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Lifelong wrangler driver. Considering jumping ship...

Streetrodder

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Don't get me wrong, I love Wranglers. I've only ever driven wranglers. This 2019 JL sahara was the first time I purchased a brand new one. All of my previous wranglers were either used when I purchased or leased. I was excited to be able to modify it and make it my own. My purchase price was right around 50k and I've maybe put $7k of mods (lift, tires, etc). I'm happy with the outcome and look of my jeep. I am getting slightly annoyed, however, with the little things that keep "going wrong" that I have to get checked out:

1) My climate control doesn't work properly, and during the winter its either all the way hot or all the way cold. No in between. Doesnt bother me as much during summer, because I usually just blast the AC on lowest temp.

2) I have a rattle that I think may be coming from the track of my Sky one touch top that nobody can seem to figure out.

3) A plastic piece that holds the floor flap thing in place in the back snapped off when I was dragging out something heavy from the back, now it wont stay in place.

4) And just in the past few weeks (now that it's colder) I have been experiencing serious "death wobble" when I hit bumps. And not just at highway speeds, but in-town. And it doesn't stop when I slow down. My steering wheel violently shakes for like 10 seconds when I hit a bump with my left tires. It was so bad today that I had to pull over in traffic before it stopped.

I just feel that for a $50K+ vehicle, I shouldnt be having this many issues. I know I'm going to get reamed with trade in value and basically lose most of the money Ive spent in modifying this thing, but I can't deal with being in the dealership this frequently.

My other "dream car" is a MB G550, but its always been out of my price range. However, maybe you get what you pay for?
Re: My 2020 JLUR, Iā€™m already trying to bail on it with 290 miles. FCA is doing a great job ruining the brand. Iā€™ve owned Jeeps all my life. Iā€™m not going to wait until the class action suit that is sure to come. $55k plus for a JKLU that wonā€™t drive in a straight line and death wobbles is unacceptable! Anyone that buys a Wrangler after reading all of the negative posts here deserves what you get.
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richk225

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As far as I know, JLs do not have lane assist. The only "assistance" is Forward Collision Avoidance which has nothing to do with steering.
My mistake, wrong wording. I hope that this clarifies what I was trying to say. Check out the YouTube videos on the install and how you will end up with 2 separate wire harness`s that are no longer used
The New Jeep JL is equipped with new computer controlled electro-hydraulic steering (EHPS), electronic stability control (ESC) electronic roll mitigation (ERM), and a weight saving aluminum housing steering gearbox. PSC has taken the Jeep JL steering system back to the drawing board and engineered our exclusive Big Bore XD-JL Steering Gearbox and a traditional belt-driven High Flow Mechanical Power Steering Pump Conversion, producing an essential upgrade to solve the original steering issues and efficiently handle the increased torque loads due to larger tire sizes and installing aftermarket axle assemblies. Application: 2018 Jeep JL 2 Door/4 Door 3.6L Pentastar Features: ā€¢Eliminates excessive on-center "play" at the steering wheel ā€¢Eliminates electro-hydraulic pump overheating ā€¢Increased Torque Output turns 35"-37" tire sizes
 

Robs JL

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Don't get me wrong, I love Wranglers. I've only ever driven wranglers. This 2019 JL sahara was the first time I purchased a brand new one. All of my previous wranglers were either used when I purchased or leased. I was excited to be able to modify it and make it my own. My purchase price was right around 50k and I've maybe put $7k of mods (lift, tires, etc). I'm happy with the outcome and look of my jeep. I am getting slightly annoyed, however, with the little things that keep "going wrong" that I have to get checked out:

1) My climate control doesn't work properly, and during the winter its either all the way hot or all the way cold. No in between. Doesnt bother me as much during summer, because I usually just blast the AC on lowest temp.

2) I have a rattle that I think may be coming from the track of my Sky one touch top that nobody can seem to figure out.

3) A plastic piece that holds the floor flap thing in place in the back snapped off when I was dragging out something heavy from the back, now it wont stay in place.

