MichaelAnthony

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Hmmm ..... i would like to see their reply... very interested...



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rubileon

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This would be question for the tuner. Is the factory cooling system adequate enough on the trail to have 50HP and TQ gains? I would like to see the difference in the temp charts from constant running at higher output v normal. Doesn’t this need to be tested out in real world conditions like crawling on the trail in desert heat etc to make sure that you don’t blow a gasket?
You must be new to modern V6s... 50HP is about 20% and that's nothing for a tuning champion like the Pentastar. Plenty of people have been supercharging the 3.6 with 50-60% more power with everything stock except the supercharger stock and have no issues for years and years.

The Pentastar is no GTR engine or 2JZ but in stock form it takes a beating better than Toyota V6s in Lotuses. The only issues as of late have been with some dodgy tuning from a certain turbo manufacturer.

Just get on youtube and search. 50HP from N/A is not an issue.
 

DizzyIzzy

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You must be new to modern V6s.
I don’t need your condescending reply. It was a valid question and the tuner understood that and replied as such.

JKs were known for heat soaking without any added horsepower whatsoever (they had pentastars in them). It’s not about the engine, it’s about the engine parameters, fan triggers and the environment. So, adding horsepower and running them in high rev and high heat and crawling at snails pace conditions will always affect the performance. And the tuner understands that and took all of that into account.
 

rubileon

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JKs were known for heat soaking without any added horsepower whatsoever (they had pentastars in them).
No. 2007-2011 JKs didn't have the Pentastar and had a fan that was nearly half the power of the 2012+/Pentastar JK fan. AEV, which was famous for Hemi conversions in the JK era, even used the stock JK fan with the 6.4 V8. You need to stick to stories you can defend.

And is there really such a thing as an engine that doesn't heat soak? Maybe if it's a fully submerged boat engine.
 

DizzyIzzy

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No. 2007-2011 JKs didn't have the Pentastar and had a fan that was nearly half the power of the 2012+/Pentastar JK fan. AEV, which was famous for Hemi conversions in the JK era, even used the stock JK fan with the 6.4 V8. You need to stick to stories you can defend.

And is there really such a thing as an engine that doesn't heat soak? Maybe if it's a fully submerged boat engine.
Are you kidding me? So, if you're saying that ANY engine can heat soak then what the hell are you arguing about???? The answer was already given by the tuner, so no need for you to play the chair expert. AND YES, the Pentastar JKs had problems with the fan settings. Look it up in the JK forum.
 
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Toycrusher

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50hp from a tune in an NA application is an incredible claim. 10-15 hp is more typical on a tune that doesn't sacrifice driveability or reliability. I'm not saying this claim is false, it's just out of the ordinary.
 

PsychoTrucker81

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50hp from a tune in an NA application is an incredible claim. 10-15 hp is more typical on a tune that doesn't sacrifice driveability or reliability. I'm not saying this claim is false, it's just out of the ordinary.
I agree with you, but with the crazy high compression on the new Pentastar and considering the fact that we run them on regular and they go, I’m sure going 93 octane and tuning them will uncork more than normal with a tune. I’d love to see how neutered the factory timing is on these to run 87
 

BroncoHound

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50hp from a tune in an NA application is an incredible claim. 10-15 hp is more typical on a tune that doesn't sacrifice driveability or reliability. I'm not saying this claim is false, it's just out of the ordinary.
Agreed. I had an Edelbrock supercharger, custom tuning, and S&B intake on my 2013 Pentastar JKR and it produced right at 100hp/100tq gain to the rear wheels (dyno verified).

012.jpg


50hp with a tuner alone, especially in a useable part of the powerband (I personally don't care about gains at the rev limiter as I don't spend any time there) is really impressive. And of even more interest to me is the ~30hp/15tq at 2500-3000rpm (which anyone with a MT spends a considerable amount of time in) and the massive cleaning up of the powerband in the 4000-4500rpm range, which is passing/steep grade revs. Seeing that drop at 4000rpm in the baseline hp/tq curves is UGLY. What a terrible place to have a hole in your powerband on a breadbox that gets on the highway!

Personally though, I haven't had the greatest experience with tuning the Pentastar. I went through well over 100 tune versions on my JKR, from custom data logging with a wideband o2 for mail order tunes from multiple "gurus" with a Diablosport, to multiple HP tuners licenses and days on the dyno and the street, to tearing apart the entire supercharger and putting it back together on the engine again to ensure I didn't dick up something mechanical on the install, to replacing gas pedals, throttle bodies, switches, sensors, MAFs, and even the entire PCM. And after all that, with a brand new PCM and the canned Edelbrock tune on an SCT programmer (which should've been the most polished available, if not the most powerful, since it is what the dealership is authorized to install if you choose keep your Jeep warranty with the Edelbrock blower), it still never was what I would consider "right." There were flat spots in the throttle curve, there were random hiccups, and there were times it felt like a parachute had been released behind the Jeep during light acceleration or with the cruise control on (the surging cruise was almost unbearable at times).

