doing 80-90 on cruise... I drive the shit out of my Jeep and people know it.. but it’s way out of breath over 70 so it’s a big brick. I want to know how it works in real life scenarios off roading.. you want to target this new group that’s who you need to invest in.. the people who actually drive their chit beat and drive it home.. not the pavement pounders and trailer queens and mall crawlers that hit some dirt roads occasionally..

Also I do still believe all vehicles are different and you can’t tell me if your life depended on it if you built a side by side build on the same platform and get the exact same results. Especially with jeeps where there is so many inconsistencies with weights of tires and wheels and bumpers and fuel consistency, oils, driver styles.. and to the E85 we all know how bad it is all over need Vp fuel so you can actually get what you want ain’t no race team using pump E85 gas racing. And Colorado Utah Az NM E85 pumps are extremely scarce. I had no intention to say your product is junk... I simply want real data.. no some sea level dyno chart.. nobody wants that... we want to see how it’s lasted on real wheeled vehicles and make sure our 60k plus vehicles aren’t gunna grenade motors and burn up tranny’s... so if you think I’m way far off on that.. I won’t say another word and I’ll eat all the crow you want.. but if you want to be an innovator and provide a bad ass product that will sell. I’ve literally handed you all the steps in order to gain trust and respect in this community.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

ok ghosted might have been strong.. I do believe if someone is asking the right questions on a new product in a group you’ve not targeted before I’d pay closer attention it... just my ethic on that part.

I’m well aware and many are of your ford expertise y’all are the go to for that.. mopar and gm I’ve never really felt that y’all were the go to for them but I also haven’t been in the gm world for the last few years and I don’t pay much attention to mopar V8’s since I don’t have a need for support since I have a Holley system for my 392 in my buggy. But your race support and oe and all these other platforms doesn’t mean anything when it comes to a wrangler.. yes there are a few that drive them like corvettes I’m guilty there but it’s like drag racing a Prius... especially on one tons and heavy 40’s.. my specific questions were to that and the nature of rock crawling.. where you don’t go over 10 mph and you use 1-3 gear in the 8 spd auto and hover around 1500-3000 rpms and when it’s 100* plus outside in a canyon with no air flow.. I could give zero f&@$ about mpg and top end or peak power because it doesn’t matter.. yes the JL is different and I regularly haul ass doing 80-90 on cruise... I drive the shit out of my Jeep and people know it.. but it’s way out of breath over 70 so it’s a big brick. I want to know how it works in real life scenarios off roading.. you want to target this new group that’s who you need to invest in.. the people who actually drive their chit beat and drive it home.. not the pavement pounders and trailer queens and mall crawlers that hit some dirt roads occasionally..

Also I do still believe all vehicles are different and you can’t tell me if your life depended on it if you built a side by side build on the same platform and get the exact same results. Especially with jeeps where there is so many inconsistencies with weights of tires and wheels and bumpers and fuel consistency, oils, driver styles.. and to the E85 we all know how bad it is all over need Vp fuel so you can actually get what you want ain’t no race team using pump E85 gas racing. And Colorado Utah Az NM E85 pumps are extremely scarce. I had no intention to say your product is junk... I simply want real data.. no some sea level dyno chart.. nobody wants that... we want to see how it’s lasted on real wheeled vehicles and make sure our 60k plus vehicles aren’t gunna grenade motors and burn up tranny’s... so if you think I’m way far off on that.. I won’t say another word and I’ll eat all the crow you want.. but if you want to be an innovator and provide a bad ass product that will sell. I’ve literally handed you all the steps in order to gain trust and respect in this community.

I appreciate your viewpoint, but our goal isn't to cater only to street use, and only to crawlers, or dune rigs, or mud rigs. If done properly (which we feel we have done) it will do all well.

But I also don't think that just getting all the attention in one area is the answer either. The market for every Jeep has always been bigger than one intended market (although the Mall Crawler/street use has admittedly been the biggest growth). Proof of that is why there are 1713 different lift companies for these things. Some people just don't care about that use (even if we do), and some people are even put off if they thin it's only suited for that use.

Even low ethanol E85 (like E50) has a pretty big benefit over 93, so don't sell yourself short on "low quality" being an issue. On many platforms, E30 calibrations are common because it's a solid gain over 93, but without taxing the fuel system too much.

And yes, production tolerances are a real thing, but in 2020, they're a fraction of what they were in the the 2000's, not to mention 80's and 90's. And if you're tuning for a .5% variation in the engine, you're going to have to retune the vehicle almost every day, every new tank of fuel, and every weather pattern change to keep the .5%. If you don't there will absolutely be times where the .5% burns you.

Realizing that an EcoBoost is different, my point of that is off-road racing is a universal approach, they all concern themselves with high temps, durability, and efficiency, but also because you made mention we are V8 centric. So it addressed both misconceptions in one point.

We are pretty even keel across GM, Ford, and FCA and have been for some time. If anything, with FCA's "Hellcats for all" approach, we do more FCA since 2015 than anything else. We effectively have just as many records in one brand as we do in another.

 

[nerubi]

Since FCA says the warranty can be voided for using E85 because it isn't set up for it do you cover any engine work they won't pay if they find E85 in the tank?

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