4) And just in the past few weeks (now that it's colder) I have been experiencing serious "death wobble" when I hit bumps. And not just at highway speeds, but in-town. And it doesn't stop when I slow down. My steering wheel violently shakes for like 10 seconds when I hit a bump with my left tires. It was so bad today that I had to pull over in traffic before it stopped.

I just feel that for a $50K+ vehicle, I shouldnt be having this many issues. I know I'm going to get reamed with trade in value and basically lose most of the money Ive spent in modifying this thing, but I can't deal with being in the dealership this frequently.

My other "dream car" is a MB G550, but its always been out of my price range. However, maybe you get what you pay for?
I can understand your frustration. My jeep has been in the dealer a few times for stupid repairs and have another appointment monday to fix passenger visor. The fit and finish of a 50K vehicle should be allot better than it is but I have to admit every time I get home from work I can't wait to get into the wrangler. Driving it makes me forget the crappie build quality (that is until I hit a bumpy road LOL).
 

stickshifter

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My mistake, wrong wording. I hope that this clarifies what I was trying to say. Check out the YouTube videos on the install and how you will end up with 2 separate wire harness`s that are no longer used
The New Jeep JL is equipped with new computer controlled electro-hydraulic steering (EHPS), electronic stability control (ESC) electronic roll mitigation (ERM), and a weight saving aluminum housing steering gearbox. PSC has taken the Jeep JL steering system back to the drawing board and engineered our exclusive Big Bore XD-JL Steering Gearbox and a traditional belt-driven High Flow Mechanical Power Steering Pump Conversion, producing an essential upgrade to solve the original steering issues and efficiently handle the increased torque loads due to larger tire sizes and installing aftermarket axle assemblies. Application: 2018 Jeep JL 2 Door/4 Door 3.6L Pentastar Features: ā€¢Eliminates excessive on-center "play" at the steering wheel ā€¢Eliminates electro-hydraulic pump overheating ā€¢Increased Torque Output turns 35"-37" tire sizes
Damn - this PSC Steering kit lists for $2,334. If you only needed it for 37-40 inch tires, I guess I could accept it as part of the cost of going big. There are other things you need to upgrade to run tires that are bigger and heavier than what came from the factory. But its not okay if people need to buy an upgraded steering kit as a fix for death wobble for a stock vehicle. I would argue further that you should not have to upgrade steering components if you are running 35s on a Rubicon - since Jeep has essentially given their approval for this tire size. It is unacceptable to have death wobble on a stock vehicle - especially one that costs around $50K. Wranglers should be coming from the factory with something like the Synergy tie rod and drag link; and it would be nice to see better ball joints too.

There is a TSB from Jeep with regard to various steering issues that calls for updating the front track bar. Anyone with funky steering should check it out and get the dealer to address it:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/up...re-jl-steering-issues-wobble-loose-wandering/

If you've got funky steering, but want to keep the Jeep, maybe do the following:
1. Work with the dealer on the TSB. Hopefully, this resolves the problem at no cost.
2. Replace the front drag link and tie rod with Synergy parts (or some other manufacturer). The Synergy kit is $700
https://www.synergymfg.com/jeep-jl/steering/
3. As a last resort, I guess you consider the PSC kit, but at $2,334, that is damn hard to justify if you aren't running 40s.
 
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Kluk Ztopolovky

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I hear many mechanics are taking the sick day when they see parked Mercedes or BMW in front of their garage .I would also point out one important fact. When there is a need of repair somewhere in middle of Utah or Idaho good luck finding quick solution how to fix your fancy German wheels . I do not wish to sit on the Greyhound going back home . For a Jeep you can always find spare parts and mechanic just about anywhere in the Jeep homeland.
 

