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Keep Me Sane: Death Wobble Has Me Considering Selling

ODDs

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If you have replaced the steering stabilizer on a stock jeep twice in 2 years, you probably have an underlying condition that needs to be fixed.
I agree, but it is apparent that it's not going to be dealer who figures it out. I'll probably need to find an off-road shop.
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matrix311

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Any update? Did you get it fixed?
 

smokeythecat

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Hmm. Not one mention of gyroscopic precession...the primary force acting on the axle. You know ... the force that is pushing the axle left and right. The force that is magnified with increased rotating mass and diameter.
For a good demo of gyroscopic precession:
 

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I know its a lot to ask but FCA should beef up the front to stop this or it will cost them. Or maybe they don't care and enjoy their niche?

I realize these vehicles are the past and they're looking (being forced) to the future.
 

panda234

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I know its a lot to ask but FCA should beef up the front to stop this or it will cost them. Or maybe they don't care and enjoy their niche?

I realize these vehicles are the past and they're looking (being forced) to the future.
They've been making Wranglers with significant death wobble issues since the JK came out in 2007. Since they haven't fixed it already, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Stellantis to take care of the problem.
 

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Ted Striker

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I'm almost (almost) with OP on this one. The death wobble on my JT with 21,000 miles is driving me crazy trying to figure out what's causing it. I have put my hand on a tightened every nut and bolt possible on the front. Every torque mark from the suspension install (Clayton 2.5") is in the same place. The steering box is steel, not aluminum. I've had my wife turn the wheels back and forth with me under it looking for anything loose or clunking to no avail.

Between this and the incessant whine coming from my rear gears (5.13 Yukon, a whole other story in itself), it makes me thing sometimes that I wish that I didn't love everything else about it and how much I've put into making it mine that I could just easily get rid of it.
 

RubiRob

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I'm almost (almost) with OP on this one. The death wobble on my JT with 21,000 miles is driving me crazy trying to figure out what's causing it. I have put my hand on a tightened every nut and bolt possible on the front. Every torque mark from the suspension install (Clayton 2.5") is in the same place. The steering box is steel, not aluminum. I've had my wife turn the wheels back and forth with me under it looking for anything loose or clunking to no avail.

Between this and the incessant whine coming from my rear gears (5.13 Yukon, a whole other story in itself), it makes me thing sometimes that I wish that I didn't love everything else about it and how much I've put into making it mine that I could just easily get rid of it.

Long story short, I have a similar issue with AEV lift and Clayton front lowers and track bar. Removing the Clayton stuff for the OEM stuff resulted in no more wobbles. Sounds like you had a smilier issue to mine outside of mine just being a wobble in the steering that goes away.. only with certain bumps. Ive seen 3 other people saying a similar issue with Clayton stuff where everything is installed correctly and even verified. Perhaps try throwing on the original arms/track bar and see if it fixes It like it did for me?
 

Old Jeeper

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I agree, but it is apparent that it's not going to be dealer who figures it out. I'll probably need to find an off-road shop.
ROFLMAO!!!

How did I learn to fix DW and I mean fix it perm!

After several weeks of going to every OFF ROAD shop in Phoenix AZ and hearing: Yea, Sure, We can do it, You Betcha, We are EXPERTS and on and on.

Not a SINGLE Jeep shop fixed it. In half the shop I drove out as spending $$$ and time I went a few blocks I had DW, circled the block and drove in and got my money back and the parts are taken OFF!

Looked in the mirror and said you are an engineer now YOU FIX IT! Crawled under the Jeep, laid there for almost 4 hrs. Got up, ordered parts, they came in, fired up my Miller (welder), and fixed it. NEVER had DW again for the next 6 years and then sold it with almost 100k miles.

The Fix: You are not going to do this, but I will tell you what I did. I was a hard-core rock-wheeler.

I changed my steering architecture. I did High Steer putting it above the Axle tube line, all the rods were STRAIGHT and PARALLEL to the axle and the ground. Cut off my steering box and rotated it to align with the tie rod, Cut off my Track rod connection at the frame and built a box and used a double-shear johnny joint.

Why does Jeep not do it? Dunno, but its not expensive, and took the better part of a day to finish it. But Jeep does bent rod suspension like almost every automaker and with Y connections and single shear. > cheaper and faster, just not better.

I have not looked under my JLR to see what the front suspension looks like, but my guess is not far off what the past coil spring Jeeps look like.

