Just saw my first Jeep 4xe

[misanthrope]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread!

Yup. Welcome to the interweb...
But don't worry. If you try to set the record, any record, straight, you will be met with resistance, rudeness and denial. Such is the post truth world.

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[lightsout]

This sums up my second post in this thread. How information regarding electric vehicles is so ridiculous that only some get, I get but am starting to lose breath with this. To those who like them for what they offer; tip my hat to you. But those with the mind set like four immediate family members of mine who were gen one Prius owners and pro electric ever since. I've come to realize they've jumped on a band wagon and are will to defend it to the end. From how their vehicle don't have the same emissions, where do they think the majority of their electricity comes from? It's from electricity that was just randomly generated free electricity? No such thing. How the batteries are recyclable? That alone is one of the biggest jokes I've heard of. I recycle, even pay more to; but I'm away where it goes, and most if it is to the same spot my trash is going. Which is better than energy used to ship most of our recycle to other countries where it then gets thrown in landfills. So the fact that they are recyclable is another joke. Carbon footprint? My carbon footprint will be trumped from the toxic waste from a battery powered vehicle. I don't want to get into the human made disasters that come from the carbon free electricity from windmills, dams, and solar panels. But I guess if you can't see the damage your doing it never happened right?

I will this end this once again that I get that electric vehicles are going to be here to stay and more power to those who like them from what they are. But this whole "GREEN" thing is bull shit, bull shit, bull shit. But I guess

.

If you do not understand technology and its intended use and disposal then you should not make foolish comments. The Battery packs have a 20 year + life and then they have only lost 30% of their energy storing capabilities. For example Telsa when batteries are at end of life (again this is when they only hold 70% charge estimated at 20 years), the battery packs are then repurposed for solar energy storage. which ties right in to the Tesla residential Solar systems. So when these batteries are replaced some day way in the future, there will be countless alternative uses for them without polluting the world. The only real unknown is potential new technology's.

 

[0II392II0]

If you do not understand technology and its intended use and disposal then you should not make foolish comments. The Battery packs have a 20 year + life and then they have only lost 30% of their energy storing capabilities. For example Telsa when batteries are at end of life (again this is when they only hold 70% charge estimated at 20 years), the battery packs are then repurposed for solar energy storage. which ties right in to the Tesla residential Solar systems. So when these batteries are replaced some day way in the future, there will be countless alternative uses for them without polluting the world. The only real unknown is potential new technology's.

Please enlighten me on what comment was foolish. Regardless of a batteries life when it dies they become toxic waste. Name anything in this world that is recyclable that actually has a high percentage of it's waste properly recycled. As far as technology getting pretty familiar with it, going to school for it. I think you meant my understanding of reusable energy. I included in each post I didn't have an issue with an electric vehicle and I'll broaden that to reusable energy. I what I have stated each time is that I do not like the it's all "Green" B.S. Is it a better option long term? I don't know and didn't debated that. If you still would like to say that my comments about batteries and mass solar panels having devastating long terms effects foolish. Then I will stand by my foolish comments that they will have negative long term effects as well. I do agree that with the technical advancements in batters they are becoming pretty impressive.

 

[Bumps Ahead]

OP, thank you for changing the title of the thread.....I hate my real Prius....HATE it, and so I easily comprehend the deragotory “Prius” and ”tree hugger” bullshit comments.....as I’ve said many myself in the past. I now realize not every Prius owner buys that POS to “save planet Earth”. I’m saving my own wallet with a “POS“ that averages 127 MPG over the last two years (14 mile commute, so all electric AND usually a free charge at work). So why do I own one? Money....plain and simple, it saves me cash on my commute, it’s reliable and I’ll drive it until it dies and then I’ll piss on it, cause I still hate it.....but I love my cash more....and it helps me pay for the things I really want...like a Jeep!

So why a 4XE? My wife’s got a ~10 mile commute, and my desire to 1) save more of my cash, 2) get some of your cash in the form of rebates and incentives (I don’t make the rules, just use them to my advantage, so go change the laws and quit griping at me) and 3) get a car that allows wife and I to get out (cause there is no way the Prius gets used for anything BUT a commute). I want to explore more of our backroads, earn my “trail scars” and make some great new Jeep “friends”, that’s why I am buying a 4XE. I’m not buying another ”Prius”, but if you want to call it that, that’s your right.....I’ll still give you the “Jeep Wave“ as we pass, hope you can do the same or you’ve just killed everything about this community that made me want to be apart of it.....this is either an exciting new chapter in Jeeps future, or the slow end of a community, we all help decide how this turns out

 

[No IFS]

I would’ve made the trim green instead of blue.