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Woodbridge

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Re: My 2020 JLUR, Iā€™m already trying to bail on it with 290 miles. FCA is doing a great job ruining the brand. Iā€™ve owned Jeeps all my life. Iā€™m not going to wait until the class action suit that is sure to come. $55k plus for a JKLU that wonā€™t drive in a straight line and death wobbles is unacceptable! Anyone that buys a Wrangler after reading all of the negative posts here deserves what you get.
I wholeheartedly agree with you....Had I read any of the loose steering posts here I would have NEVER bought a 2020 JLUR. It is my 5th Wrangler. Started with the 1979 CJ5 Renegade new in 1979 and four more since then up to this 2020 JLUR which is the WORST Jeep I have owned in terms of handling safely on the road.....and yes everyone, I am including the CJ5 in that mix.
 

jl73660

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I finally jumped ship 2 months ago from my 2018 Moab to a 2019 Ford Raptor. I'll just say that I am very happy and stark contrast relative to quality. Its a personal choice obviously, but wind intrusion to a point of where you can't take a phone call in your vehicle on the highway, steering issues even with recall, steering wheel cocked off to the left going straight no matter how many attempts by dealer to align it properly, rattles everywhere after 10K miles. Was just time to move on for me and very happy I did.
 

roaniecowpony

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Damn - this PSC Steering kit lists for $2,334. If you only needed it for 37-40 inch tires, I guess I could accept it as part of the cost of going big. There are other things you need to upgrade to run tires that are bigger and heavier than what came from the factory. But its not okay if people need to buy an upgraded steering kit as a fix for death wobble for a stock vehicle. I would argue further that you should not have to upgrade steering components if you are running 35s on a Rubicon - since Jeep has essentially given their approval for this tire size. It is unacceptable to have death wobble on a stock vehicle - especially one that costs around $50K. Wranglers should be coming from the factory with something like the Synergy tie rod and drag link; and it would be nice to see better ball joints too.

There is a TSB from Jeep with regard to various steering issues that calls for updating the front track bar. Anyone with funky steering should check it out and get the dealer to address it:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/up...re-jl-steering-issues-wobble-loose-wandering/

If you've got funky steering, but want to keep the Jeep, maybe do the following:
1. Work with the dealer on the TSB. Hopefully, this resolves the problem at no cost.
2. Replace the front drag link and tie rod with Synergy parts (or some other manufacturer). The Synergy kit is $700
https://www.synergymfg.com/jeep-jl/steering/
3. As a last resort, I guess you consider the PSC kit, but at $2,334, that is damn hard to justify if you aren't running 40s.
Yeah it sucks that this vehicle didn't have the steering worked out upon model release.

As for the PSC kit, before I did that, I'd take it to a very good front end shop (if you don't have the skills) and have them check the steering column, intermediate shaft, drag link, tierod, balljoints, and change the trackbar to a well respected brand. Essentially, check every other part of the steering and front suspension before abandoning the stock steering box. Otherwise, you may be spending a lot money for a component that doesn't solve the issue. Very few members with steering problems here have mentioned going to a good front end shop for their opinion. I'm lucky to have been going to possibly the best front end shop in the southern California area for the past 40+ years. These guys don't let anything go and take you down in the pit and show you any problems before any work is done. The owner road-raced for years and is well known for steering and suspension in many circles. A good mechanic is worth $$ even if you are a good one yourself.

We have pretty good evidence the OEM trackbar is marginal at best and terrible in many cases. Upgrade it. They're relatively cheap ($200-300) and they play as important a role in good steering as the draglink or tierod, and a hell of a lot more important role than any steering damper.

We also know that FCA has recognized some issues with the intermediate steering shaft. That shaft is barely over $100 online.

So, we have a lot of information on known problem components beside the steering box. As you said, as a last resort.

Also, for the fabricator types here or those that are more enterprising, somewhere out there is a steering box from a different vehicle that doesn't have the weaknesses of this box. Maybe its a JK box or a GM truck box, etc.
 
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Woodbridge

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I finally jumped ship 2 months ago from my 2018 Moab to a 2019 Ford Raptor. I'll just say that I am very happy and stark contrast relative to quality. Its a personal choice obviously, but wind intrusion to a point of where you can't take a phone call in your vehicle on the highway, steering issues even with recall, steering wheel cocked off to the left going straight no matter how many attempts by dealer to align it properly, rattles everywhere after 10K miles. Was just time to move on for me and very happy I did.
The Raptor is a beautiful truck
 

stickshifter

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Roaniecowpony - I couldn't agree more. The front end components (track bar, drag link, tierod, balljoints, steering shaft) - and their hardware - are the weak points, more so than the steering gearbox. I also agree that a good shop should be able to sleuth steering issues and identify where there is play in the system. The problem should be fixable - it just shouldn't be a problem in a stock vehicle (i.e. running factory tires). Jeep should be shipping all Wranglers with quality steering components, period. In addition, maybe there should be an option on the vehicle order form for a "heavy duty steering package" using parts outsourced from a respected brand (I only mentioned Synergy because I've read a couple of good reviews, but I'm sure there are a bunch of companies making similar products).

