Latest Used Oil Analysis at 7k miles!

[BacavilleJL]

My preference is to stay away from Fram oil filters. Have heard of many problems with Fram over the years. I go with a NAPA Gold which is made by Wix.

I also change my 3.6l with Mobil 1 every 5k miles, with an initial 1k oil/filter change.

I agree on the Napa gold oil filters. My brother worked at a Napa store for 10 years. They took apart some oil filters. They were not
impressed with the Fram filters.

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[DanW]

I agree on the Napa gold oil filters. My brother worked at a Napa store for 10 years. They took apart some oil filters. They were not
impressed with the Fram filters.

Those are old base orange can filters. I've seen a number of them opened up more recently and they look fine. Btw, I think even the rock bottom orange Fram Xtraguard outperforms the Wix in filtering efficiency.

The Frams I use in my vehicles are Ultraguards. They are better made and have far better filtering media. I've torn one apart with more than 10k miles of abuse in my wife's 3.5 Ecoboost and it looked great. Try taking apart a new Ultraguard cartridge filter for the 3.6. It took pliars for me to get the media to tear. It is a VERY strong media and is backed by a nylon or polymer webbing. (In the can version, the backing is metal.) I'm convinced there is no pressure that the 3.6 engine can generate that could damage that filter media. It is far stronger than others I've torn apart, including Purolator, Mopar, and AC Delco. On top of all that, it flat destroys the Wix/Napa filters in performance in industry standard tests, with the Fram Ultra filtering 99+% single pass down to 20 microns. No filter publishes better data. Call Wix and ask them what their filtering efficiency rating is calculated to be. I'm pretty sure I remember them telling me 99% at 35 microns. A Fram engineer on BITOG posted that the actual number for the Ultraguard is 99% at 16 microns and 80% at 5 microns.

The only oil filter I've heard of that matches those numbers are the old Purolator PureOne filters. I am sure they've changed, but I quit running them after looking at the filter media on their cartridge filters in the 2.4 Ecotec in the Solstice I used to own. It looked like it was fraying after only a few thousand miles.

I'll be running a Mobil 1 filter next, as I picked up a dozen of them for 4 bucks each at Walmart on clearance. They filter at 99% down to 30 microns, so even Mobil 1's flagship filter won't perform as well as the Fram Ultra.

Run what you want. They are all good enough, as the 3.6 is pretty easy on oil. But if you want the best performance this side of an expensive custom bypass filter, the Fram Ultra appears to have the best performance. I'll be running those M1 filters because
$4 bucks was too hard to pass up and it is still an outstanding filter.

Btw, the test used for those results are a standard industry test used by all of the filter manufacturers, so it isn't just marketing BS. From the sound of the Fram engineer, the Ultra's marketing of its efficiency looks slightly conservative.

 

[JimLee]

So all this begs the question of how far down in size (microns) do we need to actually filter out. The problem with high efficiency filters in other applications is that by filtering smaller particles with the same overall surface area they clog up faster and need to be changed more often. Are these ultra high efficiency oil filters clogging up and going into bypass where they filter nothing at all before we change them? Is filtering below a certain level just a waste of filter life?

 

[Arterius2]

So all this begs the question of how far down in size (microns) do we need to actually filter out. The problem with high efficiency filters in other applications is that by filtering smaller particles with the same overall surface area they clog up faster and need to be changed more often. Are these ultra high efficiency oil filters clogging up and going into bypass where they filter nothing at all before we change them? Is filtering below a certain level just a waste of filter life?

Ha, at the rate most of us are changing them (every 5k miles), I think clogging them is the least of the worries! I’ve really only seen filter getting clogged to the point of going into bypass when the owner fails to change them ever, maybe at like 100k miles! Which I think none of us is doing.

 

[srt20]

If you are clogging your oil filter at any amount of miles, your engine wont be making it home. Just saying.

I use Fram Ultra in my Durango with 3.6L. 10K oil change intervals.
In a work car that burns oil, I use Fram Ultra for 2 OCI's of 5K each.

Im not a brand loyal person to anything, but its damn hard to beat Fram Ultra filters for the price.

 

[DanW]

So all this begs the question of how far down in size (microns) do we need to actually filter out. The problem with high efficiency filters in other applications is that by filtering smaller particles with the same overall surface area they clog up faster and need to be changed more often. Are these ultra high efficiency oil filters clogging up and going into bypass where they filter nothing at all before we change them? Is filtering below a certain level just a waste of filter life?

Nope. First of all, they don't all necessarily have the same surface area. That varies. Secondly, as our friends just said, to cause any of these filters to clog to the point of going into full bypass would require a level of neglect that none of us would dare to even remotely approach. The Ultra and the Mobil 1, for example, are rated for 20k miles, so good luck clogging either of them.

Here is the data that proves it. Each of my UOA's, even the original on the Mopar filter, were at 0.2%. The Mopar filter had the least amount of miles on it, at 1500. The Ultra kept the insolubles at 0.2% after 7100 miles. I don't know how precise the measurement is for insolubles, but the max to be considered normal is 0.6. Anything over that and Blackstone will flag it. I think 0.2 after 7100 miles is an excellent performance. If it were going into bypass, the insolubles would measure significantly higher. Unfiltered oil will get above 0.6% very quickly and would probably exceed it by a wide margin.