 

[Riviera]

I see both sides of this issue. Though I don't think it was necessary for people that don't want a 4xe to start calling people dumbasses. Those same people were offended when retaliation occurred. If you're not looking for a fight, don't start one.

Someone mentioned $30,000 replacement hybrid batteries, that's a bit of an exaggeration.
Since the Prius has been around for a while, in the aftermarket you can get a Prius battery for around $1500 or so, plus labor and possibly freight depending on where you live. Currently, the 4XE battery retails for $12,655. A princely sum no doubt, but I suspect after the 4xe has been around a while, the aftermarket will get in the game. Wranglers hold their value so well, that I don't think these are going to be scrapped over a need for a replacement hybrid battery.

I also saw someone mention that the spent hybrid batteries are "toxic waste". First of all, they get recycled, they're not put in a 55 gallon drum and buried in the desert. And as far as toxic chemicals go, coolant, trans fluid, transfer case and differential fluids, all hazardous waste, but there's been industries built up processing and repurposing these fluids. I find this argument akin to people that complain about how many birds get killed by windmills. Let's be truthful, if you're brining up that argument, you probably really don't give a shit about this, but you you heard this talking point and love trying to catch the uninformed off guard.

Personally, I wouldn't buy one, at least just yet. If I had my choice between the hybrid or a diesel, I'm not sure what I'd pick, but I certainly would unload it before the warranty was up. I don't even think the 4XE is that much better for the environment, but it's a step in the right direction and you have to crawl and walk before you can run.

Bottom line, if you want one, buy one. And conversely, if you don't want one, don't buy one and please don't bitch about people that did. For Pete's sake.

 

[CT_LFC]

So the title was changed from Prius to 4xe? Someone got offended?

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

What everyone seems to be missing is the drivability advantages of electric. Incredible torque, compact motor size, and simplicity. Battery technology is getting there...and recycling systems are already being implemented. Hybrid technology is merely a complex stepping stone to a more simple future...

 

[Oilburner]

I also saw someone mention that the spent hybrid batteries are "toxic waste". First of all, they get recycled, they're not put in a 55 gallon drum and buried in the desert.

Not so much-

 

[Goin2drt]

Not so much-

It is amazing and amusing though. All the pro green folks will tell you it is a bunch of mis information going on. They will regurgitate the narrative they have been fed as facts yet provide zero facts and data of their own. Then you will get the opposite side as well doing the same. Each side thinks their way is the fact based way And the other side is wrong. It is the new world we live in. All depends on where you get your info from, left side or the right side.

 

[Riviera]

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/what-happens-to-ev-and-hybrid-batteries.html

I wouldn't consider Edmunds a "leftist" source, but I appreciate all attempts to make facts partisan.

 

[jeepoch]

I see both sides of this issue. Though I don't think it was necessary for people that don't want a 4xe to start calling people dumbasses. Those same people were offended when retaliation occurred. If you're not looking for a fight, don't start one.

Someone mentioned $30,000 replacement hybrid batteries, that's a bit of an exaggeration.
Since the Prius has been around for a while, in the aftermarket you can get a Prius battery for around $1500 or so, plus labor and possibly freight depending on where you live. Currently, the 4XE battery retails for $12,655. A princely sum no doubt, but I suspect after the 4xe has been around a while, the aftermarket will get in the game. Wranglers hold their value so well, that I don't think these are going to be scrapped over a need for a replacement hybrid battery.

I also saw someone mention that the spent hybrid batteries are "toxic waste". First of all, they get recycled, they're not put in a 55 gallon drum and buried in the desert. And as far as toxic chemicals go, coolant, trans fluid, transfer case and differential fluids, all hazardous waste, but there's been industries built up processing and repurposing these fluids. I find this argument akin to people that complain about how many birds get killed by windmills. Let's be truthful, if you're brining up that argument, you probably really don't give a shit about this, but you you heard this talking point and love trying to catch the uninformed off guard.

Personally, I wouldn't buy one, at least just yet. If I had my choice between the hybrid or a diesel, I'm not sure what I'd pick, but I certainly would unload it before the warranty was up. I don't even think the 4XE is that much better for the environment, but it's a step in the right direction and you have to crawl and walk before you can run.

Bottom line, if you want one, buy one. And conversely, if you don't want one, don't buy one and please don't bitch about people that did. For Pete's sake.

@Riviera,

Here is some of the financial and economic science behind PHEV / EV battery replacement costs.

