Leasing - help needed

calin

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Hi all,

Started looking for a jeep a month ago, spent so many hours researching in different places. Somehow I found this forum, joined few days ago, and in 3-4 hours I found more info here than I could have probably found in 2 months of unstructured research, thank you all for the great info and sense of community!

I have some questions about leasing;
1) those great discounts below invoice (up to 8%) are those available for leasing?
2) anyone has the residual values matrix? 36, 42, 48 months for 10k, 12k, 15k miles
3) what is the money factor these days (I have excelent credit, over 800)
4) if I lease from a certain dealer (let's say MD) can I service and return the lease where I live (CT)
5) what are some of the dealer taxes? I seen different names conveyance (~$300), dealer fee (500)
6) any other things that I should now about leasing a Wrangler?

Time to give back, if anyone needs help with calculating leases, feel free to reach out, I have a great leasing model and can help/teach you how to use it

Best





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Whiskey 13

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I have only leased one vehicle and it so happens to have been a wrangler and it was also more than 20 years ago so my experience would be dated at best. The experience of leasing in general turned me off, I will never lease again. At the end of my lease they nit picked the Jeep to death so I just bought it which was alright because I loved it and ended up keeping it over 10 years.

With your great credit score I would think you could get a much better financial situation buying one verses leasing one and the plus is should you want to do any modifications it belongs to you not the lease company.
 

Oldbear

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Please don’t lease a Jeep. You’ll be making payments for a set of wheels you’ll never own. Dealers love leases cause THEY make a ton of $$ on them. Buy a Jeep, high resale value means it will be worth a good bitwhen you sell or trade it down the road..
 

GtX

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Please don’t lease a Jeep. You’ll be making payments for a set of wheels you’ll never own. Dealers love leases cause THEY make a ton of $$ on them. Buy a Jeep, high resale value means it will be worth a good bitwhen you sell or trade it down the road..
This right here is valuable advise.
 

TheRaven

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Please don’t lease a Jeep. You’ll be making payments for a set of wheels you’ll never own. Dealers love leases cause THEY make a ton of $$ on them. Buy a Jeep, high resale value means it will be worth a good bitwhen you sell or trade it down the road..
Bad advice. Wranglers are FANTASTIC choices for leasing. High residual vehicles are exactly what you want for leasing. There are examples all over the net of smart leasers who have driven a car for free for 2-3 years because of leasing. With the explosive demand for Wranglers only getting bigger and bigger every year, you can lease a Wrangler, sell off the lease before it ends, pocket a big pile of cash, and then start the process over again.

Now for the OP's Questions:

1) those great discounts below invoice (up to 8%) are those available for leasing?

Yes. Both Koons and Criswell will allow you to lease using their discounts. HOWEVER, the terms are tricky. If you choose to lease, you will have to sacrifice some discount (usually 2%) or you will not be able to get the lowest lease rate. They both pad the rate to make some money on the back end...but if you take a smaller discount on the selling price, you can avoid that, and from my experience you will always make out better by sacrificing some discount for the better lease rate. You'll probably want to do the math though to make sure it holds true for your situation.

2) anyone has the residual values matrix? 36, 42, 48 months for 10k, 12k, 15k miles

Edmunds. Go to Google and type in "2021 Jeep Wrangler money factor". The first result will be the Edmunds leasing forum, where you can ask for the MF and RV for the vehicle and terms you want. They can only give you the Chrysler Capital numbers though, because the third party banks (Ally and USBank) do not publish their numbers. My recommendation is to stay away from the third part banks because they are generally a-holes.

3) what is the money factor these days (I have excelent credit, over 800)

See above, but on Wranglers its very high. Wranglers have very high residuals so there's no need for FCA to offer low rates.

4) if I lease from a certain dealer (let's say MD) can I service and return the lease where I live (CT)

Yes.

5) what are some of the dealer taxes? I seen different names conveyance (~$300), dealer fee (500)

Dealer fees vary widely from dealer to dealer. Don't automatically run from dealers just because of high fees though - Koons "doc fee" is the highest i've ever seen - $899, but you'll be hard pressed to beat the bottom line price even from dealers who have NO fees.
 
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ekohn00

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I'll add to the above, Do your research! Plan to call a few dealers.

I googled for a leasing calculator and MF, etc. Had these numbers ahead of calling around. It took 3 dealers before I found one to work near my calculations.
 