To be clear, none of that had anything to do with Livernois. I've some exposure to these guys because they frequent the Hellcat boards so I know their reputation and I trust they aren't fly-by-night or peddlers in snake oil, but after all the nonsense I went through trying to tune the Pentastar, I never gave any thought to tuning the Hellcat. And, until I saw this thread I could honestly say I'd given no thought to messing with the tuning on my incoming JLUR either.

My JLUR hasn't even arrived yet, so I DEFINITELY won't be messing with the tuning in the first 10k miles or more (until I'm comfortable there won't be any significant warranty issues) and even after that I'm not so sure. I'm going to follow this thread and these like them VERY closely, but I'm afraid someone else will have to be the guinea pig this time.
 

rubileon

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Are you kidding me? So, if you're saying that ANY engine can heat soak then what the hell are you arguing about???? The answer was already given by the tuner, so no need for you to play the chair expert. AND YES, the Pentastar JKs had problems with the fan settings. Look it up in the JK forum.
No. You've never owned one but I have and had forced induction on what's otherwise a completely stock JKU Sahara. No hood vents. Drove it hard and red lined frequently.
 

DizzyIzzy

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No. You've never owned one but I have and had forced induction on what's otherwise a completely stock JKU Sahara. No hood vents. Drove it hard and red lined frequently.
With that logic, I own a JL, a BMW 335i, a 3000GT VR4. Does that make me an expert in everything JL, BMW and Mitsubishi? Get outta here. My original question was to the tuner and not to you. You're not the tuner and my concern was valid. And the tuner has already replied before you.

Just because you didn't experience it, doesn't mean everyone else's concern is invalid. It's like those people, who think Corona virus is a hoax just because they haven't experienced it.

You're here arguing for argument's sake. No added value.
 
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BrntWS6

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Yes E85 and Flex fuel are the same thing. Looks like the 50hp gains are with E85 or 93 octane. Mail order tunes can be great if its not your DD. If there is an issure with the tune you will need to send it back for an adjustment. A street tune is best with cold starts etc. But most tuners don't like to spend 2-3 days tuning 1 car.

I would also like to know if this can be put back to stock easily so the dealers software won't recognize any modifications from your tune.
 

porcusRex

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I’m confused... I thought e85 was flex fuel.
flex means you can run e85 and you can run regular gas or any mixture in between. say you use e85 around town, but go on a trip and there are no e85 stations on your trip, so you fill up at station x and you have some e85 in the tank, later you fill up again with gas and now your ethanol content is around 10 percent (which is what most gas is today, 10 percent ethanol). so you car computer that controls the fueling injects less fuel because there is more energy in a gallon of gas than in a gallon of ethanol. if you vary the percentage of ethanol significantly, you need to vary the fueling accordingly. thats what a flex fuel sensor does. it can detect the percent of ethanol in your fuel.

e85 is a great fuel. its cheap race gas. in runs cooler, is less susceptible to detonation and some say it keeps your motor top end 'cleaner'. it also absorbs water and you need to make sure you dont let it sit in your tank idle for a long period of time.

e85 tunes for most cars are almost pointless unless they are turbo charged or super charged. some performance engines that dont have forced induction do benefit if adjustments can be made to timing and variable compression (by changing cam timing) but its something rarely seen on non high performance motors. im a bit surprised to see someone doing it for the 3.6 jeep motor. im also surprised that they were able to get 50 more HP out of the motor. turbo is a different story. i went for 220 at the crank to 300 at the wheels on my subaru but a bigger turbo and intercooler and after market exhaust allowing me to push more air and fuel through the system were key.
 
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cosmokenney

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I'd consider this just for for the Transmission shift modifications. The damn thing waits way too long to downshift when you are heading up a hill. If I keep my acellerator in the same position going up even the slightest incline I will loose 5 - 10 MPH before it downshifts.
 

AnnDee4444

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Yes, and No. In production form, absolutely not. But, FCA actually gave the engine everything it needs to be able to be flex fuel, just they didn't actually do it. So, with our proprietary calibration and code changes we are able to activate and deliver this functionality. Honestly, once you drive one on E85, you likely will never want to put gasoline back in it, although you can of course.
Are you planning on offering any tunes for the 2.0? Also, any idea if the 2.0 is flex fuel capable?
 

Keeper

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Just to add another question to the mix.

Does your tune remove rev hang for us manual guys? If it does, hang on to your butt because everyone who owns a manual is going to want one whether it makes more power or not.

Second, if it does remove rev hang, does it still pass emissions tests or does it come with an off-highway use only statement?

Thanks
Not just the rev hang but also the wonky tuning coasting at low rpm.
 








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