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Just saw my first Jeep 4xe

HungryHound

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Your post/experience conflicts with nearly everything I've read as well as my own testing with Tesla cells and their output.
Tesla Model 3 drag times tested by battery %
100% charge = 11.4X
78% charge = 11.65
56% charge = 11.87
25% charge = 12.28


Now, the Model 3 weighs around 4,000 lbs, and using the calculator here:
https://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_horsepower_elapsed_time/horsepower_elapsed_time.php
They estimate running an 11.4 to a 12.2 quarter for a 4k lb car is a difference of 533 HP vs 435 HP (nearly 20% drop in HP). Yes, it's rough math, but 100% unbiased.

One of the many discussions on the Tesla forums of their power/torque dropping as the battery % declines:
https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/68867/model-s-acceleration-slower-as-battery-depletes

Ultimately it comes down to how the Jeep system is engineered, as far as how much overhead it has and how conservative it's tuned. However, I'd bet they're not over engineering it, due to it also having a 2.0 gas engine they're expecting most to use, given the low range, and it will lose power with each % of battery loss (more than the Tesla). Not only that, but probably up to 10% battery capacity with each 30,000 miles driven. We'll see, though! It's at least a step towards something I'd be interested in.
Like you said, it really depends on how FCA designed the system. Torque is not as important in a Tesla as it is in a Jeep, IMHO, because this vehicle is designed for off-road use. Proper use of voltage regulators can give you 100% torque to near-death battery levels.
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HungryHound

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I def did not expect this to go anywhere close to this. Maybe I havenā€™t been here too long and Iā€™m not as familiar with it here but I was by no means intending to be the first monkey who starting flinging poo.
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CT_LFC

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I think itā€™s great that this new hybrid is generating interest in a new market segment / new bunch of people for Jeep. The more people who buy Jeeps is a good thing in my view for the brand overall, and itā€™s expanding the Jeep family - the more the merrier!
Good point. The 4xe is not just for current owners who want to trade their current Jeep for one, but i'm sure there are plenty of Greta's out there who may now jump at buying one.
 

HungryHound

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I actually love the blue accents and am considering buying the interior trim pieces to stick on my Rubi.
First thing I'm doing to mine is replacing the front bumper since FCA wanted waaaaay too much for a steel bumper. Those cute blue tow hooks are going on the front of my emissions-deleted '75 CJ as a touch of irony.
 
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Mess262

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To be fair I honestly think that torque numbers are ā€œwhateverā€. With everything I did with my JK at no point was I wishing I had twice the torque. I did enjoy the small boost when I went from a 2010 with the 3.8 to the 2016 with 3.6 but for the abuse I put the 2016 through it handled it all like a champ. The big numbers on the diesel are just ā€œcoolā€ factor to me and more nice to know it is there if I need it. The 4xe is the same to me. It is a cool new platform with some neat perks and will have more perks for some and less for others. Is it going to save the planet? No. Will it make an impact? No. Will it make some people feel better about their impact on the earth? Certainly. Just as using paper straws does NOTHING to save the planet as they account for a fraction is a single percent of trash and one single known turtle tried snorting sea coke with one. You want to save the earth? Stop eating market seafood.
btw, if you do have any interest in ecology or earth impact I highly recommend ā€œSeaspiracyā€ on Netflix. Really opened my eyes to a lot of things and Iā€™m no treehugger, I drive a diesel
 

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HungryHound

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Maybe, we will get answers now that it's finally arriving. The specs for hp and to are the combine electric and gas. You won't get the full hp and torque unless both are operating at max output at the same time. This could also be limited by programming. For instance the electric motor has to match input speed to the gas motor. It may not be making full output to make this happen. I would like to see actual wheel dyno numbers. I am curious as to actual range also. Some people claim 16 to 17 mpg. some people clain 19to 22. This is on the same gas version. I can only imagine the disparity in the 4xe.
All that magic comes together in the transmission via clutches and the motor that replaces the torque converter. I'm really hoping that there will be a Tazer update that let's folks tweak those numbers higher.
 

