Sponsored

Leasing Help Please

dshark1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sunny
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Threads
44
Messages
798
Reaction score
908
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon JLR
I am wanting to place a order for a new 22 Rubicon . This is so hard , some dealers do not want to quote you a lease based on today”s rate when asked, with the understanding that rates can change, once the vehicle arrives. I kinda feel like I am going into this in the dark! Once order is placed, deposit is given. Seems like that leaves no leverage. I don’t wanna show up once my order is in & then be quoted some crazy/astronomical payment! Any input or dealer recommendation with past leasing history would be Highly appreciated. - Thx in advance
Sponsored

 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
leasehackr.com is the place to go to learn the finer points of leasing. Essentially though, you'll want to get the dealer to agree to whatever your sales price is and that they won't mark up the mf on the lease. They can't guarantee lease programs, so it isn't surprising they won't quote specific numbers, but they can agree to not mark up the programs at the time of delivery.
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
Thank U for your input. Had this sent over to me. Would u mind lending me your expert eye please. Thoughts on the payments? If I’m doing things properly on leasehackr this seems $70-80 bucks off? - Thx

79B7B02F-82FF-40C6-BCEF-46480715CFF0.jpeg
You'll want to determine which bank they're using, what the msrp is, what they're using for a mf, and ideally a breakdown of fees. You'll also find that if you're open to it, a lease on a 4xe rubicon will be significantly cheaper.
 
OP
OP
dshark1

dshark1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sunny
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Threads
44
Messages
798
Reaction score
908
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon JLR
You'll want to determine which bank they're using, what the msrp is, what they're using for a mf, and ideally a breakdown of fees. You'll also find that if you're open to it, a lease on a 4xe rubicon will be significantly cheaper.
I appreciate your input, it’s just very hard to get those types of numbers and figures on a ordered vehicle that is not yet on the lot. I’m just trying not to get that ripped! Lol
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
I appreciate your input, it’s just very hard to get those types of numbers and figures on a ordered vehicle that is not yet on the lot. I’m just trying not to get that ripped! Lol
They're all numbers that they should be able to give you (at least what they used to estimate, as the lease programs ultimately are based on when you take delivery, not when you order)... a different approach would be to work out roughly what the numbers should be and compare. Do you know what the MSRP is?
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
dshark1

dshark1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sunny
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Threads
44
Messages
798
Reaction score
908
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon JLR
They're all numbers that they should be able to give you (at least what they used to estimate, as the lease programs ultimately are based on when you take delivery, not when you order)... a different approach would be to work out roughly what the numbers should be and compare. Do you know what the MSRP is?
Yes , it was $65,740 prior to the price hike a couple days ago.
 

Gunzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
53
Reaction score
79
Location
ATLANTA
Vehicle(s)
2021 JL
I don't like dealers doing this. It feels somewhat dirty with respect to requiring a non-refundable deposit while refusing to commit to a price. If you're putting a deposit they should agree with you on a price. If the value of the vehicle drops by the time of delivery and you back out, you should lose your deposit. That's the risk you took. However if the value of the vehicle is higher at time of delivery and they refuse to sell at the agreed upon price because they want the higher price, you should get your deposit back.

You could try to negotiate that with them. Get them to agree that deposit is refundable if they either fail to deliver what you ordered or if they eventually refuse to sell to you at "today's" price. They'll only refuse to sell if value at delivery is higher than it is today, and in that scenario they don't lose out because they still have the vehicle to sell at a premium. They make more money. Keeping your deposit in that scenario would be extra and unfair and they shouldn't have an issue returning it to you. You wouldn't end up getting your Jeep but at least you wouldn't be out money.

It also seems interesting that they are willing to commit to a residual but not to a purchase price. If the price goes up, but residual in the contract stays the same you could end up getting a great deal on the buyout at the end of the lease.
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
Here is another quote on basically the same vehicle. What”s amazing is how different the payments are! However this dealer is not returning calls! Larger fees , wondering if this is just a bait & switch deal here!?

26C9E314-1EB5-4CA9-852F-041B2B4B61E4.jpeg
Those numbers are a bit funky. They don't add up right for CCAP, so they may be through a 3rd party bank or "Cash down" in this case is the down payment amount and not the due at sale.
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
It feels somewhat dirty with respect to requiring a non-refundable deposit while refusing to commit to a price.
They don't have a choice in the matter, at least through CCAP. There is not sold order protection available on standard mf/rv (there is for incentivized rates, but there aren't any currently). They can generate an estimate given the current programs, but ultimately, the lease payment will be what it is at the time you take delivery.

It's really no different than them estimating a monthly payment based on today's financing rates and if interest rates go up in the next few months, it is beyond their control.
 
OP
OP
dshark1

dshark1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sunny
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Threads
44
Messages
798
Reaction score
908
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon JLR
They don't have a choice in the matter, at least through CCAP. There is not sold order protection available on standard mf/rv (there is for incentivized rates, but there aren't any currently). They can generate an estimate given the current programs, but ultimately, the lease payment will be what it is at the time you take delivery.

