Let's talk winches folks

[AzScorpion]

A product simply marked “Made in China” does not necessarily equate to junk any more or less than “Made in USA” equates to quality. There’s a crap ton of variables to consider.

I make my living with tools and have quite a collection off US made and off-shore stuff. And to be brutally honest, I’ll put much of the off-shore stuff up against against the US stuff anytime.

Agreed! I'm a huge proponent of buying stuff made in the USA. With that said todays labor force and some of the materials used are just pure junk now. So why spend 30%-40% or more when I can save buying elsewhere? I'm one who does a ton or research and IF the reviews are good and it's built in the US and cost more I'll buy it. If not I'll buy something else whether it's made overseas or not.

My money, my decision I don't understand why some get so offended by this. Maybe they overpaid and feel they have to justify it? I don't think there's anything wrong going with a Warn but in all the other forums I'm in I've seen my share of complaints about them to justify looking at a cheaper alternative.

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[Whaler27]

A product simply marked “Made in China” does not necessarily equate to junk any more or less than “Made in USA” equates to quality. There’s a crap ton of variables to consider.

I make my living with tools and have quite a collection off US made and off-shore stuff. And to be brutally honest, I’ll put much of the off-shore stuff up against against the US stuff anytime.

Maybe the Chinese are now setting the quality bar. If so, this is the first place I’ve heard that — about any kind of tool.

To be clear, I have no doubt many of the Chinese products will work for a while. My last UTV came with a Warn-branded Chinese winch. I used it several times to tension fence. It worked just fine. That doesn’t mean it’s as durable as the winches Warn actually builds.

I don’t know how you do product durability tests online, but I’d never suggest a new Chinese winch can’t pull a load. And I’d never suggest a Taiwan tool won’t turn a bolt.

Maybe the much heavier gears/steel/motor in the US-built Warn and Ramsey winches are just heavy because they’re old design and technology and the Chinese have figured out a way to build equal-quality stuff with 20% to 30% less weight. I doubt it, but never say never.

 

[Thane]

My 11 year old 12K Badlands still pulls like day one, no cover, no garage, just ran in the elements for 152K miles.

Did I get lucky? Who knows, but I do know what my next winch will be and if it fails 1 year in I am still way ahead.

I do trails, not labels.

 

[Whaler27]

My 11 year old 12K Badlands still pulls like day one, no cover, no garage, just ran in the elements for 152K miles.

Did I get lucky? Who knows, but I do know what my next winch will be and if it fails 1 year in I am still way ahead.

I do trails, not labels.

Awesome.

I have a like-new, two-door Yugo to sell you. Much cheaper than Honda or Toyota. Then you can do trails AND roads without putting more miles on your Jeep!

 

[Zandcwhite]

Maybe the Chinese are now setting the quality bar. If so, this is the first place I’ve heard that — about any kind of tool.

To be clear, I have no doubt many of the Chinese products will work for a while. My last UTV came with a Warn-branded Chinese winch. I used it several times to tension fence. It worked just fine. That doesn’t mean it’s as durable as the winches Warn actually builds.

I don’t know how you do product durability tests online, but I’d never suggest a new Chinese winch can’t pull a load. And I’d never suggest a Taiwan tool won’t turn a bolt.

Maybe the much heavier gears/steel/motor in the US-built Warn and Ramsey winches are just heavy because they’re old design and technology and the Chinese have figured out a way to build equal-quality stuff with 20% to 30% less weight. I doubt it, but never say never.

If I wheeled somewhere where every trip was mandatory winching, I might upgrade (although in several winch shootouts I’ve seen and/or read over the years the warn winches had more failures than other brands and yet still won on highly subjective categories like appearance and fit/finish). I’m not suggesting that the winch is never the right tool for the job, but rarely is it the only option. If my cheap winch fails, I’ll find another way. The 20-30% extra weight may be a good thing for durability, but the lighter weight carried on the front of my rig for 100k miles that rarely gets used seems like a net positive to me?

 

[Whaler27]

If I wheeled somewhere where every trip was mandatory winching, I might upgrade (although in several winch shootouts I’ve seen and/or read over the years the warn winches had more failures than other brands and yet still won on highly subjective categories like appearance and fit/finish). I’m not suggesting that the winch is never the right tool for the job, but rarely is it the only option. If my cheap winch fails, I’ll find another way. The 20-30% extra weight may be a good thing for durability, but the lighter weight carried on the front of my rig for 100k miles that rarely gets used seems like a net positive to me?

Ya. If I never used/needed a winch I wouldn't spend the money or carry the extra weight either.

Please link any one of the winch shootouts where one of the few American made Warn winches was the early failure.

I'm not saying Warns never fail. Toyotas occasionally fail too, but they don't fail at the rate Yugo's failed. The overwhelming majority of the Warn complaints I've seen involve their Chinese "price point" products which are admittedly very poor quality and not worth the money.

 

[GtX]

I'm not aware of any scientific winch reliability testing. If anyone knows of any, please provide the link(s). Until then, it's all opinion and not only worth as much.

If you blindly wave Made in America >> Made in not America bias typed out on your iPhone or Samsung then you've already lost the debate.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Ya. If I never used/needed a winch I wouldn't spend the money or carry the extra weight either.