That said here is a TIP:

The INSTANT you get DW, if at all possible STOP and IMMEDIATELY replace the SS as quickly as possible. WHY: Every action that DW cases only impacts the rest of the steering components making them more prone to contribute to more DW.

Think of DW as a CANCER and its malignant, meaning it spreads to more components as it continues.

I would replace your Track bar and get a HD SS at the least.

Also check and confirm your alignment, (do have NON-OEM tires), check your caster and psi in your tires, look for a leaking or failed front shock, and confirm your tires are IN BALANCE.

Take these action ASAP!!!!! and in most cases it will be resolved.
 

AnnDee4444

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Worn parts can cause deathwobble, but ultimately I believe the JL's design flaw is the weak track bar mount. Also the steering box could have been adjusted better from the factory to eliminate slop.

Steering angle is defined by the drag link's relative position to the track bar. A small change between the two links results in noticeable steering angle change. For example, when re-centering a steering wheel only one turn on the adjuster rotates the steering wheel a lot, even though the difference between the two links only changed about 1/16".

A steering damper is an attempt to control the movement difference between the track bar & drag link. When oscillation starts it attempts to slow it to a stop. Tire size/pressure, bushing deflection, suspension geometry, vehicle weight, etc. are all factors that can change the oscillation rate. This is why different solutions work for different people... what they are doing is shifting when & where the uncontrolled link movement happens to parameters that are outside normal operating conditions. But in my opinion better control of the links is the correct fix. Don't allow oscillation to start... reinforce the mounts and remove the uncontrolled link movement so that the steering damper has less (or nothing) to dampen.
 

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Worn parts can cause deathwobble, but ultimately I believe the JL's design flaw is the weak track bar mount. Also the steering box could have been adjusted better from the factory to eliminate slop.

Steering angle is defined by the drag link's relative position to the track bar. A small change between the two links results in noticeable steering angle change. For example, when re-centering a steering wheel only one turn on the adjuster rotates the steering wheel a lot, even though the difference between the two links only changed about 1/16".

A steering damper is an attempt to control the movement difference between the track bar & drag link. When oscillation starts it attempts to slow it to a stop. Tire size/pressure, bushing deflection, suspension geometry, vehicle weight, etc. are all factors that can change the oscillation rate. This is why different solutions work for different people... what they are doing is shifting when & where the uncontrolled link movement happens to parameters that are outside normal operating conditions. But in my opinion better control of the links is the correct fix. Don't allow oscillation to start... reinforce the mounts and remove the uncontrolled link movement so that the steering damper has less (or nothing) to dampen.
DW is NOT Isolated to Jeep. I got it in '69 on my new '69 Corvette, I have gotten on my Harley. In fact is far more common on motorcycles than one may think. Many cycles come with a Steering stablizer.

The CAUSE of DW:
Newtonā€™s Laws of Motion?
  1. An object at rest remains at rest, and an object in motion remains in motion at constant speed and in a straight line unless acted on by an unbalanced force.
  2. The acceleration of an object depends on the mass of the object and the amount of force applied.
  3. Whenever one object exerts a force on another object, the second object exerts an equal and opposite on the first.
You can manage it by changing the architecture as I did, and I prevented it from coming back by changing my SS once a year, never needed but it's a preventative maintenance action.

Here is the truth if you can handle it. Folk get DW and they post about it, they may or may not (most likely) do anything about it until it gets so severe it requires a LOT of $$$ to mitigate. I was on I 10 and got it I knew the next exit was a NAPA parts store. I pulled in righ then, bought a SS and changed in the parking lot. Prob mitigated.

Instead, most will do nothing but hope it goes away they will be in denial till what time it becomes so severe it's near undrivable.

I owned a Jeep off road shop for almost 10 years:

Can I help you?

Yes I have DW can you fix it?

HOW LONG have you had it?

Almost a month!

Ok, its gonna need some part, SS for sure and probably a Track bar and hopefully that is all.

OK, I am back I got a new SS put on and it did nothing?

I look and it a WeBe Shocks made in China.

Well its Chinese and its leaking oil already, oh and your Track bar now has play in it.

3 mo later he still fighting it, driving his wifes car or taking uber.


On customer delayed so long I had to replace even his ball joints. Here is how I do it. I replace SS, drive it (feels great) DONE. Not so good, replace track bar drive it and feels good not so good and keep relacing til get to the ball joints.