I'm going to settle in for 5,000 mile oil changes now. I expect the current Ultra to perform at 0.2% or maybe even 0.1%. I'll then run a Mobil 1 filter on the next round. I wouldn't be shocked to see it perform the same. If it is worse, even at 0.3%, I'll be selling my stash of 12 remaining M1 filters over in the marketplace section. I doubt the difference is going to show up, though, because I don't think the Blackstone test is precise enough to tell. We'll see. It should make for some fascinating data or at least some continued fun conversation.

Btw, if I were as obsessive as I may seem, I wouldn't bother running the M1 filters, even if they were free. I'm just curious and fascinated by it all.

Here is a pic of the torn apart media from the M1 filter. This one had just over 4k miles on it and looks really clean and good. The Ultra with 7,100 miles on it looks almost identical. It is sitting in a baggie in my garage for future comparison. It clearly had LOTS of life left in it and leads me to believe one of these things just might be able to pull off the claimed 20k interval. I won't be the one to try that, though. Not with my engine. (I have run an Ultra XG3614 in my JK for 2 oil changes, which is 12k miles. That old 3.8 still runs like brand new at 132k miles. It is smooth and quiet. It just uses lots of oil, like most Chrysler 3.8's.)

Here is the mesh, partially torn off of the filter media. It took tremendous pulling with pliars to separate them. I was shocked at how hard it was. It is VERY well bonded.

 

[DanW]

A couple more things, since I am sitting here bored....I only have 2k miles on the current oil change, so don't hold your breath for the next set of results. It'll be a little while, unless I take a trip or two. I know I'm going to Oshkosh in July for the air show. I hope to do a couple other trips this summer, too, but work might prevent that. Turkey Bay at Land Between the Lakes is on my short list, as is a longer trip up to Drummond Island, Michigan. I also may try to go to Tennessee to run the trails at Windrock, at some point. At any rate, I expect the next change to come in September. The end of August would probably be earliest. Then, next Spring would be the first chance to tear apart a Mobil 1 filter, unless someone beats me to it.

The oils I've run are: Factory fill (Pennzoil Gold?) 2k miles, then Mobil 1 EP, 3260 miles, then Mobil 1 AP for two runs, the first at 4200 miles and the second at 7100. All but the factory fill were run with Ultras. The current run is with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and an Ultra filter. All oil weights have been 0w20.

I might run Quaker State Ultimate Durability next time, but may go back to Mobil 1 EP or AP. I haven't decided. I also want to see how the UOA turns out for the Pennzoil Ultra. The Quaker State appears to be the best bang for the buck right now. Shell Rotella Gas Truck has a $10 rebate, so it might be in play, too. Mobil 1 EP or AP are still my favs, though. I just want to see what the engine tells me it likes best with the UOA's, now that break-in has passed, before settling in on one brand for the long haul.

Just in case anyone is curious, I'm running Valvoline synthetic gear lube in the diffs, Castrol ATF+4 in the transfer case, and I haven't changed the transmission fluid yet. That's coming soon and will probably be Castrol ATF+4. I changed the diffs and T-case fluid before going to Moab last October. I won't change those again probably until they have 30k miles on them.

 

[srt20]

A couple more things, since I am sitting here bored....I only have 2k miles on the current oil change, so don't hold your breath for the next set of results. It'll be a little while, unless I take a trip or two. I know I'm going to Oshkosh in July for the air show. I hope to do a couple other trips this summer, too, but work might prevent that. Turkey Bay at Land Between the Lakes is on my short list, as is a longer trip up to Drummond Island, Michigan. I also may try to go to Tennessee to run the trails at Windrock, at some point. At any rate, I expect the next change to come in September. The end of August would probably be earliest. Then, next Spring would be the first chance to tear apart a Mobil 1 filter, unless someone beats me to it.

The oils I've run are: Factory fill (Pennzoil Gold?) 2k miles, then Mobil 1 EP, 3260 miles, then Mobil 1 AP for two runs, the first at 4200 miles and the second at 7100. All but the factory fill were run with Ultras. The current run is with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and an Ultra filter. All oil weights have been 0w20.

I might run Quaker State Ultimate Durability next time, but may go back to Mobil 1 EP or AP. I haven't decided. I also want to see how the UOA turns out for the Pennzoil Ultra. The Quaker State appears to be the best bang for the buck right now. Shell Rotella Gas Truck has a $10 rebate, so it might be in play, too. Mobil 1 EP or AP are still my favs, though. I just want to see what the engine tells me it likes best with the UOA's, now that break-in has passed, before settling in on one brand for the long haul.

Just in case anyone is curious, I'm running Valvoline synthetic gear lube in the diffs, Castrol ATF+4 in the transfer case, and I haven't changed the transmission fluid yet. That's coming soon and will probably be Castrol ATF+4. I changed the diffs and T-case fluid before going to Moab last October. I won't change those again probably until they have 30k miles on them.