For the most part battery manufacturing new and refurbished prices have been coming down per kilowatt hour (kWh) over the last several years. A decade ago the price of a battery was about $1100 per kWh. Today it's sub $200 with a goal of sub $100 per kWh by 2023.

Now let's look at just the Jeep (Prius) 4xe the main point of this thread. It is currently available now with a 17.3 kWh battery. Let's be very conservative and say with today's replacement cost of $120 per kWh that yields 17 x 120 = $2040. In a few years (based on prediction) this may even be reduced to $1700. Maybe for some this is pocket change.

Based upon the current EPA 4xe estimate for 50 MPGe (refer to)

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Pow...del=Wrangler&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50

Jeep Wrangler 4xe specs:
Range (all-electric)
EPA: 21 miles (34 km) and 370 miles (595 km) total
17 kWh battery
Samsung SDI lithium-ion NMC cells; 96 cells total
0-60 mph (96.5 km/h) in 6 seconds
all-wheel drive
peak system output of 280 kW (375-hp) and 637 Nm (470 lb.-ft.) of torque
2.0-litre turbocharged gasoline I-4 engine with a high-voltage, liquid-cooled belt-connected motor generator unit, replacing the conventional alternator.
Motor generator unit (134 horsepower / 181 pound-foot) integrated into eight-speed automatic transmission.

Thanks to Marc (@mla575) for posting this in the following thead:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ge-mileage-epa-figures-published.68287/unread

Now, extrapolating to make the PHEV 4xe into a full blown EV, it will likely require around a 200 kWh rated battery. Making it's range somewhere in the neighborhood of a little over 250 miles total. Even at 2023 anticipated prices this would require 200 kWh x $100 per kWh = $20,000 ($20K). Certainly not pocket change!

One last note, the $100 kWh cost projection for 2023 may be inaccurate. The cost of Lithium for the current Lithium-Ion (LI-Ion) technology batteries is skyrocketing due to demand. Products based on any Rare Earth Metal elements are all likely to increase over time. Fossil fuel isn't the only thing limited on this planet.

Regardless and granted this discussion is about the Jeep 4xe Hybrid PHEV and not a 200 or 300 kWh EV Tesla. But the battery capacities and cost per kWh are based on economic fact. Don't believe this, go buy whatever battery you care to own on the open market.

Also to help defend your position, if you are the DIY type of person who wouldn't mind voiding the battery warranty, there are currently 96 cells in the 17 kWh battery. It certainly is possible to replace each individual cell in order to keep the overall replacement cost to an absolute minimum. That would be about $20 per individual cell. But hey, going full electric is the goal, we may all end up soon being battery expert technicians. Changing cells will perhaps replace oil changes.

For Pete's sake let's be truthful rather than overly hopeful.

Jay

 

[jdubya421]

Common dude, they're here to save the environment because they leave a smaller carbon foot print.

Check out Engineering Explained's video on this.

This lets you see where the electricity in your state comes from.

In the end, they are Eco-groovy, usually.

 

[Oilburner]

"recyclable" and "potential for after-automotive use" are key terms here.
The fact that something could be recycled does not mean there is infrastructure to do it (yet) but more importantly is there motivation (profit) to do it?

 

[lightsout]

Please enlighten me on what comment was foolish. Regardless of a batteries life when it dies they become toxic waste. Name anything in this world that is recyclable that actually has a high percentage of it's waste properly recycled. As far as technology getting pretty familiar with it, going to school for it. I think you meant my understanding of reusable energy. I included in each post I didn't have an issue with an electric vehicle and I'll broaden that to reusable energy. I what I have stated each time is that I do not like the it's all "Green" B.S. Is it a better option long term? I don't know and didn't debated that. If you still would like to say that my comments about batteries and mass solar panels having devastating long terms effects foolish. Then I will stand by my foolish comments that they will have negative long term effects as well. I do agree that with the technical advancements in batters they are becoming pretty impressive.

I will gladly "ENLIGHTEN" you

This is for full electric:

To Build
Electric car 12.2 Tons CO2
Gas Equivalent 7.4 Tons CO2
Net loss 4.8 Tons

At 20K Miles
Electric car 14.6 Tons CO2
Gas 14.5 Tons CO2
Net Loss 0.1 Tons CO2

at 200K miles
Electric car 36 Tons CO2
Gas 78 Tons CO2
net gain 42 Tons CO2

Over all CO2 reduction from Electric 37.1 Tons CO2

As you can see that is significant. Electric is an investment into the future. Batteries can be recycled and repurposed. Recycled electric car batteries will become integral components in future non automotive energy storage.

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