Please link any one of the winch shootouts where one of the few American made Warn winches was the early failure.

I'm not saying Warns never fail. Toyotas occasionally fail too, but they don't fail at the rate Yugo's failed. The overwhelming majority of the Warn complaints I've seen involve their Chinese "price point" products which are admittedly very poor quality and not worth the money.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/129-1107-massive-multi-winch-shootout/
And this proves it is name recognition alone. The number 1 winch...Warn. #2 superwinch. The Warn was completely non-functional and the superwinch wouldn't spool out by the end of testing. Meanwhile the engo and tmaxx were still going strong? So much for the "I need a winch I can depend on" being the main criteria I guess? It's an old article from back when Warns quality was higher and the badlands and smittybilt winches were new to the market.

 

[Thane]

Where does the Yugo reference come from?

I didn't realize any winches were being imported from the Czech Republic, or is this just more subjective brand identity... from thirty years ago

 

[GtX]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/129-1107-massive-multi-winch-shootout/
And this proves it is name recognition alone. The number 1 winch...Warn. #2 superwinch. The Warn was completely non-functional and the superwinch wouldn't spool out by the end of testing. Meanwhile the engo and tmaxx were still going strong? So much for the "I need a winch I can depend on" being the main criteria I guess? It's an old article from back when Warns quality was higher and the badlands and smittybilt winches were new to the market.

This is a typical click bait article.
When n=1 then results are bullshit.

 

[GtX]

Where does the Yugo reference come from?

I didn't realize any winches were being imported from the Czech Republic, or is this just more subjective brand identity... from thirty years ago

Just a strawman to beat.

 

[Whaler27]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/129-1107-massive-multi-winch-shootout/
And this proves it is name recognition alone. The number 1 winch...Warn. #2 superwinch. The Warn was completely non-functional and the superwinch wouldn't spool out by the end of testing. Meanwhile the engo and tmaxx were still going strong? So much for the "I need a winch I can depend on" being the main criteria I guess? It's an old article from back when Warns quality was higher and the badlands and smittybilt winches were new to the market.

Did you link the wrong test? Or maybe not the full test?

There were two adverse conclusions about the Warn in the test you linked. 1) After the Warn operated fully submerged for ten minutes they saw colored water which suggested a leak, and 2) the Warn had the greatest power draw. The Warn was the fastest pulling winch, but it sucked so much power it drained their test set-up with the Optima battery.

I missed the part where the Warn “failed”. Apparently the testers did too, but I did notice the Harbor Freight winch was dead right out of the box and unable to even start their testing. (I do wish they followed up to figure out the leak.) (I have never had a Warn winch exceed the capacity of my battery/charging system, even after repeated pulls, but they do draw a lot of power.)

 

[GtX]

Did you link the wrong test? Or maybe not the full test?

There were two adverse conclusions about the Warn in the test you linked. 1) After the Warn operated fully submerged for ten minutes they saw colored water which suggested a leak, and 2) the Warn had the greatest power draw. The Warn was the fastest pulling winch, but it sucked so much power it drained their test set-up with the Optima battery.

I missed the part where the Warn “failed”. Apparently the testers did too, but I did notice the Harbor Freight winch was dead right out of the box and unable to even start their testing. (I do wish they followed up to figure out the leak.) (I have never had a Warn winch exceed the capacity of my battery/charging system, even after repeated pulls, but they do draw a lot of power.)

The test is BS. n=1. But I think this is what you're asking about; Warn = "broken internal parts, would not work after test".

Results
Winch	Max Pull (lb)	Result
Bulldog	10,000	Broke internal parts, would not work after test
Engo	12,000	All functions still worked after test
Superwinch	15,900	Would not spool out after test
T-Max	16,000	All functions still worked after test
Warn	16,000	Broke internal parts, would not work after test

 

[Whaler27]

Where does the Yugo reference come from?

I didn't realize any winches were being imported from the Czech Republic, or is this just more subjective brand identity... from thirty years ago

More subjective brand identity. You’ve caught me, Thane. I’m convinced that some companies consistently build superior products, while others consistently build crappy products. I think there’s ample evidence of that, but I appreciate your right to disagree.

The “Yugo” reference might be too old for most folks on this board, but that brand delivered notoriously crappy cars. Yugo was, at the time, the antithesis of the Toyota experience, so I thought folks would see the parallel. Toyota builds the occasional lemon, and I suspect there are still a few Yugos on the road somewhere, but I haven’t met anybody who thought the brands were equivalent in terms of durability and reliability.

We subjective-brand-identity folks believe buying the product with the Toyota-type record makes more sense than buying the product with the Yugo-type record, even if we know a guy who knows a guy who drove a Yugo from Seattle to Miami.

 

[Whaler27]

The test is BS. n=1. But I think this is what you're asking about; Warn = "broken internal parts, would not work after test".

Results
Winch	Max Pull (lb)	Result
Bulldog	10,000	Broke internal parts, would not work after test
Engo	12,000	All functions still worked after test
Superwinch	15,900	Would not spool out after test
T-Max	16,000	All functions still worked after test
Warn	16,000	Broke internal parts, would not work after test

Dunno how I missed that. I read through, obviously too quickly, and thought I had reached the end, but hadn’t.

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