Regarding the factory steering gearbox: I wouldn't pay 2 grand out of pocket to replace a defective steering gearbox (by "defective" I mean a gearbox that can't handle the factory tires). That's on Jeep to fix.

If I decided to run a big tire, and I found out that the factory steering gearbox couldn't handle the added mass - that's a different story - and it would be on me to pay for the upgrade. I'd define "big tire" as 37 or larger. I know that a lot of people think of 37s as the "new 35" (i.e. a tire-size easily run on stock components) but there is considerable additional mass with a 37-inch tire, and I think its reasonable to expect to replace factory steering components.
 
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roaniecowpony

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Yeah, I understand a lot of people don't want to spend a nickel on fixing steering they should have gotten in a new vehicle. Some just don't have room in their budgets and some are just standing on principle, and some don't know where to start. But there are a good many of us that are mechanically inclined, willing and able to go after fixing it on our nickel, to get what we want in the end. There really just isn't quite the same vehicle available out there from other makers. But for the people that bought a Jeep for on-road use and are struggling with this curse, maybe a different vehicle is the better path for them.

I spoke with my brother about this issue when he was over for TG dinner. He is a lifelong (40+ years) Jeeper and he backed a friend to start a very successful Jeep focused repair/mod business many years ago. He mentioned that most of the death wobble issues really became prevalent with introduction the coil spring suspension on Jeeps. He acknowledged coil spring suspension was superior, but it came with demons. There's just so many link bushings keeping the axle in position, that it allows for much more opportunity for looseness of the suspension holding the axle in proper position firmly.
 

roaniecowpony

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Regarding tire size, to me, once you step up even a little bit bigger (i.e. 35") than stock, I feel I'm on my own for any steering/suspension issues that arise. Commonly installed tire sizes for off-road modifications have grown leaps and bounds in recent years. I recall when a 31" True-Trac was a "big tire". When you think about the mass and inertia of a 33", 35", 37" or 40" tire compared to the stock base model tire, it starts to put some perspective on the additional loads they exert on steering and suspension components.
 

roaniecowpony

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stickshifter

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Regarding tire size, to me, once you step up even a little bit bigger (i.e. 35") than stock, I feel I'm on my own for any steering/suspension issues that arise. Commonly installed tire sizes for off-road modifications have grown leaps and bounds in recent years. I recall when a 31" True-Trac was a "big tire". When you think about the mass and inertia of a 33", 35", 37" or 40" tire compared to the stock base model tire, it starts to put some perspective on the additional loads they exert on steering and suspension components.
Yeah - back in the mid-1980s I had 33s on my 1978 CJ-7 and they were considered huge! Today we think of 35s almost as the minimum tire size to leave the pavement, which is a bit silly; lots of fun can be had in a 2 or 4-door Wrangler on 31s, let alone in a Rubicon on factory 33s. I agree that we have to take responsibility for any change we make to a stock vehicle suspension or increase in tire size, but Jeep really seems to be promoting 35s on the Rubicon (because they know that a lot of people love the look?) and given the limits of the factory steering components, maybe they need to walk that back a little.
 

Jimac

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I wholeheartedly agree with you....Had I read any of the loose steering posts here I would have NEVER bought a 2020 JLUR. It is my 5th Wrangler. Started with the 1979 CJ5 Renegade new in 1979 and four more since then up to this 2020 JLUR which is the WORST Jeep I have owned in terms of handling safely on the road.....and yes everyone, I am including the CJ5 in that mix.
Yes I know it I had a ā€˜75 CJ-5, ā€˜77 CJ-7 and ā€˜79 CJ-5 all bought new after driving many ā€˜55 M38A1 in the army That what a real Jeep is supposed to be

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