It's really no different than them estimating a monthly payment based on today's financing rates and if interest rates go up in the next few months, it is beyond their control.
U see that’s what I’m not really sure about. Negotiating the selling price is one thing. However, with leasing they have so many ways of playing a number game! Unfortunately, it’s hard to just hope the dealer will be true, Especially when they have your non refundable DP!
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
dshark1

dshark1

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sunny
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Threads
44
Messages
798
Reaction score
908
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon JLR
I don't like dealers doing this. It feels somewhat dirty with respect to requiring a non-refundable deposit while refusing to commit to a price. If you're putting a deposit they should agree with you on a price. If the value of the vehicle drops by the time of delivery and you back out, you should lose your deposit. That's the risk you took. However if the value of the vehicle is higher at time of delivery and they refuse to sell at the agreed upon price because they want the higher price, you should get your deposit back.

You could try to negotiate that with them. Get them to agree that deposit is refundable if they either fail to deliver what you ordered or if they eventually refuse to sell to you at "today's" price. They'll only refuse to sell if value at delivery is higher than it is today, and in that scenario they don't lose out because they still have the vehicle to sell at a premium. They make more money. Keeping your deposit in that scenario would be extra and unfair and they shouldn't have an issue returning it to you. You wouldn't end up getting your Jeep but at least you wouldn't be out money.

It also seems interesting that they are willing to commit to a residual but not to a purchase price. If the price goes up, but residual in the contract stays the same you could end up getting a great deal on the buyout at the end of the lease.
Absolutely! Thx for your input.
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
U see that’s what I’m not really sure about. Negotiating the selling price is one thing. However, with leasing they have so many ways of playing a number game! Unfortunately, it’s hard to just hope the dealer will be true, Especially when they have your non refundable DP!
There really aren't that many knobs that the dealer can turn unique to leasing. They can mark up the money factor, but the residual value is set by the bank and the only fee unique to leasing is the acquisition fee, which they can't mark up. If they agree to not marking up the MF, that pretty much locks in the lease specific knobs they can turn to play games.

You do want to be aware of the differences in leasing companies though. For example, USBank and Ally, who sometimes have lower monthly payments, charge market rate if you try to trade in/sell the jeep before the lease is up. This can cost you a lot of money. CCAP (chrysler financial) charges whatever your personal buyout is, which at least in the current market conditions, is usually a lot lower. The dealer doesn't have any involvement in that, and that is subject to change, but it's something you want to be aware of when choosing a bank. Personally, I'd rather pay a higher monthly payment to use CCAP than to deal with USBank.
 

Gunzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
53
Reaction score
79
Location
ATLANTA
Vehicle(s)
2021 JL
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think that should necessitate the deposit being non-refundable. Just make it forfeit if the buyer backs out due to price increase, but refundable if dealer fails or refuses to deliver approximating today's prices. They should be able to reach some kind of an agreement on the refund of the deposit.

Also, remember that when ordering a vehicle you can pretty much go to any dealership anywhere and work out a deal with them. It's not like they already have the car you want. Any dealer can order you the vehicle, so go with the dealer that makes it most worth your while to use them instead of their competitor.
 

mllcb42

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
970
Reaction score
1,416
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
4xe HA, 392XR
but refundable if dealer fails or refuses to deliver approximating today's prices.
I doubt you'd have a dealer agree to such a thing because the lease terms are completely out of their control. There are some dealers that won't even quote an estimate lease price on an order specifically because of the potential for things to change and not wanting to get into that debate.

Personally, if a dealer is willing to agree to a discount amount and no mark ups/add ons, that's all I think is a realistic ask.
 

Some Random Guy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Threads
61
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
2,157
Location
Washington
Vehicle(s)
2022 JL Sport, 2022 Ford Mustang
Occupation
Comptroller
With a lease, it is not directly comparable to a loan. This is why the Money Factor to APR conversion is dangerous. There are 2 easy things to track. One is Capitalization Cost. This is like your pre-Tax, Title, Licensing cost on a purchase. Residual value is your theoretical sell price at the end of the lease.
EVERYTHING else is Finance Costs. Interest (via MF), taxes, fees, etc. This is what you’re running into. A low MF lease sounds good, but if you’re “saving” $500 over the course of the lease on this vague APR equivalent, you might find that there is actually an extra $1k fee making up the difference that wasn’t in the comparable lease.
So how do we compare? The easiest way is to compare equivalent lease lengths and literally sum up the downpayment and monthly payments. Remember you’re paying for X years and Y miles of depreciation in either deal, so which one costs less? That’s probably the one you want.
From there, also filter out deals with terms you don’t like. Ask what happens if you want to sell it to a dealer to get equity before or at lease end. Is that allowed or do they force you to buy it out yourself? There are tax implications there. Deposit refund-ability terms can also go into this sorting deals in and out.
Sorry for long post, this is hard to explain on a forum.
Sponsored

 
 



Top