GtX

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@Oldbear and I are probably wrong.
Lease away. :like:
 

TheRaven

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@Oldbear and I are probably wrong.
Lease away. :like:
Nah, don't feel bad. There is a negative stigma around leasing that has existed for decades. You are probably in the majority for still thinking that way. Fact is that if you are good with math and know what you are doing going in, you can do even better with leasing than with buying, and come out having experienced NONE of the negatives. But if you aren't smart about it, you can get into trouble quickly. But really, standard financing is no different. People in general just have more experience with standard financing because it's something we use all over the place, not just for vehicles.
 
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calin

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Bad advice. Wranglers are FANTASTIC choices for leasing. High residual vehicles are exactly what you want for leasing. There are examples all over the net of smart leasers who have driven a car for free for 2-3 years because of leasing. With the explosive demand for Wranglers only getting bigger and bigger every year, you can lease a Wrangler, sell off the lease before it ends, pocket a big pile of cash, and then start the process over again.

Now for the OP's Questions:

1) those great discounts below invoice (up to 8%) are those available for leasing?

Yes. Both Koons and Criswell will allow you to lease using their discounts. HOWEVER, the terms are tricky. If you choose to lease, you will have to sacrifice some discount (usually 2%) or you will not be able to get the lowest lease rate. They both pad the rate to make some money on the back end...but if you take a smaller discount on the selling price, you can avoid that, and from my experience you will always make out better by sacrificing some discount for the better lease rate. You'll probably want to do the math though to make sure it holds true for your situation.

2) anyone has the residual values matrix? 36, 42, 48 months for 10k, 12k, 15k miles

Edmunds. Go to Google and type in "2021 Jeep Wrangler money factor". The first result will be the Edmunds leasing forum, where you can ask for the MF and RV for the vehicle and terms you want. They can only give you the Chrysler Capital numbers though, because the third party banks (Ally and USBank) do not publish their numbers. My recommendation is to stay away from the third part banks because they are generally a-holes.

3) what is the money factor these days (I have excelent credit, over 800)

See above, but on Wranglers its very high. Wranglers have very high residuals so there's no need for FCA to offer low rates.

4) if I lease from a certain dealer (let's say MD) can I service and return the lease where I live (CT)

Yes.

5) what are some of the dealer taxes? I seen different names conveyance (~$300), dealer fee (500)

Dealer fees vary widely from dealer to dealer. Don't automatically run from dealers just because of high fees though - Koons "doc fee" is the highest i've ever seen - $899, but you'll be hard pressed to beat the bottom line price even from dealers who have NO fees.
Thanks TheRaven, I totally agree, Wranglers are great candidates for leasing (very high RVs), if you can get a great deal (I used to be in Finance, and have my own model, the car guys usually hate it, they try to give me a final number, I keep asking them for price, RV, MF, etc)

I'm very close to get one, the problem is that the MF is so damn high!! I hate paying 5%, when the interest rates are almost 0%. And they keep quoting me only Ally and US Bank, claiming that Chrysler is much worst! which is not true, but probably they make more from those banks! This month Chrysler Capital is waving the acquisition fee, I still can't find a decent source for the MF for an excelent credit.......with MF so high, you end-up paying more in interest, than you actually pay for the car depreciation.
 

TheRaven

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I'm very close to get one, the problem is that the MF is so damn high!! I hate paying 5%, when the interest rates are almost 0%. And they keep quoting me only Ally and US Bank, claiming that Chrysler is much worst! which is not true, but probably they make more from those banks! This month Chrysler Capital is waving the acquisition fee, I still can't find a decent source for the MF for an excelent credit.......with MF so high, you end-up paying more in interest, than you actually pay for the car depreciation.
Yes the rates are terrible for the Wrangler because there is zero motivation for them to be good. When people are buying like they are with high rates, why would you lower the rates? Remember that in the end, it's the bottom line that matters...yes you pay a lot of interest, but when you compare the high MF, high residual Wrangler lease to a low MF, low residual, highly subsidized lease for something like a Grand Cherokee, you still come out paying less for what you get with the Wrangler. The money just takes a different route to get to it's destination. Furthermore, the Wrangler is guaranteed to beat its residual which means you can sell out of the lease (if you use CCAP) and pocket a chunk of cash. That won't happen with a Grand Cherokee.

I leased with CCAP...I just told the dealer that i'm not buying unless it's CCAP. They tried like mad to push me to USBank and I just told them i'd walk unless they could get me on CCAP. After my experiences with USBank and Ally, I will NEVER sign for ANY of their products again. I will walk away from a dream deal if I have to to avoid those a-holes.