I had a truck that required ATF+4 for the trans. After doing the research, all ATF+4 are exactly the same as required by FCA who came up with the ATF+4 formula. So to be labeled ATF+4 it has to be exactly as FCA designed. So the cheapest ATF+4 is the exact same as the most expensive ATF+4. Ive found that Supertech was the cheapest.

Also as a side note, just from my own personal experiences, I have found Amsoil Severe duty gear oil to be the absolute best gear oil on the market. I used many different gear oils in a racing application for 10+years. That Amsoil gear oil was far and away the best. Every single oil we used we had failures. Not one failure with the Amsoil. Again, this was in an extreme high heat, high stress, application. This may or may not interest you, but I thought I would mention it since it appears you also like to use high quality products in your vehicles.

Im not pushing Amsoil either, I only use their gear oil and their shock oil. In fact, IMO their 2 stroke oils are crap.

 

[DanW]

I had a truck that required ATF+4 for the trans. After doing the research, all ATF+4 are exactly the same as required by FCA who came up with the ATF+4 formula. So to be labeled ATF+4 it has to be exactly as FCA designed. So the cheapest ATF+4 is the exact same as the most expensive ATF+4. Ive found that Supertech was the cheapest.

Also as a side note, just from my own personal experiences, I have found Amsoil Severe duty gear oil to be the absolute best gear oil on the market. I used many different gear oils in a racing application for 10+years. That Amsoil gear oil was far and away the best. Every single oil we used we had failures. Not one failure with the Amsoil. Again, this was in an extreme high heat, high stress, application. This may or may not interest you, but I thought I would mention it since it appears you also like to use high quality products in your vehicles.

Im not pushing Amsoil either, I only use their gear oil and their shock oil. In fact, IMO their 2 stroke oils are crap.

Good to know! I picked up something like 8 quarts of Castrol ATF+4 on clearance at an auto store for something like two for 9 bucks. I've looked at the Amsoil gear oil. I really like the soft packs. They'd be easy to fill the diffs without having to use the messy little pump attached to the bottle. I'll likley pick some of that up for the next round. The nice thing about the JL Rubi is that the diffs take less gear oil than the JK's D44's, so it is less expensive to fill.

Supertech products in my area (they can differ based on geographic regions) are made by Warren Distribution. They make good stuff on the cheap. They also make Amazon Basics. In 0w20, Amazon Basics is 22 bucks a 5 qt jug while Supertech is about $16. Hard to beat that.

 

[DanW]

Update...The manual transmission now has new NAPA (Valvoline) ATF+4 in it. I also filled the T-case with Castrol ATF+4. Today I'll be putting some Valvoline 75w90 gear lube in the front diff and she's good for the next 20 to 30k, which is the window I like to use for drive train components.

This JL is the easiest to maintain of any vehicle I've owned, in terms of ease of access to drain and fill holes. (No, I'm not talking about things like spark plugs, alternator and such. Those look a bit tightly packed.)

 

[AZpueblo]

I have been running UOAs on all of my SRT Challengers (these are the 6.4L and 2 Hellcat 6.2 SCs, and actually all of my vehicles) for many years. The SRT engineers, for the SRT approved Pennzoil 0W40 synth, specifically formulated high Molybdenum in that blend as it is a friction modifier (moly has one of the lowest coefficients of friction). The PPM numbers typically run in that 280 range. I wonder if you're seeing a bit higher iron numbers due to the much lower moly content in the M1. At least for the 0W40, the Pennzoil has 4x the moly of the Mobil 1 Euro 0w40, but based on your factory fill numbers, I'm guessing that the 0W20 Pennzoil might be high in moly too (compared to the M1). Just a thought, but when I change my factory fill (only 1K miles on it now), I'll pull the usual sample and refill with the Pennz Synth 0W20.

 

[Jimmy_jak]

Is this Blackstone report their normal standard oil test? I want to get this done.

 

[DanW]

Is this Blackstone report their normal standard oil test? I want to get this done.

Yep. Post it up when you do it. They'll send you the test kits for free. I'm still 4k or so away from my next one. I'm going to either go with the OLM or change it in late May, so it is whichever comes first. I'm currently running Mobil 1 AP 0w20 and a Mobil 1 filter.

There are other labs out there, too and they each have their own signature features and advantages. I tend to like Blackstone because they are local to me and they tend to give more comentary than others.

 

[Jimmy_jak]

Yep. Post it up when you do it. They'll send you the test kits for free. I'm still 4k or so away from my next one. I'm going to either go with the OLM or change it in late May, so it is whichever comes first. I'm currently running Mobil 1 AP 0w20 and a Mobil 1 filter.

There are other labs out there, too and they each have their own signature features and advantages. I tend to like Blackstone because they are local to me and they tend to give more comentary than others.

Yep, just sent off for the kit. I will have around 6k miles in a week at my next (2nd) oil change.

Definitely going to post results.

 

[Trauma Jeep]

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