HungryHound

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Also, there are ways to take advantage of the rebate even if you don't make enough, such as rolling a traditional IRA over to a Roth IRA, which requires taxes to be paid. The rebate can offset some or all of those taxes, depending on how much you roll over.
You could also sell some Game-Stop stock and write-off those profits.šŸ˜
 

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Very good points. We are in the camp (just preference as sometimes we would t realize the small income additions each month) that we over pay our taxes and then get a big refund at the end of the year with child credits and such. While not really a bonus as it is actually our money, it is nice to get a lump sum that we didnā€™t really need during the year to do whatever we end doing with it. I have never looked into the realities of the tax credits with hybrids but I thank you for schooling me a bit. Useful knowledge is always appreciated.
Otto, et., al.,

I haven't yet read the entire thread, but felt compelled to highlight some not so obvious things regarding this discussion.

First, I really like your quip for the Jeep Prius. While not technically spot on, it is still a good description of the 4xe concept.

Hybrids are certainly a much better implementation (currently) than full electrics simply due to the lack of energy available from batteries over any time metric other than immediately at full charge. Put simply, battery performance degrades so rapidly that they are neither feasible or reliable for anything, transportation-based, other than as a short-haul commuter with adequate charging infrastructure at both ends of the trip. Furthermore, the charging times are in the many, even tens of hours range unless your willing to invest (spend) for the really high-powered fast chargers that tend to regrettably hurt the battery's capacity in the long term. Thus degrading their usefulness even much quicker.

Also, many (if not the vast majority) don't realize the incredible replacement cost of the battery at the end of it's useful life. There are a lot of studies reflecting that with today's battery technology, a typical battery degrades it's overall total capacity about 6% per year. Given a tolerance of about one third (1/3) it's overall performance when new, that yields about a five year lifetime. Noting that this degradation is for both pure electrics and hybrids as well. Granted the hybrid can likely tolerate more degradation simply because it has the alternative ICE power plant to make up for the lack of available electrical power.

Regardless, when the time comes to the point where the battery can no longer perform at expected (or rather tolerable) output, the replacement costs are rather considerable. It's not atypical for around $30K for the all electric (really) large battery. That's practically a new vehicle cost just to keep the current car going. Hybrids with their smaller size likely will not be as expensive but even half or a third is still more than a total ICE engine replacement. But even if they are cheaper, the battery will need to be replaced at some point and that's a significant total cost of ownership responsibility. Clearly this will most certainly decrease the vehicle's overall value and be a factor towards any trade in.

Perhaps a two year lease may be the only viable use case. Drive it, then dump it before needing to worry about any further battery responsibility. Leave it for some unsuspecting used car fool.

Lastly, tax subsidies while seemingly a good way to lower your initial investment, is actually being paid for by all the rest of us. Not just spread the wealth idea but also spread the pain. Taxes must be collected to pay for any subsidy. While this appears to be good for you, it is a hidden but real burden on all of us other poor working schmucks who have their taxes increased to pay for your incentive. Would you still purchase it if not for the subsidy? Only when said vehicle can compete with alternatives evenly in the marketplace should it really truly succeed. For most electrics and hybrids that most likely would not (yet) happen with the current battery tech.

Wait! I'm not a total idiot. Subsidies are clearly a way to get traction and market momentum of any new product. And why would any intelligent manufacturer not use such a gift? It helps offset their overall expenses for selling their new thing. And of course it helps the buyer, so why not take advantage of it? Only a fool would say no. Clearly, that's by design.

However, any tax incentives are just smoke and mirrors. The true burben of financial implementation is just being forcefully spread around to the people who would much rather choose not to. How nice is that?

Everyone is clamoring that batteries must be used to save the planet, unfortunately very little concern is applied to how to save our collective financial well-beings. This new green tech is being forced down our throats while we just innocently discuss horsepower this and torque output that.

Yet better battery tech is clearly needed in our progression to wean ourselves away from carbon fuels. All I'm asking (and expecting) is to do it in a way that is responsible with all factors being considered (not just the environment). Are our human livelihoods not just as important? To many, clearly not.

The hybrid Jeep Prius is an interesting and logical step in the right direction. But if you are serious in wanting to purchase one please consider all of the hidden costs and subtle burdens. I don't believe that any of the manufacturers, government entities and especially not the media are highlighting any downside to battery ownership. Especially the real toxicity (heavy metals and poisons) to the environment when needing to recycle them. I hope that a black market doesn't emerge to cheaply bypass the cost of responsibly recycling these batteries properly. To do it right will be expensive.