I used the Edmunds leasing forum to get the CCAP rates (it took until 11/10 to get November rates) then built my own lease example and told them "i'm ready to sign on these numbers, let me know if there's a mistake in there". They were really confused until they ran the numbers themselves...then came back with a bewildered look and a "we have a deal!". The F&I guy said "I have to admit i've never seen that...you knew the numbers better than we did". The salesman also said "surprisingly CCAP actually turned out to be the better deal when we ran the numbers", but I don't buy that for a second...they were getting a bigger kickback from USBank and that's why they pushed so hard. They're not used to customers that know their tricks...so if you do, you're at a huge advantage.
 

tts42572

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What I was going to say.

I think leases can make sense in some situations. I mean, my wife leases a car and has for years. It works well for her as she's always in warranty. But I honestly don't think she's ever paid over about $250 a month for anything she's had (Equinox's and currently a Blazer). In her case she keeps a low payment and really hasn't had to worry about much maintenance at all.

I just my my JLUR a couple weeks ago and debated leasing. But the lease payments were going to be high. And I'd like to keep my Jeep for 5-6 years as long as it serves me well. And with Jeeps being pretty high residual vehicles, I felt like I'd be better off buying it.

At the end of the day, these things generally come out pretty close . I think it's mostly a matter of looking at how long you really want to hold the vehicle and cash flow. I guess I feel like a Jeep is a much better investment for me than something like an Equinox. So I'll lease an Equinox for a cheap price and happily turn it back over. But I'm not paying $500 a month for a lease on a Jeep and handing it back.

Please don’t lease a Jeep. You’ll be making payments for a set of wheels you’ll never own. Dealers love leases cause THEY make a ton of $$ on them. Buy a Jeep, high resale value means it will be worth a good bitwhen you sell or trade it down the road..
 

TheRaven

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I guess I feel like a Jeep is a much better investment for me than something like an Equinox. So I'll lease an Equinox for a cheap price and happily turn it back over. But I'm not paying $500 a month for a lease on a Jeep and handing it back.
This I agree with...it's a personal choice but I won't pay $500 a month for a vehicle PERIOD. Never have.

One little note though - there is nothing that says you must "hand back" your Jeep at the end of the lease. In fact it would be a pretty dumb choice for a Wrangler. You'd be insane not to buy it out whether you plan to keep it or not.
 

dalema

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Yes the rates are terrible for the Wrangler because there is zero motivation for them to be good. When people are buying like they are with high rates, why would you lower the rates? Remember that in the end, it's the bottom line that matters...yes you pay a lot of interest, but when you compare the high MF, high residual Wrangler lease to a low MF, low residual, highly subsidized lease for something like a Grand Cherokee, you still come out paying less for what you get with the Wrangler. The money just takes a different route to get to it's destination. Furthermore, the Wrangler is guaranteed to beat its residual which means you can sell out of the lease (if you use CCAP) and pocket a chunk of cash. That won't happen with a Grand Cherokee.

I leased with CCAP...I just told the dealer that i'm not buying unless it's CCAP. They tried like mad to push me to USBank and I just told them i'd walk unless they could get me on CCAP. After my experiences with USBank and Ally, I will NEVER sign for ANY of their products again. I will walk away from a dream deal if I have to to avoid those a-holes.

I used the Edmunds leasing forum to get the CCAP rates (it took until 11/10 to get November rates) then built my own lease example and told them "i'm ready to sign on these numbers, let me know if there's a mistake in there". They were really confused until they ran the numbers themselves...then came back with a bewildered look and a "we have a deal!". The F&I guy said "I have to admit i've never seen that...you knew the numbers better than we did". The salesman also said "surprisingly CCAP actually turned out to be the better deal when we ran the numbers", but I don't buy that for a second...they were getting a bigger kickback from USBank and that's why they pushed so hard. They're not used to customers that know their tricks...so if you do, you're at a huge advantage.
I understand leasing pretty well (also have my own model ;) ) - curious for insights on selling before the lease ends. Is it best to wait until the lease ends or to buy it out before the lease ends. Haven’t done that before so interested in how you calculate each?

also, being in CA a big advantage of leasing is not paying all the sales tax, and not paying it up front. Any insight into what happens with sales tax in either of the buy out scenarios?