Remeber this: Everything that hangs down under the frame can be a contributor to DW, from your tires to the SS...ball joints, wheel bearings, EVERY THING!!!! Its cancer, day 1 DW is the day of your first treatment to mitigate or it will migrate across your suspension.

MYTH: Leafspring Jeeps before coil springs in 97 did NOT get DW. They CAN and they DO! The Bushings get completely shot o the U bolts will loosen a bit, not common, but not rare as some think.

I put myself thrui college as a mechanic, my specialty: Jeeps and Corvettes
 

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Old Jeeper

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šŸ‘† Believe this!
This topic is discussed just as much on the F-Superduty forums.
I am over on FTE, I think they are the biggest and they have at least 2 Ford Engineers that are active over there, most folks don't know that they don't advertise they work in Kentucky. I talk with them in PMs...

My current F 450 KR, no DW, YET!
Jeep Wrangler JL Keep Me Sane: Death Wobble Has Me Considering Selling IMG_2627.JPG
 

Tncdrew

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I am over on FTE, I think they are the biggest and they have at least 2 Ford Engineers that are active over there, most folks don't know that they don't advertise they work in Kentucky. I talk with them in PMs...

My current F 450 KR, no DW, YET!
Jeep Wrangler JL Keep Me Sane: Death Wobble Has Me Considering Selling IMG_2627.JPG
Nice Truck Sir!
I'm also on those forums.
My little F350 7.3L gasser wants to be yours when it grows up šŸ˜‰

But I digress....

20210812_122310.jpg
 

Terpsmandan

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So I started to get some DW on my '22 JLURD with a Mopar lift and 37's when it started getting really cold (single digits). One thing that helped was to re-torque the lugs. My shop does not use torque sticks and hammers them on with the air impact. I have an older Kobalt that has 650 ft lbs of breakaway torque and it would not budge them. Now I have the new DeWalt DCF900 with 1400 ft lbs of breakaway torque. I reset the lugs at about 120. It has gotten better since. I was on the interstate this morning with the temps below zero and looking for bridge joints at 75. It wiggled a just a little bit, but no harmonically amplified oscillation.
 

ODDs

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ROFLMAO!!!

How did I learn to fix DW and I mean fix it perm!

After several weeks of going to every OFF ROAD shop in Phoenix AZ and hearing: Yea, Sure, We can do it, You Betcha, We are EXPERTS and on and on.

Not a SINGLE Jeep shop fixed it. In half the shop I drove out as spending $$$ and time I went a few blocks I had DW, circled the block and drove in and got my money back and the parts are taken OFF!

Looked in the mirror and said you are an engineer now YOU FIX IT! Crawled under the Jeep, laid there for almost 4 hrs. Got up, ordered parts, they came in, fired up my Miller (welder), and fixed it. NEVER had DW again for the next 6 years and then sold it with almost 100k miles.

The Fix: You are not going to do this, but I will tell you what I did. I was a hard-core rock-wheeler.

I changed my steering architecture. I did High Steer putting it above the Axle tube line, all the rods were STRAIGHT and PARALLEL to the axle and the ground. Cut off my steering box and rotated it to align with the tie rod, Cut off my Track rod connection at the frame and built a box and used a double-shear johnny joint.

Why does Jeep not do it? Dunno, but its not expensive, and took the better part of a day to finish it. But Jeep does bent rod suspension like almost every automaker and with Y connections and single shear. > cheaper and faster, just not better.

I have not looked under my JLR to see what the front suspension looks like, but my guess is not far off what the past coil spring Jeeps look like.

That said here is a TIP:

The INSTANT you get DW, if at all possible STOP and IMMEDIATELY replace the SS as quickly as possible. WHY: Every action that DW cases only impacts the rest of the steering components making them more prone to contribute to more DW.

Think of DW as a CANCER and its malignant, meaning it spreads to more components as it continues.

I would replace your Track bar and get a HD SS at the least.

Also check and confirm your alignment, (do have NON-OEM tires), check your caster and psi in your tires, look for a leaking or failed front shock, and confirm your tires are IN BALANCE.

Take these action ASAP!!!!! and in most cases it will be resolved.
Thanks for tip! This engineer might have to bust out his Hobart (Millerā€™s cheaper brother).

just kidding, Iā€™m not that motivated. Iā€™ll probably just keep replacing the steering stabilizers for the near term. actually the last updated mopar one has been doing fairly well. When that goes Iā€™ll put on a Fox TS. Iā€™ll take it as it comes after that. Maybe trackbar, then ball jointā€™s.

thanks for advice
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