Not trying to detail the program, I really do like the idea of hybrid solutions until battery technology (or hydrogen fuel cells) can truly compete. Train locomotives have all been hybrid for many decades. To me this is a good step toward a more responsible alternative. Jeep Prius (I mean 4xe) on...

Just some further food for thought.
Jay
 

Whaler27

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Dunno about torque production curves, but I canā€™t let the Prius reference go without mentioning the important safety difference. Even hybrid Jeepā€™s are safer than Priuses.

Priuses are dangerous, due to the poor visibility the driver has while wearing the mandatory paper bag over his head. Iā€™ll never drive one. :giggle:
 

mjcisme

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Regarding the tax credit comments earlier, I bought a Subaru phev in 2019. Tax liability was over $7500 for the year. At filing time my refund was to be ~$4500 due to overpayment. Instead it was over $9000 due to the $4,500 tax credit for the phev purchase of the Subaruā€™s battery size.
Looking forward to receiving my 4xe. New to the brand. Had a Bronco on order but delivery looked to be 2022. Didnā€™t want to wait so when I heard about the 4xe it was a sale.
Cheers!
 

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Mess262

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Theres an inverse relation between intelligence and the speed at which someone resorts to name-calling.
Whilst I agree with that I havenā€™t seen any name calling in here aside from me saying that I inadvertently ā€œtossed poopā€ calling it a Jeep Prius thus saying I was the poop tossing monkey and donā€™t think that qualifies as name calling. Lol.
i do agree though that we should all be above that despite the fact that we are all gluttons for punishment simply by owning a Jeep.
 

misanthrope

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Please provide your science please and not something you read from a liberal slanted social media post. Where are we seeing that these batteries are "nearly all" recyclable? Where are we seeing the demolition and destruction of these used batteries are going to be net zero? Where are we going to get all this "Green" energy to power all these EV's at a net zero? Folks that follow the herd, indeed, a dumb ass.

Sure do I believe the world is going to continue to develop EV tech, sure. I surely am not drinking the kool-aid thinking this is going to save the world and our climate.
A: you create a trap by pre-accusing any source I may use as "liberal slanted", so that you can dismiss any information I use as YOU see fit, creating a virtual straw man.
To address A, I give you B: use your own judgment to look into companies like Li-Cycle (building a $175M plant in upstate NY), et al who are using hybrid pyro/hydrometallurgical methods to reclaim up to 95% of all material used in the production of li-ion batteries.
And C: no one said anything about "Green energy" being a necessary function of EV success, as EVs are better for the environment over their lifespan than ICE vehicles with the current energy production in the US (here's a cute graphic from the decidedly non-liberal WSJ that may remind you of a cartoon: https://www.wsj.com/graphics/are-electric-cars-really-better-for-the-environment/#:~:text=EVs produce fewer emissions overall,counterparts, but there are caveats&text=Carmakers including General Motors Co,cleaner than gas-burning engines )
We're all grown ups here, and we can all do our own research. I won't be able to convince a denier no matter how many sources I use, just as I won't be intimidated no matter how many names they use or how aggressive their posts are. Following the herd is how most species survive.
Education is only valuable to those still willing to learn.
 
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Mess262

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Dunno about torque production curves, but I canā€™t let the Prius reference go without mentioning the important safety difference. Even hybrid Jeepā€™s are safer than Priuses.

Priuses are dangerous, due to the poor visibility the driver has while wearing the mandatory paper bag over his head. Iā€™ll never drive one. :giggle:
Safety is vastly improved for rear end collisions though in the Prius via the pile of reusable shopping bags in the trunk.
jeeps are extremely safe in my experience. My 2010 JK proved that to me. At 55mph tbone after they blew a stop sign. Seatbelt on and I didnā€™t even make contact with the airbags.
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Whilst I agree with that I havenā€™t seen any name calling in here aside from me saying that I inadvertently ā€œtossed poopā€ calling it a Jeep Prius thus saying I was the poop tossing monkey and donā€™t think that qualifies as name calling. Lol.
No different than people using the derogatory phrase ā€˜range anxietyā€™
 
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Mess262

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No different than people using the derogatory phrase ā€˜range anxietyā€™
Lol. Never heard of that but sounds like a real thing. Curious though, in what usage is that derogatory? I can see having that on an electric vehicle if you arenā€™t sure you have infrastructure to charge etc.
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