I avoid going into the dealer for the negotiation, but a serious dealer will send you a screen shot (or a photo if they say they are not allowed to) of their purchase/financing screen that will clearly show all of the inputs you need to see - MF, detailed fees etc. When doing that I ask for the “buy rate“ on the MF - they know what you mean. Get a couple of them and match up to what the Edmunds forum is telling you and you have all the info you need to make an informed decision.

oh - and never put money down!
 
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calin

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Yes the rates are terrible for the Wrangler because there is zero motivation for them to be good. When people are buying like they are with high rates, why would you lower the rates? Remember that in the end, it's the bottom line that matters...yes you pay a lot of interest, but when you compare the high MF, high residual Wrangler lease to a low MF, low residual, highly subsidized lease for something like a Grand Cherokee, you still come out paying less for what you get with the Wrangler. The money just takes a different route to get to it's destination. Furthermore, the Wrangler is guaranteed to beat its residual which means you can sell out of the lease (if you use CCAP) and pocket a chunk of cash. That won't happen with a Grand Cherokee.

I leased with CCAP...I just told the dealer that i'm not buying unless it's CCAP. They tried like mad to push me to USBank and I just told them i'd walk unless they could get me on CCAP. After my experiences with USBank and Ally, I will NEVER sign for ANY of their products again. I will walk away from a dream deal if I have to to avoid those a-holes.

I used the Edmunds leasing forum to get the CCAP rates (it took until 11/10 to get November rates) then built my own lease example and told them "i'm ready to sign on these numbers, let me know if there's a mistake in there". They were really confused until they ran the numbers themselves...then came back with a bewildered look and a "we have a deal!". The F&I guy said "I have to admit i've never seen that...you knew the numbers better than we did". The salesman also said "surprisingly CCAP actually turned out to be the better deal when we ran the numbers", but I don't buy that for a second...they were getting a bigger kickback from USBank and that's why they pushed so hard. They're not used to customers that know their tricks...so if you do, you're at a huge advantage.

Thank you,

At Edmunds I could find only the RV, still can't get the latest MF (for Nov someone told me to use 0.00205). I tried calling Chrysler Capital and ask them directly, I told them I have excelent credit (over 800), but some of the people there are either not that smart, either they really don't know it (which I doubt). I'm same like you, know the math, just need the right inputs.

Can you take a look at the attached and let me know if the math flows right? thanks
 

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TheRaven

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curious for insights on selling before the lease ends. Is it best to wait until the lease ends or to buy it out before the lease ends. Haven’t done that before so interested in how you calculate each?
It's different in every situation. My suggestion is to keep an eye on your vehicle's value vs. your payoff regularly...every six months for example. You can get exact values now thanks to Carvana and Vroom (they'll tell you what they'll ACTUALLY pay, not some estimation that no dealer will match). This way you can take advantage of any big delta in your favor. This is exactly how I ended up with my 2020 Scat Pack in fact...the end of September was the anniversary of the purchase of my former 2015 Cadillac XTS that I bought used in 2017, and I found that I had an EXTRA $3200 in equity over what I should have had. I really wanted to get that money out of it somehow, but going used meant I would have to put it right back into the next car...so I set out on a hunt for something new I could get (since new cars are limited by MSRP) for about the same payment without needing a huge down payment. I ended up with the Challenger (big change, I know) because of my credit union and the Power Dollars + Koons combination. My payment stayed almost the same and I walked away with $2200 plus a brand new car.

You can buy out of your lease at any time, just request the payoff from the bank. That works exactly like a loan. One thing to note however is that only the captive banks are happy to do this. Third parties like USBank and Ally do not like it and will do everything they can to keep you in your lease until the end. For this reason I refuse to use any of their products. But your payoff is always the pre-calculated residual plus whatever payments you have left. If that sum is less than what you can get for the vehicle, then you walk away with money in your pocket...no different than traditional financing.

also, being in CA a big advantage of leasing is not paying all the sales tax, and not paying it up front. Any insight into what happens with sales tax in either of the buy out scenarios?
This is an important distinction to make - like you, I also live in a tax-on-payment state. In tax-on-value states leasing kinda sucks. But for us, we are only taxed on payments that are made. So if you lease for three years and then buy out the vehicle, you are still paying tax on the entire vehicle. You pay tax on each payment, then you pay tax on the buyout. The only time you can avoid it is when you sell out the lease to a dealer. They don't pay sales tax. So then you would have only paid tax on the payments you made.
 
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